When will I know I can't make the cut

Not all GA flying is recreational or for fun, then come the times when the weather won't do what the forecasters tell it to.
 
I just visited Fox, coincidentally; diverted there on my way to Paso Robles when my tachometer failed. It was definitely windy, but not too difficult really. It was 25G31 when I landed, and 20G25 when I left a few days later, but both times almost directly down the runway (which is long and wide). I had to dance with it a little, but not too badly. If that had been a direct crosswind though, I'd have gone elsewhere.

(Incidentally, kudos to Juan at Exodus for going out of his way and staying late to get my tach fixed so I didn't have to stay an extra night.)
 
Henning said:
Not all GA flying is recreational or for fun, then come the times when the weather won't do what the forecasters tell it to.
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Yes we are aware not all GA flying is for fun etc, but looking at the accident reports, it's obvious many of the other types should have stayed on the ground as well. Especially those with low instrument time who fly into bad weather, or even some with high time.
 
Jimmy cooper said:
Yes we are aware not all GA flying is for fun etc, but looking at the accident reports, it's obvious many of the other types should have stayed on the ground as well. Especially those with low instrument time who fly into bad weather, or even some with high time.
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There is always definitely a time to stay on the ground if the choice is available, that's for sure. When you get caught in the air and have no choice, it's good to have a plan.
 
Henning said:
There is always definitely a time to stay on the ground if the choice is available, that's for sure. When you get caught in the air and have no choice, it's good to have a plan.
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Apparently those in the accident reports did not have a plan. If so, best to stay on terra firma.
 
Mikey1719 said:
. I am now on my 4th that wants every landing a "10" in adverse conditions such as x-winds at 18 gusting to 23 at a 60 degree angle with dust devils. Very tough but I got each landing down on the ground without any trouble. He says that I have a knack of making a good landing from a bad approach. I'm reaching my 60th birthday and will be going to my second medical next week. Due to my approaches he won't let me go past pattern work. Maneuvers are no problem. I'm worried due to my age, that I won't be able to get my license because there will always be something to criticize and give reason not to sign me off for the check ride. Any thoughts?
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Sounds like you should work things through with this instructor. Once he signs you off, you really will be ready to leave the pattern. It will get easier once you have your license. You can set your own pace of stress or relaxation…

It's great that he's forcing you to develop proficiency in real-life cross wind conditions.

I would suggest spending as much time with him analyzing what went wrong with your "approaches" -- and what do you mean by that? -- is this final, or how you fly the whole pattern?

Some instructors are really strict; others are more laid back. Maybe the guy had someone go off and die on him years ago, and he never wants to repeat the experience. You never know.
 
Mikey1719 said:
A couple of instructors allowed me to crab on final and clean it up right before flare which I seem to prefer, however my current instructor is requiring me to slip all the way to landing. He says that he wants me to be comfortable with all 4 inputs and correct as necessary. In the slip configuration, I always seem to drift in ground effect when I'm slow and find that I can't give enough aileron with corrective rudder to get it back on center. I get it down well in the flare, but frequently in strong x-wind situations, I end up on the side of the center line instead.
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How old is the instructor? Sometimes young guys lack the confidence to let people go. If he's racked up the hours, he might be a keeper. The best instructors are often curmudgeons. Sounds like you'll be ahead of 80% of PPLs when you finish. All this is experience most people get AFTER licensing.
 
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Mikey1719 said:
Yes my CFI has given critiques, mainly airspeed and altitude on approach. I end up with strong updrafts or downdrafts or in some cases wind shear, and I have been flying in heavy turbulence with the airspeed indicator fluctuating 15 knots, which makes it hard to get an average airspeed. I understand that he is trying to make me proficient in adverse conditions to make me a safer pilot, but sometimes I get discouraged, because he said that an instructor will always push the student farther then their comfort zone to make progress.

A couple of instructors allowed me to crab on final and clean it up right before flare which I seem to prefer, however my current instructor is requiring me to slip all the way to landing. He says that he wants me to be comfortable with all 4 inputs and correct as necessary. In the slip configuration, I always seem to drift in ground effect when I'm slow and find that I can't give enough aileron with corrective rudder to get it back on center. I get it down well in the flare, but frequently in strong x-wind situations, I end up on the side of the center line instead.
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IMO he shouldn't force you to slip every time. He should be teaching you different techniques and not just the way HE prefers. There are often multiple ways to accomplish a task and (as long as it's safe and within standards) it should be your preference.
 
FlySince9 said:
There are good barbers and not so good barbers... The ability to teach is a talent that not everyone can master... In my pursuit of my license I had 5 instructors, and since then I've run into more bad ones than good ones... It is not only the instructor, it is your mutual compatibility, just as in any other relationship that will determine a good or bad fit. I have one suggestion that is probably not going to go over very well here... Find a female instructor... I've had more success with them... Not sure why...
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At the risk of starting the gender bias argument again....most female CFIs I've met don't have the same level of "do it my way" of the male CFIs. They're also much more amenable to discussion and working with the student's level of comfort.
 
murphey said:
At the risk of starting the gender bias argument again....most female CFIs I've met don't have the same level of "do it my way" of the male CFIs. They're also much more amenable to discussion and working with the student's level of comfort.
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The only female CFI I've flown with is Mari and I already know that I'm supposed to do things her way. :D

Male CFI's are all over the place and that is for sure and for certain. I've worked with some really excellent ones and a couple of lousy ones. I lasted two whole flights with the last lousy one (who was very knowledgable but only had one way to do things) and am now a bit more selective.

In the end it's just a matter of finding a CFI that you can work with.
 
