When do you get rusty?

NealRomeoGolf

NealRomeoGolf

Final Approach
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How long will you go without flying before you take an instructor with you the next time to make sure you don't kill yourself? Asking for a friend...
 
Does it have to be an instructor or just an experienced pilot that you trust? I really have no answer to the question but just countered with my own. Sorry about that but I've only been flying for 3 years and the longest I've gone without flying was about 3 weeks so far.
 
Timbeck2 said:
Does it have to be an instructor or just an experienced pilot that you trust? I really have no answer to the question but just countered with my own. Sorry about that but I've only been flying for 3 years and the longest I've gone without flying was about 3 weeks so far.
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If it has been more than 90 days the friend would have to be current and considered PIC right? Could care less about logging so that could work. Worried about a lack of CFI availability...for my friend.
 
Excluding IFR flying, I feel like learning to fly is like riding a bike, once you learn it, you won’t forget it, however you will get rusty if you let a lot of time lapse between flights.

Since I’ve been a pilot card holder, I don’t think I’ve ever gone more than a month without flying, and I felt fine when I jumped back into it after that. I think this is one of those questions that only you can answer based on your skill set. For me, I’d probably take a CFI along after 3 months or longer without flying.
 
I didn’t fly once for about 3 months. Grabbed a CFI and did some takeoffs and landings. I get rusty on crosswind touchdowns. Worth every penny of the $44/hr I spent.
 
No matter how many hours I have flown, every year I do two partial days over a weekend with my instructor going over all the things that can go wrong in a twin. I prefer the weekend approach of flying, review and more flying the next day. I wish there was an Aztec module for the Redbird at our Club, but I've been using the Seneca module in the sim in the winter as well, which is the next best thing I suppose.
 
NealRomeoGolf said:
How long will you go without flying before you take an instructor with you the next time to make sure you don't kill yourself? Asking for a friend...
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I have a friend like that. He scares the bejeebers outa me! I bought him an airplane.

Seriously though. I tell myself if I go more than 90 days without flying, I'll go get a "flight review". Its worked so far. But, getting a warm up in the little airplane I have now wouldn't be practical. I can barely carry a full tank of gas, let alone a CFI.
 
I know I've gone a month a nd a week due to annual inspection and getting back in it felt foreign. If I don't fly XC for a while, I also make small mistakes.

I went 13 years no flying and after about an hour flight with my CFI I was good to go.
 
Unit74 said:
I know I've gone a month a nd a week due to annual inspection and getting back in it felt foreign. If I don't fly XC for a while, I also make small mistakes.

I went 13 years no flying and after about an hour flight with my CFI I was good to go.
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Seriously? I was an active CFI, stopped flying for 10 years, and it took about 5 hours to complete the Flight Review, and another 5 hours for the IPC. Granted this was in a complex airplane that was new to me. In any case, how did you do all of that in 1 hour?
 
After a month of not flying, I find that I am a little off my game. I just make sure my next flight is in non-challenging conditions and it comes back very quickly. More than three months and I want to go up with a CFI or trusted pilot.
 
The answer is going to be significantly different for each pilot based on their experience level and the mission. I'd expect rust for a local fun flight to accumulate far more quickly on a new private pilot with 60 total hours than an ATP with 5,000 hours. Wouldn't you?
 
I (or shall I say my friend) have been on the ground for a year so I know a CFI is required. My problem is availability. We are only in town a limited time and my usual CFI may not be available Saturday and I don't live in an area full of CFIs. I know, poor me. Was just curious what the opinions would be. I think the longest time before this had been 6 weeks. It felt a little strange but it wasn't awful.
 
NealRomeoGolf said:
I (or shall I say my friend) have been on the ground for a year so I know a CFI is required.
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I guess you've answered your own question. You've either decided you need the professional assist (good ADM) or are renting from an FBO or in a club which has a currency requirement.
 
midlifeflyer said:
I guess you've answered your own question. You've either decided you need the professional assist (good ADM) or are renting from an FBO or in a club which has a currency requirement.
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I have my own plane so I have to use good ADM to keep me from jumping in without a life preserver. ;)
 
My rustiness is about the nature of the flight. I have no hesitation going out after a winter with the plane is storage. I’ve done that many times. Will I go make my first landing into a short strip with a siff crosswind? Nope. Not until I’ve sharpened up. I know aerobatics pilots that say they need to fly evey day to maintain their skills. Take a week off and they lose their sharpness and their G acclimation. So I guess my opinion is that competence for taking flight after a layoff depends on the nature of the flight.
 
After 20 years off it took me 7 hours to get signed off I felt VERY RUSTY the first few flights felt darn near rusted through.

Since then I have had a few stretches of 3-5 months over the winter and haven't noticed any significant rust.
 
