When to switch to tower frequency

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Johann

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Johann
Two different instructors, at two different fields, told me opposite things, so what do you think?

1) One told me to stay on the ground frequency until I'm ready to ask for takeoff clearance. So at the run-up area, or holding short, through all the checks, stay on ground.

2) The other says to switch to tower as soon as I stop at the run-up area.

The first always made more sense to me. If they need me to move it's going to be ground asking, and if I need to go back I have to ask ground. It's my understanding that tower only sequences takeoff, so until I'm ready for it they have nothing to say to me.

What say you?
 
I personally stay on ground until I am done my run-up and ready to go.
 
I switch when I am ready to takeoff. If it's just me, I taxi to the line, switch to tower and call.
 
+1 Stay on ground until ready to go. Turn on the strobes, switch to tower and advise ready to go taxiway x at runway x.
 
Johann said:
Two different instructors, at two different fields, told me opposite things, so what do you think?

1) One told me to stay on the ground frequency until I'm ready to ask for takeoff clearance. So at the run-up area, or holding short, through all the checks, stay on ground.

2) The other says to switch to tower as soon as I stop at the run-up area.

The first always made more sense to me. If they need me to move it's going to be ground asking, and if I need to go back I have to ask ground. It's my understanding that tower only sequences takeoff, so until I'm ready for it they have nothing to say to me.

What say you?
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Instructor 1 is correct. The answer is in AIM 4-3-14 (a):

AIM-4-3-14a said:
Pilots of departing aircraft should communicate
with the control tower on the appropriate ground
control/clearance delivery frequency prior to starting
engines to receive engine start time, taxi and/or
clearance information. Unless otherwise advised by
the tower, remain on that frequency during taxiing
and runup, then change to local control frequency
when ready to request takeoff clearance
Click to expand...

Feel free to show that to the incorrect instructor so he stops teaching the incorrect thing.
 
The tower controller only owns the runway. The ground controller owns everything else. Stay with ground until ready for takeoff.
 
Thanks for the responses, and thanks Jesse for the reference! That pretty much puts the issue to bed. Doesn't get any more clear than that.
 
I stay on ground.

I like it when I call "holding short" and they come back w/ "You are still on ground, contact tower at ..."
 
I also do the same, ground until at the runway and #1 for takeoff. One exception would be if taxiing between two parallel active runways. I am pretty sure then you are on tower's watch and should monitor that frequency. Someone correct me if I am wrong.
 
Stay on ground,during run up,no need to listen to tower ,as your not ready to go.
 
On occasion, there can be a variance to Jesse's explanation and the AIM. But this is rare. The one time I encountered it was at KAPA and instructions of who to talk to when were part of the ATIS broadcast.
 
AggieMike88 said:
On occasion, there can be a variance to Jesse's explanation and the AIM. But this is rare. The one time I encountered it was at KAPA and instructions of who to talk to when were part of the ATIS broadcast.
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That's the only one I've ran into as well.
 
Seanaldinho said:
The tower controller only owns the runway. The ground controller owns everything else. Stay with ground until ready for takeoff.
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Not always.

Local procedures may assign a parallel taxiway to Tower.

KRHV does that, for instance. Twy Z is controlled by Ground, Twy Y by Tower.
 
DrPappy said:
I also do the same, ground until at the runway and #1 for takeoff. One exception would be if taxiing between two parallel active runways. I am pretty sure then you are on tower's watch and should monitor that frequency. Someone correct me if I am wrong.
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How do become #1 if you don't report ready to tower earlier?

Your exception doesn't work. If crossing an active runway, Ground can give you that clearance. Just don't go on your own. If you switch to Tower to cross, you might confuse someone.

When ready to go, I switch to Tower, even if there are six people in line for departure ahead of me. Not before then unless instructed, even if crossing active runways. Ground may have something important to say to me.
 
Seanaldinho said:
The tower controller only owns the runway. The ground controller owns everything else. Stay with ground until ready for takeoff.
Click to expand...

At smaller airports, is it the same guy on a different frequency?
 
I always drain my bladder into a Gatorade bottle right before taking off so when they tell me to "hold short" as I'm in that process, I tell them I already am. :)
 
GMascelli said:
+1 Stay on ground until ready to go. Turn on the strobes, switch to tower and advise ready to go taxiway x at runway x.
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Why would you turn the strobes on before contacting tower and receiving a takeoff clearance?
 
#1 for sure. There might still be traffic that ground is expediting in front you, etc... You won't hear/know that if you are sitting on the tower freq while you are doing the run up.

Like most everyone else here, I switch to tower when I'm pulling out of the run up area and requesting permission to take off.
 
At my airport, Denver Centennial, local procedures trump the AIM. After runup is complete you notify ground, and ground tells you to monitor tower, and the tower calls you when they're ready to send you aloft. In the absence of local procedures, it's what Jesse said.
 
colojo said:
At my airport, Denver Centennial, local procedures trump the AIM. After runup is complete you notify ground, and ground tells you to monitor tower, and the tower calls you when they're ready to send you aloft. In the absence of local procedures, it's what Jesse said.
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No they don't. To re=quote from the AIM:

Unless otherwise advised by the tower, remain on that frequency during taxiing and runup, then change to local control frequency when ready to request takeoff clearance (emphasis added)​

The "Special procedures in effect" message at the KAPA ATIS is "otherwise advised by the tower"
 
On more than one occasion I have called on Ground to say "Ground, Cessna 1234X, Piper 4567V's rear baggage door is open," or "Piper 4567V is dripping fluid from his left engine." In the absence of other instructions, stay on Ground.

