Which ADSB out option for me?

WannFly

WannFly

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might not do it right away, but I am exploring options since I hear the FAA $500 is going away soon. AOPA had installed GDL 90 UAT on my plane, the way I understand it, it doesn't meet 2020 mandate (someone please break my bubble and I will buy you a crate of beer, heck I will even pour it for you while I am flying the plane.. there are no regs around that ...)

so, on the classified I saw someone selling Appareo for a decent price. good company or bad don't know, but I live where they are, I can literally walk into their office and start yelling if things break.

GDL 90 is connected to a GMX 200 that shows me traffic and METAR and I have no idea if the MFD would integrate with Appareo. I have a SL70 transponder that's integrated with GNS 480 (and possibly MGX 200 or may be the GMX 200 gets the GPS Alt from 480).

what are my options? do I pretty much stick to Garmin since the panel is a garmin shop? GDL 90 doesn't have Bluetooth, so I cant get ADSB IN in my EFB without another handheld ADSB-IN unit...
also panel space might be an issue, from the pic it looks like the Appareo unit is bigger than SL70 and panel space is ... lets just say I don't have any.

thoughts?
 
Just scratching the surface Id say dump the SL70 and install a GTX345R in place of the GDL90.
 
I'd wait for the navworx
 
bnt83 said:
Just scratching the surface Id say dump the SL70 and install a GTX345R in place of the GDL90.
Click to expand...
that's way too much spending when I can just use ADSB out to meet the mandate and get a handheld ADSB IN for EFB and already have the GDL 90 that will still work for ADSB IN for the MFD
 
WannFly said:
that's way too much spending when I can just use ADSB out to meet the mandate and get a handheld ADSB IN for EFB and already have the GDL 90 that will still work for ADSB IN for the MFD
Click to expand...

That's just it, the wiring should be mostly identical to the GDL90 plus you won't have to buy a portable and haul it around. The SL70 is showing "no repair services available" on the Garmin website so Id have a hard time leaving that in there.

A panel mounted 335 or 345 would probably have more ramp appeal when you sell than the SL70, if it will fit.
 
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bnt83 said:
That's just it, the wiring should be mostly identical to the GDL90 plus you won't have to buy a portable and haul it around. The SL70 is showing "no repair services available" on the SL70 so Id have a hard time leaving that in there.
Click to expand...

that's a great point. ... thanks for pointing that out
 
I'm curious what altitude encoder you have and what all it is interfaced to. The Navworx units will not accept parallel (Gray code) pressure altitude from older encoders like the old SSD120. The book also does not show that Navworx can receive it from the GNS480 or the SL70 making it look like a direct line to the pressure altitude encoder is required. A lotta planes will need a new encoder to work with Navworx.
 
A major drawback of the GTX3x5R stuff is if the 480 dies, you loose transponder control. That could be a big headache later when the 480 is finally retired and not repairable, youll need another GPS to control the GTX-3x5R remote transponder. That could be long after you sell it or during your ownership, just another unknown.
 
I have to look into the books, I have been hurried under AD, manuals, POH and more manuals for past 3 weeks...still lot of cluelessness in my life...

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
 
bnt83 said:
I'm curious what altitude encoder you have and what all it is interfaced to. The Navworx units will not accept parallel (Gray code) pressure altitude from older encoders like the old SSD120. The book also does not show that Navworx can receive it from the GNS480 or the SL70 making it look like a direct line to the pressure altitude encoder is required. A lotta planes will need a new encoder to work with Navworx.
Click to expand...

Blind encoders with rs232 outputs are cheap, like as in a couple of hundred clams. If you don't have a serializer, you'll need one for any ads-b install.
 
James331 said:
The stealth mode is the deal breaker, huge saftey feature no one else offers
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Not quite. Any UAT box can have the feature if the manufacturer wishes to devolope it. If fact the FreeFlight Ranger does.
 
bnt83 said:
Not quite. Any UAT box can have the feature if the manufacturer wishes to devolope it. If fact the FreeFlight Ranger does.
Click to expand...

