Where do I start?

C

Cafeene

Filing Flight Plan
Joined
Oct 31, 2013
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20
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North Texas
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Display name:
Cafeene
Okay, so I'm 23, I've worked security and the oilfield for the past 5 years. My rigged got laid over and I got laid-off and went back into security. I don't like working security and I have been trying to decide what I want to do for the rest of my life. I'm almost certain I want to be a pilot, but I have know idea where to even start I found a pilot school very close to where I live, with USaviation. I'm not well off I barely make ends meet when it comes to bills, I don't have a degree (I dropped out of college for automotive). Is there anyway to become a pilot in my situation? (Usaviation accepts financial aid). I would love to chat with a CFI to see what their experience has been like up to this point and just kind of give me some pointers.
 
take a discovery flight, see if you even like it. if you like it and get hooked immediately (like many of us) then you'll find a way to make it happen.
 
Believe me I'm digging through couch cushions looking for the 79$ for that first discovery flight. When I was little I lived by a farm airport with mostly crop dusters and the guy that owned it would take me with him crop dusting some times and let me touch stuff. I've been hooked since, just until recently didn't think it would ever be possible.
 
If you're having to scrape up money for a discovery flight, you're gonna need a hell of a game plan. I'm not trying to discourage you, just being realistic. My recommendation would be to move in with mom and dad if that is a possibility and save up some money. Keep in mind that it could cost up to 50k to get to where you could get a menial flying job. I'm sure the other members will have some more productive advice. Do what you need to do to make it happen if that's what you really want.
 
Thanks Fox-three, I'm sure my mother would be thrilled if I moved back home but if I did that I wouldn't be anywhere near a flight school. I feel like 50k would be a very worthwhile investment for something that I have dreamed of even if I had to take a loan for it. On the flip side is it possible to maintain a full time job while going to these flight schools? I currently work 5 days a week with tues and weds off. Would it be possible to attend a school on those off days?
 
Cafeene said:
Thanks Fox-three, I'm sure my mother would be thrilled if I moved back home but if I did that I wouldn't be anywhere near a flight school. I feel like 50k would be a very worthwhile investment for something that I have dreamed of even if I had to take a loan for it. On the flip side is it possible to maintain a full time job while going to these flight schools? I currently work 5 days a week with tues and weds off. Would it be possible to attend a school on those off days?
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Absolutely, CFI's are generally willing to work around your schedule to fit you in. When I was training for my PPL, I only flew about once a month for 2 years. I was in somewhat the same situation you were in; I was 16 years old and didn't have a dime to my name. I wouldn't just assume there are no flight schools near your hometown. They are everywhere. Where are you living now?
 
I currently live in North Texas in the Sherman area home airfield is KGYI my folks live in a very remote town about 3 hours from here and not anything close enough to consider, plus I'd have to quit my current job and leave myself more broke.
 
Don't get a loan. Since you are working a non career job see if you can get a job at an airport that has flight training. Even if you don't get much of an employee break you will get opportunities flight academy hamburger will never see. The extra time it might take will be repaid by the connections forged and lack of crippling loans. Never forget not having student loans means you will have more opportunity to chase quality flight time.
 
Thanks for the advice Greg! Also I've read just about everywhere that a degree is pretty much required for any major airline commercial pilot, how true is this and why?
 
Cafeene said:
Thanks for the advice Greg! Also I've read just about everywhere that a degree is pretty much required for any major airline commercial pilot, how true is this and why?
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I think most of the mainline carriers require a degree. (American, United, US Airways, Delta) However, many of the regionals do not. (Air Wisconsin, Piedmont, SkyWest)
 
Thanks once again for the information. Another question, would financing through the flight school be more or less taking out a loan or is it another thing all together? A monthly payment seems like something doable for me since my pickup is now paid off.
 
Everybody I have ever talked to has warned me against getting financing through an aviation company. Everyone tells me that if I am going to get a loan, rates will almost always be better through the bank. One of my CFI's said he is paying about $230 towards a bank loan per month. (50k over 20 years)
 
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Holy crap! That's pretty intense. If you don't mind me asking where and how are you doing your ppl?
 
