Where to brokers find “cheap” planes?

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Johnbo

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Johnbo
Outside of the occasional estate sale I’m still a bit fascinated by the existence of airplane brokers peddling common planes going for well under $100k. Why would anyone need help selling a 182, 172, Cherokee, etc in this market and why would they pay the high fees (at least as a %) for such transactions? Aside from their own website don’t brokers end up listing on the usual online aircraft listing sites?

regardless of why they exist they do seem to be able to get their hands on quite a few planes and I’m curious as to how.

Are these folks cold calling owners based on the FAA registry to see if they randomly find someone wanting / needing to sell? Are they monitoring forums and Facebook groups? It seems like they are able to find some nice machines only to mark them up without adding any real value.
 
Johnbo said:
Outside of the occasional estate sale I’m still a bit fascinated by the existence of airplane brokers peddling common planes going for well under $100k. Why would anyone need help selling a 182, 172, Cherokee, etc in this market and why would they pay the high fees (at least as a %) for such transactions? Aside from their own website don’t brokers end up listing on the usual online aircraft listing sites?
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If you've ever had to deal with tire kicking airplane "buyers" you'll learn real quick why some people prefer to have a broker deal with the problems. Also, some people are just busy and don't want the hassle. I've been involved with the acquisition and sale of quite a few airplanes for one friend/client over the years because he wants someone to screen the buyers and sellers for him.

Johnbo said:
regardless of why they exist they do seem to be able to get their hands on quite a few planes and I’m curious as to how.

Are these folks cold calling owners based on the FAA registry to see if they randomly find someone wanting / needing to sell? Are they monitoring forums and Facebook groups? It seems like they are able to find some nice machines only to mark them up without adding any real value.
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At a minimum, some do exactly what you describe. Some also go to airports and cruise through all the tied down airplanes looking for things they think they can buy and profit on. I got stopped by one guy down in Arizona a few years back when I was flying a POS Baron I borrowed from a guy for a family trip. The guy thought he'd be able to talk me out of it for cheap. I haven't seen anything listed by him for the last year or so but you used to see airplanes being brokered by him on Barnstormers somewhat frequently.
 
I have never gotten the impression that brokers actually own any of these planes, with the exception of Van aborted (lol phone autocorrect, I’m leaving that one), who ends up with most of their planes from trades. I think the vast majority are just representing other people’s birds.

The thing I’ve always wondered is what are the fees to sell like this and how is it really feasible from the broker’s point of view. I mean... you have real estate agents scraping it out over half million dollar / million dollar listings - how do you make a living selling $60k planes? It just doesn’t seem like there’s enough value there.
 
I get a lot of cards in the mail offering to buy my 182. The plane I bought from a broker was previously a trade in. I figured a lot of estate sales too. The successful brokers keep their secret sauce secret.
 
Johnbo said:
Why would anyone need help selling a 182, 172, Cherokee, etc in this market and why would they pay the high fees (at least as a %) for such transactions?
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I was told by a sales-guy for a (high-fee) broker that their typical customer is not somebody who wants to talk to buyers himself. It's somebody who just wants to get the thing sold and receive a check. They don't want to deal with buyers, take calls, show the plane, deal with questions and negotiations, make arrangements to move the plane for a pre-buy, or any of that. So they hire a broker to take care of all that for them.

So who would do that? Somebody who is too old to sell the plane himself. Or too busy with work. Or too busy with life -- or alternatively somebody's who altogether done with life (as Brad mentioned, estate sales -- the widow can't deal with selling the old man's plane after he dies.)
 
NoHeat said:
I was told by a sales-guy for a (high-fee) broker that their typical customer is not somebody who wants to talk to buyers himself. It's somebody who just wants to get the thing sold and receive a check. They don't want to deal with buyers, take calls, show the plane, deal with questions and negotiations, make arrangements to move the plane for a pre-buy, or any of that. So they hire a broker to take care of all that for them.

So who would do that? Somebody who is too old to sell the plane himself. Or too busy with work. Or too busy with life -- or alternatively somebody's who altogether done with life (as Brad mentioned, estate sales -- the widow can't deal with selling the old man's plane after he dies.)
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NoHeat is correct. I have 2 friends who are brokers. They buy and sell amazing planes you will never see in an ad. By amazing I mean beautiful planes to barn finds, but they buy them right. One of them has never had a plane more than a week.

Their secret is an amazing rolodex and relationships. They never send cards looking for planes either.

Think buying a $75K plane in place, as-is, no-prebuy, no hassle, just a check right now for $40K-50K, then sell it within 1-2 weeks for for $55K-60K.
 
NordicDave said:
NoHeat is correct. I have 2 friends who are brokers. They buy and sell amazing planes you will never see in an ad. By amazing I mean beautiful planes to barn finds, but they buy them right. One of them has never had a plane more than a week.

Their secret is an amazing rolodex and relationships. They never send cards looking for planes either.

Think buying a $75K plane in place, as-is, no-prebuy, no hassle, just a check right now for $40K-50K, then sell it within 1-2 weeks for for $55K-60K.
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That makes them dealers, not brokers. The broker just brings a buyer and a seller together and facilitates the transaction in exchange for a commission.