If they can't or don't have it, still a major safety issue in my opinion.

So the free flight ranger has a random identification it sends when set to 1200?
 
Chip Sylverne said:
Blind encoders with rs232 outputs are cheap, like as in a couple of hundred clams. If you don't have a serializer, you'll need one for any ads-b install.
Click to expand...

The all-in-one ADS-B & transponders, such as Garmin and Appero sells, can reuse the existing encoder if Gray code.
 
Note that if you install a UAT into an aircraft with a mode S transponder, any anonymous mode the UAT has is really a useless feature.
 
which IN/OUT unit displays traffic & weather on my 530W and WIFIs data to WingX?
 
Checkout_my_Six said:
which IN/OUT unit displays traffic & weather on my 530W and WIFIs data to WingX?
Click to expand...

Freeflight Systems RANGR FDL-978-XVR with the FWF-125 WiFi module, or the KGX-130 with the optional WiFi module. To receive traffic on the X30W series you will need to use the ARINC 429 traffic input to the X30W.
 
bnt83 said:
The all-in-one ADS-B & transponders, such as Garmin and Appero sells, can reuse the existing encoder if Gray code.
Click to expand...

Why would you want to? For the time it would take to to install the harness you could install a modern blind encoder, run a couple rs232 outs and be done, have a solid state modern unit and probably be money ahead. Heck, with the Garmin the encoder plugs right into the xponder, no harness required.

Encoding altimeters are obsolete, and getting hard to repair.
 
Chip Sylverne said:
Why would you want to? For the time it would take to to install the harness you could install a modern blind encoder, run a couple rs232 outs and be done, have a solid state modern unit and probably be money ahead. Heck, with the Garmin the encoder plugs right into the xponder, no harness required.

Encoding altimeters are obsolete, and getting hard to repair.
Click to expand...

One less thing to buy. Encoders don't fail often and are typically plug & play with newer ones like the SSD120 series.

I agree with you though. I put in a brand new 345 with new everything hooked to it including encoder, all new tubing, coax and wire.
 
Axtel4 said:
Freeflight Systems RANGR FDL-978-XVR with the FWF-125 WiFi module, or the KGX-130 with the optional WiFi module. To receive traffic on the X30W series you will need to use the ARINC 429 traffic input to the X30W.
Click to expand...
...and weather on the x30W?
 
I have an Aviat Husky with a King 76A with no WAAS GPS. I want the least expensive option that will satisfy the OUT requirement. I want to use my existing transponder antenna. I will need a GPS WAAS antenna (on top of aircraft right?).

I think I prefer UAT due to the surveillance issues.

As an aside. I have the old style battery ELT with just transmission on 121.5. I suppose Im going to have to get the new style (is that going to be required?). But that might need to be done too. Maybe not right away. I think I will need the WAAS GPS signal for it too.
 
WannFly said:
might not do it right away, but I am exploring options since I hear the FAA $500 is going away soon. AOPA had installed GDL 90 UAT on my plane, the way I understand it, it doesn't meet 2020 mandate (someone please break my bubble and I will buy you a crate of beer, heck I will even pour it for you while I am flying the plane.. there are no regs around that ...)

so, on the classified I saw someone selling Appareo for a decent price. good company or bad don't know, but I live where they are, I can literally walk into their office and start yelling if things break.

GDL 90 is connected to a GMX 200 that shows me traffic and METAR and I have no idea if the MFD would integrate with Appareo. I have a SL70 transponder that's integrated with GNS 480 (and possibly MGX 200 or may be the GMX 200 gets the GPS Alt from 480).

what are my options? do I pretty much stick to Garmin since the panel is a garmin shop? GDL 90 doesn't have Bluetooth, so I cant get ADSB IN in my EFB without another handheld ADSB-IN unit...
also panel space might be an issue, from the pic it looks like the Appareo unit is bigger than SL70 and panel space is ... lets just say I don't have any.

thoughts?
Click to expand...