Cafeene said:
Holy crap! That's pretty intense. If you don't mind me asking where and how are you doing your ppl?
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I got my PPL my sophomore year in college and am now in my senior year working on my instrument rating. I'm in Newport News, Virginia flying out of the local FBO. I basically just worked a part-time job and paid for flight training little-by-little. I started when I was 15, solo'd when I was 16, and got my license when I was 20. If you have the money up front, you can realistically get your PPL in a few weeks. I didn't have that luxury but still made it work. I'm sure you can make it work too.

Now I just have to figure out how to pay for my commercial, multi, CFI, etc, etc...:mad2:
 
Oilfield experience? Road-trip to North Dakota and pick up another job. Save money while working for a year. No loans needed for quite a bit of flight training.
 
Have you looked into a flight club at KGYI?
 
Clark1961 said:
Oilfield experience? Road-trip to North Dakota and pick up another job. Save money while working for a year. No loans needed for quite a bit of flight training.
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Well ND was my option when I got laid-off and I have some friends up there right now and well uhh no thanks to -40 degree weather I'll stick to west texas deserts. If I would not have been laid off oilfield would be perfect for getting a pilots license I mean lots of money and 14 days working and 14 days not working plenty of time to get hours and plenty of money to do it wish I could have stayed on.
 
Cafeene said:
Okay, so I'm 23, I've worked security and the oilfield for the past 5 years. My rigged got laid over and I got laid-off and went back into security. I don't like working security and I have been trying to decide what I want to do for the rest of my life. I'm almost certain I want to be a pilot, but I have know idea where to even start I found a pilot school very close to where I live, with USaviation. I'm not well off I barely make ends meet when it comes to bills, I don't have a degree (I dropped out of college for automotive). Is there anyway to become a pilot in my situation? (Usaviation accepts financial aid). I would love to chat with a CFI to see what their experience has been like up to this point and just kind of give me some pointers.
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Is this US Aviation headquarted in Denton, TX? (www.usaviation.aero)
 
Cafeene said:
Well ND was my option when I got laid-off and I have some friends up there right now and well uhh no thanks to -40 degree weather I'll stick to west texas deserts. If I would not have been laid off oilfield would be perfect for getting a pilots license I mean lots of money and 14 days working and 14 days not working plenty of time to get hours and plenty of money to do it wish I could have stayed on.
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If you can't handle the cold then go off-shore GOM. Labor demand is a bit different but there is still regular turn-over. Jack-ups, barges, and submersibles are just tightly packed land rigs with a marine component added for all purposes practical. Floaters are a much different world with higher pay and bigger iron. It does help to have a 601 area code to get into that world...
 
Clark1961 said:
If you can't handle the cold then go off-shore GOM. Labor demand is a bit different but there is still regular turn-over. Jack-ups, barges, and submersibles are just tightly packed land rigs with a marine component added for all purposes practical. Floaters are a much different world with higher pay and bigger iron. It does help to have a 601 area code to get into that world...
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The problem with offshore is they require a minimum 2 years exp to be considered and I don't have that much time in think 6 months which is still considered worm in the oilfield and won't even land you a job with the big companies.
 
Badger said:
Have you looked into a flight club at KGYI?
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Unfortunately, there isn't one. Or if there is, they are very quiet about it.

US aviation is a good outfit. I got my PPL with them in Denton (part 61). But they have a very heavy focus on foreign students. I have no information on their depth of contacts with the US carriers to arrange job interviews once their US based students finish the program.

I agree with others about doing all that is needed to avoid the debt. Delay a bit getting a college degree going at the local community college while at the same time earning as much income as possible to bank for the flight training.
 
Cafeene said:
The problem with offshore is they require a minimum 2 years exp to be considered and I don't have that much time in think 6 months which is still considered worm in the oilfield and won't even land you a job with the big companies.
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Keep digging, you'll find the bottom eventually. :rofl: All sorts of ways around the experience specified but ya gotta get past the HR folks. I've seen folks with a few weeks experience make a hand while other folks with a year or more in are still wormy. All that is up to you.