And yes, the secret sauce is secret. Being in business for a while and having a reputation of not being a scoundrel is a big part of it. There are plenty of owners who don't want to spend much time on the process, either selling or buying. There are also market participants like widows and banks who dont have the expertise to conduct an aircraft sale themself.
 
The next logical question would then be...Who are the good brokers in aviation?
 
My broker found me a good deal on a Bonanza from another broker before it went on the market. Since I sold my Cessna through the broker, he was able to arrange it as a trade so that I did not have to pay 6% sales tax on trade in value of my Cessna.

I found a great plane I would not have found otherwise and I think I even saved money by doing that. (At least that's what I tell my wife).
Also, I have little stomach for dealing with phone shoppers, tire kickers and low ballers. My broker MORE than earned his commission.
 
jallen0 said:
The next logical question would then be...Who are the good brokers in aviation?
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I'm sure you'd get a bunch of replies to your question but I know this guy and he does get great finds through his years of being in the field and his extensive contacts.

Todd can be a little rough by his own admission and he suffers no fools but he does work with serious buyers and sellers. https://aircraftmerchants.com/cf/
 
Some of the brokers may be part timers, too. I have a friend who has a presumably high paying day job, be buys and sells planes pretty regularly. If he finds something he can get for well below market value he buys it with cash, flies it for a few weeks or months, then unloads it for more than he paid for it. If he doesn't have an "extra" plane at any given moment he flies his Cub or his Bo, those aren't for sale.
 
I think I overpaid for my Mooney by about $5k. I was happy to pay it in order to trade it for my Cherokee. I can sell stuff, but I'd rather not. I'll bet the guy with whom I traded felt he spent a few grand extra on my Cherokee, but was happy to do so in order to not have to put up with selling his Mooney. Selling airplanes is a pain. I'll do it, but I can understand why folks won't. As far as how a broker can make money, it's pretty easy actually. Answer a few phone calls, make a few more. It's easy if someone else is paying for relocations and inspections. I imagine a broker can handle a lot of airplanes. Maybe you only make an AMU off each one, but it adds up.
 
The next time I sell, I'll use a broker. I like buying airplanes, but I can't stand selling airplanes. When selling you get too many phone calls from guys that just wanna talk airplanes, or don't have a license, or want a free airplane ride, or want to offer you less than 50% the plane's value, etc.
 
E-Bay.. Craig's list
 
Tom-D said:
E-Bay.. Craig's list
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Johnbo said:
Are these folks
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The really good brokers/dealers run in different circles than the general market. Some specialize in specific brands or types. Regardless what they sell they seem to always find the great deals. I did some evaluations on a referral for one particular gifted helicopter broker who appeared to trip over one deal after another no matter where he went. When I asked him his secret he'd smile and simply say "F'n magic."
 
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Bell206 said:
The really good brokers/dealers run in different circles than the general market. Some specialize in specific brands or types. Regardless what they sell they seem to always find the great deals. I did some evaluations on a referral for one particular gifted helicopter broker who appeared to trip over one deal after another no matter where he went. When I asked him his secret he'd smile and simply say "F'n magic."
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I think the magic is working really hard for a really long time. Like most agents / brokers, it takes forever to get going but then it starts to snowball.
 
Johnbo said:
Why would anyone need help selling a 182, 172, Cherokee, etc in this market and why would they pay the high fees
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No idea ...

Weekend Warrior said:
The next time I sell, I'll use a broker. I like buying airplanes, but I can't stand selling airplanes. When selling you get too many phone calls from guys that just wanna talk airplanes, or don't have a license, or want a free airplane ride, or want to offer you less than 50% the plane's value, etc.
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Sold my Tiger in 6 hours on Barnstormers .... second caller sent a contract (as did #'s 3-7 in case he failed). Pulled the ad immediately the first day as all 8 of the first callers were EXTREMELY interested and hoping the initial contract would fall through.

Tried BUYING an RV that was listed in Illinois for sale for MONTHS, but the broker wouldn't allow engine start or even pulling it out of the common hangar. No access to the owner either ... it never sold. It re-listed after I bought mine by the owner without a broker, so I called and told him I had attempted to contact him for purchase ... the broker never passed the info. Broker was blocking a pre-buy also ...
 
I often imagined it something like this: the tire kicker check out the planes in the ads and the ones on tie-downs with the for sale signs. The good brokers/dealers snap up the planes inside the hangars before they ever get listed on the market.
 
Dana said:
"Comes with boxes of spare parts, the remaining oil in 55 gallon drum, estimating about 35 gallons left."

If you need to buy oil in 55 gallon drums... :eek:
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because they use 65 weight.
 
Johnbo said:
Are these folks cold calling owners based on the FAA registry ...
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I think it's mostly word of mouth. I was quite satisfied with Cleo Chamberlain (of chamberlainaviationsales.com) when I was buying a C-150. Of course, I refer her to friends, especially in NM and AZ. Since she owns an airport, she can actually keep the airplane parked there and handle the showings. Although, I suspect she's retired now.
 
I think you need to also think about the clientele who buy such toys. Some live dangerously and run into hard times and need cash NOW. Hmmm my Mooney I’m $65k into is worth low 50’s if I want to dick the dog for weeks waiting on contracts and inspections or Joe Blow Broker will get me $43k cashiers check in 72hrs after sees it. Easy choice if you’re in dire straights.


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