Bob Gardner
 
At all airports I stay with ground until I'm ready to use the runway. At that point I either tell ground runup complete and they tell me to contact tower or...

At my home airport, Centennial Airport in Denver, they do things in a somewhat unusual way, but it is clearly stated on ATIS (and yet it still screws some people up).

At KAPA during busier times (which is most of the day) they want you to call ground with your runup already complete and they usually state it as such in the ATIS. The ramp is uncontrolled and piston airplanes can access one of two typical, and many safe but 'custom', runup areas without using the taxiways. However, many aircraft still request a runup with ground control and I've never heard them balk at this.

The ATIS says to remain on ground control frequency until told to MONITOR tower. Once ground confirms you have ATIS, your runup is complete, they have your IFR release (if applicable), and you have taxied to someplace near the runway, they tell you to MONITOR tower and they now add "s/he will call you".

If you contact the tower they get ****ed unless you have some extenuating circumstance that requires a return to ground freq without taking off. Otherwise they want you to STFU and wait and just taxi forward as your turn comes until you're #1. When you're #1 or #2 they'll call you and give further instructions.

Is this procedure done anyplace else? From what instructors around here tell me it's pretty uncommon.
 
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petrolero said:
At all airports I stay with ground until I'm ready to use the runway. At that point I either tell ground runup complete and they tell me to contact tower or...
Click to expand...
Unless ATC or the ATIS instructs you otherwise there is no need to tell ground the run up is complete. Ground ALREADY cleared you to taxi to the runway. Your stop to do the runup does not invalidate that. So the expectation is that you will complete the runup, pull up to the runway hold short line, then switch to tower and tell them you're ready for takeoff.
petrolero said:
At my home airport, Centennial Airport in Denver, they do things in a somewhat
Is this procedure done anyplace else? From what instructors around here tell me it's pretty uncommon.
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They customized it which is why they have to explain it on the ATIS. There are other such airports with custom procedures but not many. I couldn't give you numbers but they are few and far between.
 
Ditto what others have said. Here, at particularly slow times, tower might be handling it all, but if that's the case it will be in the ATIS anyway... "all departures contact tower on ..." Normally here, contact clearance delivery first, then ground when you're ready to move, then tower when you're ready to leave the ground.
 
jesse said:
Unless ATC or the ATIS instructs you otherwise there is no need to tell ground the run up is complete. Ground ALREADY cleared you to taxi to the runway. Your stop to do the runup does not invalidate that. So the expectation is that you will complete the runup, pull up to the runway hold short line, then switch to tower and tell them you're ready for takeoff.

They customized it which is why they have to explain it on the ATIS. There are other such airports with custom procedures but not many. I couldn't give you numbers but they are few and far between.
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At KAPA they want to know your runup needs (and they clearly hope you'll say it's complete) on initial call to ground. If you omit it, they ask. If you need a runup they do not clear you to taxi to the runway but to the north or south or C1 runup area. If you call them runup complete then they'll taxi you to the runway and tell you to monitor tower at the appropriate time.
 
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champ driver said:
Why would you turn the strobes on before contacting tower and receiving a takeoff clearance?
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Since my plane has a all flying rudder, mounting a rotating beacon on the top of it is problematic so I turn on my strobes before engine crank..... At night, if there are other planes around I will not light off the strobes till taking the active.. Otherwise... They are on.... YMMV...

As for the original question..... I contact tower while approaching the hold short line since I do my run up with the V-8 on the roll......
 
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petrolero said:
At KAPA they want to know your runup needs (and they clearly hope you'll say it's complete) on initial call to ground. If you omit it, they ask. If you need a runup they do not clear you to taxi to the runway but to the north or south or C1 runup area. If you call them runup complete then they'll taxi you to the runway and tell you to monitor tower at the appropriate time.
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Aware, I've been to APA numerous times. Which is why I wrote:
Unless ATC or the ATIS instructs you otherwise there
Click to expand...
 
MAKG1 said:
... If crossing an active runway, Ground can give you that clearance. . Just don't go on your own. If you switch to Tower to cross, you might confuse someone. ...
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Yes. Ground will have coordinated the crossing with the local controller (aka "Tower") before giving you the instruction to cross. Since Ground temporarily owns the crossing area, the local controller doesn't have jurisdiction over it and actually cannot give permission to cross.
 
N801BH said:
Since my plane has a all flying rudder, mounting a rotating beacon on the top of it is problematic so I turn on my strobes before engine crank..... At night, if there are other planes around I will not light off the strobes till taking the active.. Otherwise... They are on.... YMMV...

As for the original question..... I contact tower while approaching the hold short line since I do my run up with the V-8 on the roll......
Click to expand...

I can see that for your slightly different plane with it's rudder design you may want to turn the strobes on before taking the runway. But, for the person who said he turns them on even before contacting the tower, the question remains, why?

And, what does YMMV mean?
 
champ driver said:
I can see that for your slightly different plane with it's rudder design you may want to turn the strobes on before taking the runway. But, for the person who said he turns them on even before contacting the tower, the question remains, why?

And, what does YMMV mean?
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For increased conspicuity? :dunno:
 
Strobe switch stays on permanently on mine.

You'll never go home and leave the master on....
 
Yeah I was taught that strobes go on at the threshold and off at the threshold. I was taught that by a DPE who told me that if I ever did anything other than that I would pi$s off a bunch of pilots and show everyone that I'm the amateur pilot. I took the hint.
 
Strobes don't go on until I'm on the runway or crossing a runway.
 
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