Of course I really don't know what I'm talking about or anything, I just run operations for a small oil & gas company.:rolleyes2:
 
Whatever you do stay away from loans. You need freedom to move and to work low paying crap jobs to build time. Loans will kill that. Why don't you head up to ND in the spring and work through the fall, then winter living super cheap in FL or some such fly away all the oil money if you aren't finished go back again next spring. Seems like a long time when you are 23 but it isn't and avoiding the loans is number one.
 
I know that they run one of those pipeline programs for American eagle, I don't know what the success rate of it is though, they claim 97%. Basically aside from the discovery flight I'm looking for a way to just overall get myself in the air, as quickly and as (dare I say) cheaply as possible. Right now I know that it seems like a pipe dream, however I do work for a company that allows for endless advancement, and I think ultimately I'd like to become one of their pilots.
 
Clark1961 said:
Keep digging, you'll find the bottom eventually. :rofl: All sorts of ways around the experience specified but ya gotta get past the HR folks. I've seen folks with a few weeks experience make a hand while other folks with a year or more in are still wormy. All that is up to you.

Of course I really don't know what I'm talking about or anything, I just run operations for a small oil & gas company.:rolleyes2:
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If your offering me a job then I'm sold, (unless it's damn cold) but I don't know anyway around the exp reqs, it was a nightmare just for me to get on with splatterson.
 
Something else that needs considering before you get started digging a deep debt hole... Can you pass the medical standards?

Some important questions on the forms that could nix your plans right off are:

18m. Any mental disorders of any sort; depression, anxiety, etc. [and I think being tagged as ADD fits here. So if any of your permanent record has a doctor, teacher, administrator, parent, etc, saying you were ADD as a kid and/or had you taking ADD meds, this is a yes. -AM88]

18o. Alcohol dependence or abuse

18v. Do you have any history of (1) any arrest(s) and/or conviction(s) involving driving while intoxicated by, while impaired by, or while under the influence of alcohol or a drug; or (2) history of any arrest(s), and/or conviction(s), and/ore administrative action(s) involving an offense(s) which resulted in the denial, suspension, cancellation, or revocation of driving privileges or which resulted in attendance at an educational or rehabilitation program?

18w. Do you have a history of nontrafic conviction(s)? (including misdemeanors or felonies)​

If the answer to any of these above is yes, then they are the larger and periodically the more difficult landmines to deal with. While a yes answer to any might not totally squash your dream of flying professionally, there will be additional time, energy, and cash required to deal with this just to get your medical. Who knows how having a DUI or being diagnosed at age 8 by your pediatrician as ADD might affect your ability to get on with an airline or freight carrier like FedEx, UPS, and DHL.
 
Nope, most of these are the same requirements to being armed security, only thing I'm worried about is my parents health record my father was a bad diabetic and I don't know if that will affect me any. I have no history of any glucose problems though I've been tested for that all my life.
 
Cafeene said:
I know that they run one of those pipeline programs for American eagle
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Yeah, but AMR/American Airlines/American Eagle have all had their share of economic hell in the last several years. I would not want to bank my future career on one carrier.

And the success rate should be clarified. Just because they ALWAYS get you into an interview with the hiring authority does not mean you automatically get a job. Or if you get the job, you get something that pays any more than survival wages (with no extra to pay down the debt).

Consider something else.... what if you get well into the program (and the debt) and then decide that this is not the career for you? Now you have the big debt, but may go back to Day Zero as far as gaining training and experience to get a well paying job.

The last is to not to say don't pursue a flying career, but to say going for it is not to be taken lightly. It's not the glamorous career my father had in the 60's to the 80's. And it takes lots and lots of time plus patience for the seniority system to eventually allow you high enough on the ladder to make a higher than average salary.
 