GDL90 was part of the avionics suite that Garmin developed for the FAA Capstone project (ADS-B). The project paid for installation of ADS-B into private aircraft for development testing. The FAA contracted with FreeFlight for a replacement to the GDL90 for owners of the original program to make the system complaint.

FreeFlight is a slide in replacement for the GDL90. It my understanding its plug and play which will save you a ton on labor compared to any other solution. Plus it will work with the GMX200. This is the best solution for your setup.
 
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coloradobluesky said:
I have an Aviat Husky with a King 76A with no WAAS GPS. I want the least expensive option that will satisfy the OUT requirement. I want to use my existing transponder antenna. I will need a GPS WAAS antenna (on top of aircraft right?).

I think I prefer UAT due to the surveillance issues.

As an aside. I have the old style battery ELT with just transmission on 121.5. I suppose Im going to have to get the new style (is that going to be required?). But that might need to be done too. Maybe not right away. I think I will need the WAAS GPS signal for it too.
Click to expand...

Yes, you will need a GPS antenna on top.

If you absolutely want to reuse the existing belly mounted transponder antenna you are forced to replace the existing KT76A with something like a GTX-335, Appero Stratus ESG. Other options that do not have an internal GPS receiver in the transponder panel unit would need an external remote mounted GPS receiver (think of it like a blind altitude encoder but for GPS) in addition to the transponder, like the KT74. I can't see the KT74 or other units like it being cheaper than the all-in-one panel mounted transponders if you have no existing acceptable GPS.
 
macunix said:
GDL90 was part of the avionics suite that Garmin developed for the FAA Capstone project (ADS-B). The project paid for installation of ADS-B into private aircraft for development testing. The FAA contracted with FreeFlight for a replacement to the GDL90 for owners of the original program to make the system complaint.

FreeFlight is a slide in replacement for the GDL90. It my understanding its plug and play which will save you a ton on labor compared to any other solution. Plus it will work with the GMX200. This is the best solution for your setup.
Click to expand...
Thanks much. I will look into this

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
 
macunix said:
GDL90 was part of the avionics suite that Garmin developed for the FAA Capstone project (ADS-B). The project paid for installation of ADS-B into private aircraft for development testing. The FAA contracted with FreeFlight for a replacement to the GDL90 for owners of the original program to make the system complaint.

FreeFlight is a slide in replacement for the GDL90. It my understanding its plug and play which will save you a ton on labor compared to any other solution. Plus it will work with the GMX200. This is the best solution for your setup.
Click to expand...

Just wanted to point out that the wires to the GDL90 would be pretty easy to pin into a new connector for a new box, not a big deal. You should not hjave to run any new wires.

The FreeFlight units will not fit the rack for the GDL90, which is 7.3 inches tall, 11.4 inches long by 2.99 inches wide. None of the FreeFlight units appear to be rack mounted so not a slide in replacement.
 
The GDL90 uses two connectors, power & ground/other runs through a 15 pin connector and the ARINC 429/other through a 37 pin connector. I don't see the 15 pin connector on any of the FreeFlight units.
 
bnt83 said:
Just wanted to point out that the wires to the GDL90 would be pretty easy to pin into a new connector for a new box, not a big deal. You should not hjave to run any new wires.

The FreeFlight units will not fit the rack for the GDL90, which is 7.3 inches tall, 11.4 inches long by 2.99 inches wide. None of the FreeFlight units appear to be rack mounted so not a slide in replacement.
Click to expand...
the GDL 90 is a remotely mounted
 
WannFly said:
the GDL 90 is a remotely mounted
Click to expand...