I started with a male CFI who didn't make me feel safe in the plane. Switched to a female CFI and got my license and enjoyed myself in an older, lower performance 172 (and later Musketeer). YMMV!
 
I'll throw this one out there into the mix because no one has said it yet:

Perhaps your current instructor is looking for you to make the hard decisions an aviator needs to make about staying on the ground in crap conditions? Or landing and calling it quits for the day?

If you know it's going to be 18G22, many older instructors will happily go up with you and watch you swear and fight and beat the crap out of both of you while keeping you safe from your own bad weather decisions.

Just food for thought. Stop and think about it.

Yes someday you'll have to handle 18G22 and not flinch too badly when you get caught out in it and there isn't a better aligned runway for a couple hundred miles. Even that's rare.

So... Yeah. You need the skills.

But there's a good chance that what the instructor wants to see is good weather decision skills and a few hints that you know your own limitations.

You also mentioned that your approaches were poor. Fix it. Stop scheduling during the time of day when everything is bouncing you all over the sky and start getting up early before all the convective crap starts and go learn how to make every trip around the pattern as close to perfect in good conditions as you can.

I have a gut feeling your instructors aren't seeing proper decisions to be pilot in command from you. Take the pattern and the weather seriously and make them your call, not theirs and see if you suddenly find yourself being readied for a check ride.
 
murphey said:
At the risk of starting the gender bias argument again....most female CFIs I've met don't have the same level of "do it my way" of the male CFIs. They're also much more amenable to discussion and working with the student's level of comfort.
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So, there is something there... Thought so...
 
I think my second CFI milked me. Initial solo was 13 hours and with the second guy it was 18 hours. Then moving on to solo x-country was going slowwwww so I dumped him.

For your approaches. I requested lots of straight-in approaches to get my sight picture and recognition of ground effect / flare feeling good. Then went back to full pattern and it seemed to click what it should look like. Also grabbed a different CFI from the same school to do a couple hours of landings with me (felt like days).

If you don't mind driving to Fullerton I can recommend a good guy for you to do a lesson or two with to get an extra set of eyes on your flying. Although it could be cost effective to pay him to fly over to you instead of sitting on the freeway :(
 
I haven't monitored this thread for over a month and appreciate all your helpful suggestions. I have just changed my settings to get notifications from now on so I don't miss anything. I am amazed that a lot of you have gone thru similar struggles.
By continuing training in gusty conditions my CFI said that my landings are good now but my approach needs work. He said I'm the first he has met that can nail the landings but can't hold the approach speeds. I back it off to 1500 at the numbers, maintain altitude until the top of the white arc, add 10 degrees of flaps and trim while aiming for 80kts, 75 on base with 20 degrees flaps and 65 on final with 30 degrees of flaps. He wants me to hold the speeds "on the mark". Being 5kts off is unacceptable! Unless I'm landing with my airspeed indicator covered, then no more than 5kts off. I read in AOPA Training that two turns of trim after slowing to 80kts helps. I usually just take the pressure off once my flaps are in and when at 80kts. Can anyone else back that up?
 
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Trim for your speed on final. Your plane will seek the correct speed after being upset by a gust. You control your rate of descent with the throttle. As you start to drop, feed it a few hundred RPM to keep your focus point in place in the windshield. Reverse the process when you start to rise and take out some throttle. Then when you get to the bottom just land as usual which you'll also find easier.
 
Mikey1719 said:
I haven't monitored this thread for over a month and appreciate all your helpful suggestions. I have just changed my settings to get notifications from now on so I don't miss anything. I am amazed that a lot of you have gone thru similar struggles.
By continuing training in gusty conditions my CFI said that my landings are good now but my approach needs work. He said I'm the first he has met that can nail the landings but can't hold the approach speeds. I back it off to 1500 at the numbers, maintain altitude until the top of the white arc, add 10 degrees of flaps and trim while aiming for 80kts, 75 on base with 20 degrees flaps and 65 on final with 30 degrees of flaps. He wants me to hold the speeds "on the mark". Being 5kts off is unacceptable! Unless I'm landing with my airspeed indicator covered, then no more than 5kts off. I read in AOPA Training that two turns of trim after slowing to 80kts helps. I usually just take the pressure off once my flaps are in and when at 80kts. Can anyone else back that up?
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Find the correct position for the nose against the horizon for your speed and slide the nose along that same position while making your turns.
 
Mikey1719 said:
He says that I have a knack of making a good landing from a bad approach.
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I may be misunderstanding what your instructor meant by the term
"bad approach" but if he meant you were not achieving a stable
approach then maybe you should be going around rather than
trying to "save" it. I agree though that determining exactly
what you need to improve on is crucial to moving forward. There
are so many factors that go into a successful landing and not knowing
which one to work on is just a crapshoot.

Victor
 
I went through 4 CFI's myself. No fault of my own, just unreliable kids with no commitment. They simply want their hours so they can quit and move on to part 135 or commercial. I feel your pain. Don't give up.
 
1st instructor: Got his hours and then just ditched me no warning or explanation. He was a good instructor, but led me along getting his hours. Constantly passing me off too another instructor. No contact not even a text. He had gotten an airline job - fair enough, but some explanation is needed.
2nd: The guy kept getting passed off too. He mysteriously disappeared as well. Not a good instructor anyways
3rd: Good. Worked well, but moved airports and he took some time off.
4th: The best, fixed a lot of gaps of knowledge left by others, but left my new airport.
Went back to #3 and took the check-ride @ 80 hours

You can do it OP! I never practiced my approaches 18G22 though. I agree, they might be looking for you to make the PIC decision of a no go by your personal mins. 2 of mine looked for that same decision.
 
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