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By the way... I'll put the offer out to ya to take you flying someday if you can make it down to Denton. I'm currently VFR only, so it will need to be good weather and we'll need to get a block of time on the club airplane. But you'll get some exposure to flying. And you can use the trip here to visit US Aviation (whose building is real close to the club hangar)
 
AggieMike88 said:
By the way... I'll put the offer out to ya to take you flying someday if you can make it down to Denton. I'm currently VFR only, so it will need to be good weather and we'll need to get a block of time on the club airplane. But you'll get some exposure to flying. And you can use the trip here to visit US Aviation (whose building is real close to the club hangar)
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That would be awesome. One of my ex's lived in Denton and I used to spend a lot of time down there so I may just have to accept probably won't be until after taxes though.
 
Cafeene said:
That would be awesome. One of my ex's lived in Denton and I used to spend a lot of time down there so I may just have to accept probably won't be until after taxes though.
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We can fly out to Stephenville for BBQ some weekend. Just buy my food (~$15-18) and I'll cover the flying costs.
 
Also, what sort of jobs might an FBO have available and around how much would those jobs usually pay?
 
Cafeene said:
Also, what sort of jobs might an FBO have available and around how much would those jobs usually pay?
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All sorts, from administrative, dispatcher, ramper (flightline worker), mechanic, to the owner. I don't know about the pay.

When you come down to Denton, see about setting up a "get some information" interview with the president/GM of US Aviation, Jeff Soules. He's a busy guy but always makes a few moments for me when I come across him around the airport and surrounding areas. He would be a good resource on this question and how you can develop a mailroom to boardroom game plan.
 
AggieMike88 said:
All sorts, from administrative, dispatcher, ramper (flightline worker), mechanic, to the owner. I don't know about the pay.

When you come down to Denton, see about setting up a "get some information" interview with the president/GM of US Aviation, Jeff Soules. He's a busy guy but always makes a few moments for me when I come across him around the airport and surrounding areas. He would be a good resource on this question and how you can develop a mailroom to boardroom game plan.
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I'm thinking of trying to talk to my local FBO to see if he might have some part time work that I could help with in order to secure a little extra money and hopefully a little flight time. Although I love that offer as well, something about that title would have me stammering over my words when meeting someone like that.
 
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Cafeene said:
I'm thinking of trying to talk to my local FBO to see if he might have some part time work that I could help with in order to secure a little extra money and hopefully a little flight time.
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Can't hurt to ask if some hours sweeping the floor, or handing tools to the mechanic, or washing airplanes could be translated into some flight time.

Plus it will start building your network of local aviation folk and getting to know who's good at what and who knows who for different resources.

Kimberly Anne out in California is a great example of a scrounger in this regard... her positive attitude and willingness to get her hands dirty has opened up many aviation opportunities for her.
 
ClimbnSink said:
Whatever you do stay away from loans. You need freedom to move and to work low paying crap jobs to build time. Loans will kill that. Why don't you head up to ND in the spring and work through the fall, then winter living super cheap in FL or some such fly away all the oil money if you aren't finished go back again next spring. Seems like a long time when you are 23 but it isn't and avoiding the loans is number one.
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^ Best plan
 
ClimbnSink said:
Whatever you do stay away from loans. You need freedom to move and to work low paying crap jobs to build time. Loans will kill that. Why don't you head up to ND in the spring and work through the fall, then winter living super cheap in FL or some such fly away all the oil money if you aren't finished go back again next spring. Seems like a long time when you are 23 but it isn't and avoiding the loans is number one.
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Other item about avoiding debt is the ability to start NOW taking advantage of compound interest. Any savings now toward retirement, even if it's a small deposit at not the best of return rates, will still compound to a very large number when you want it at age 65.

Retiring with at least $1,000,000 in the accounts is possible when starting at age 23, and much easier than starting at age 33 or 43.

Search for the Ben and Arthur chart to see an example.
 
AggieMike88 said:
We can fly out to Stephenville for BBQ some weekend. Just buy my food (~$15-18) and I'll cover the flying costs.
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Holler at me when you guys decide to do this...I'm out of KGTU just north of Austin - been looking for a reason to fly up there for some Q. You don't have to buy me anything. :)
 
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