I was aware of that. Since all the boxes typically use the same intefaces or nearly the same there is a good chance existing wires can be reused on another remote mounted box that replaces the GDL90 if you go that way, such as the GDL88, GTX335R or GTX345R. Note that it looks like they would have to pull the GDL90 connectos off the harness, strip wires and crimp new contacts on (of a different size) to fit the connectors for GDL88/GTX335R/GTX345R boxes. This shouldn't take much more than a couple hours to get farmiliar with drawing, do the work, verify its correct and move onto the next task.

The panel mount GTX335/345 and the Appereo are bigger than the SL70 so they may not fit even if you wanted one.
 
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bnt83 said:
The panel mount GTX335/345 and the Appereo are bigger than the SL70 so they may not fit even if you wanted one.
Click to expand...

yeah and I have absolutely no place in my panel unless I rearrange a bunch of stuff, even then I have doubts
 
WannFly said:
yeah and I have absolutely no place in my panel unless I rearrange a bunch of stuff, even then I have doubts
Click to expand...

One strange aspect, the GDL90 appears to be a UAT box with diversity, if you want to maintain diversity its gonna cost even more.

Diversity --Top and bottom mounted UAT antennas
Non-diversity --Only bottom mounted antenna

I can't see spending extra money on a box with diversity myself. My non-diversity GTX345 seems to receive data from airborne targets well above me without the extra antenna without issue.
 
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weirdjim said:
I can't speak to Garmin, but Appareo can use EITHER Gray code OR RS232.

Jim
Click to expand...

Garmin is the same.

The only reason I can think of a need for Gray Code is altitude clocks/minders are mostly all gray code only. Of course most new transponders have the altitude reminder system built-in so an existing one using gray code could become redundant.
 
bnt83 said:
One strange aspect, the GDL90 appears to be a UAT box with diversity, if you want to maintain diversity its gonna cost even more.

Diversity --Top and bottom mounted UAT antennas
Non-diversity --Only bottom mounted antenna

I can't see spending extra money on a box with diversity myself. My non-diversity GTX345 seems to receive data from airborne targets well above me without the extra antenna without issue.
Click to expand...
first time aircraft owner and new to all these. this plane was owned by Air Safety Institute for many years and they had put all kind of avionics to run it as a test bed. now I am going crazy trying to find out something that will talk all every piece of equipment. someone in this thread mentioned the SL70 is out of support / repair.. so if that fails I will have a heck of time to find another transponder that will fit in that slot and talk to GNS 480 and whatever else its tied to
 
WannFly said:
first time aircraft owner and new to all these. this plane was owned by Air Safety Institute for many years and they had put all kind of avionics to run it as a test bed. now I am going crazy trying to find out something that will talk all every piece of equipment. someone in this thread mentioned the SL70 is out of support / repair.. so if that fails I will have a heck of time to find another transponder that will fit in that slot and talk to GNS 480 and whatever else its tied to
Click to expand...

That isn't easy. There are mode A/C transponders that will fit into a standard instrument hole if the SL70 dies after you have the ADS-B out all taken care of, in the case you decided to keep the SL70, the Sandia STX165 for instance. That assums you have an empty hole you would sacrifice for a transponder.

Sometimes I feel the more I know the harder the decision gets lol.

I believe the trig TT22 is ads-b out compliant and will fit in an instrument hole.
 
bnt83 said:
That isn't easy. There are mode A/C transponders that will fit into a standard instrument hole if the SL70 dies after you have the ADS-B out all taken care of, in the case you decided to keep the SL70, the Sandia STX165 for instance. That assums you have an empty hole you would sacrifice for a transponder.

Sometimes I feel the more I know the harder the decision gets lol.

I believe the trig TT22 is ads-b out compliant and will fit in an instrument hole.
Click to expand...
Thanks much for your inputs... I will keep researching. in no hurry. I fly in Class Delta and there are a bunch of guys working on cheaper solutions.. so will see how some of those pans out
 
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