It really depends on experience level, type of flying, and personal comfort. I have owned my current plane for a long time, so I'm not too worried about getting it up and down safely after a layoff. (Went 6 months once waiting for a necessary and hard to get part.) Flying IFR is a little more complex. For that, I like getting an IPC every 6 months regardless. Always learn something new. And it's good to have another set of eyes to evaluate your competence as any rustiness gets removed.

If you are not comfortable flying or are uncertain, by all means ride with a CFI for a quick checkout. Can't hurt. And you'll probably learn something new.
 
I haven't flown in around 3 years now. I'm confident I could fire up a 172 and go running around the patch/local burger run on a calm day without too much anxiety. However, I wouldn't want to go diving into short/narrow strips or dealing with strong crosswinds without a few hours of work to build the skill set back up. No IR, but I'd imagine that would take many hours of work with an instructor to build up even a basic proficiency/scan before setting out in IMC after a 3-yr hiatus.
 
I went over 5 months during a transition time in my life. When I got back into it, I was thrown the keys to a Cherokee (expecting him to want to take me up first), and I went up for 30 minutes. It took me about 5 minutes to feel fine.

At least in regards to flying non-complex singles VFR, I don't think there's much to get rusty over and I think a CFI would of been a waste. You don't forget how to fly those things. You just may not be as precise but I don't see any reason you shouldn't be able to work through the rust yourself without slamming into the ground.
 
sarangan said:
Seriously? I was an active CFI, stopped flying for 10 years, and it took about 5 hours to complete the Flight Review, and another 5 hours for the IPC. Granted this was in a complex airplane that was new to me. In any case, how did you do all of that in 1 hour?
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We flew 20 hours total..... I bought a plane cross country, flew my cfi to meet me and fly back with me. We did some ground review the night before, owner threw me the keys and we bail outa there! I was very comfortable after an hour. He never touched the yoke. I had about 300 hours at the time in the same airframe type before talking a pause. Like sliding on an old baseball glove......
 
RUSTY,,, Oh man, I tried to do some tail up taxi practice today checking gear alignment, and scared the scat out of my self.. RUSTY... you bet.
 
5 weeks is max I have been when she was down for avionics work, took a CFI for the first flight. Recently took 4 week gap, went up alone in near perfect conditions for the first flight , since then it’s all cool. I also do a flight review every 6 months no matter how much or little I fly.
 
I've gone a year. No trouble with the important stuff like approach and landing, but couldn't hold altitude or heading worth a hoot.
 
28.9 Hobbs hours going from SoCal to Osh and Texas and back knocked the rust off, and then some! Gotta take a break from flying (but only for a week!)

I get a little rusty going into towered airports, 'cause I prefer nontowered. Got to mix it up a little.

Good spaghetti dinner fly-in at Fallbrook on Aug. 11 if anyone's interested. Starts at 6 pm.
 
midlifeflyer said:
The answer is going to be significantly different for each pilot based on their experience level and the mission. I'd expect rust for a local fun flight to accumulate far more quickly on a new private pilot with 60 total hours than an ATP with 5,000 hours. Wouldn't you?
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Maybe. Perhaps I'm overthinking it, but I would expect (hope?) that the 60 hr guy is new enough that each flight is still very checklist oriented and methodical, whether they just flew yesterday, or it's been 3 months... they haven't yet started going more and more off their experience and innate knowledge. I feel like it's that 5,000 hr guy who may leave the control lock in place or something

Maybe Ron could answer it for us, but wondering what hrs tend to see the most "dumb" accidents. What the distribution looks like
 
What about IPC vs taking your safety pilot buddy to get your approaches? I've been hearing more about how the IPC is better since it keeps you more on your feet with tolerances. If you have your buddy in the right seat and you're sort of under the hood you may let some sloppy glideslopes, etc., get by and develop some bad habits that could sting you in actual one day

Obviously if you are lucky enough to fly in enough actual to organically keep your IR currency that's great.. but I'm asking for the SoCal pilots who may log one or two actual approaches in a month and are always on the cusp of losing currency sometime in the next 30 days
 
Tantalum said:
Maybe. Perhaps I'm overthinking it, but I would expect (hope?) that the 60 hr guy is new enough that each flight is still very checklist oriented and methodical, whether they just flew yesterday, or it's been 3 months... they haven't yet started going more and more off their experience and innate knowledge. I feel like it's that 5,000 hr guy who may leave the control lock in place or something
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I only said that the more experienced pilot can be expected to accumulate less rust over the same period of time than the newbie. That's a "like riding a bicycle"analysis. More has been incorporated into the pilot.More muscle memory. More knowledge.

It seems to me you are now trying to put people into boxes. Pilots are individuals. A 60 hour pilot might be meticulous or think he knows everything. A 5,000 hour pilot may be overconfident or understand her own limitations better than the newbie.
 
midlifeflyer said:
It seems to me you are now trying to put people into boxes.
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Not necessary, just a genuine curiosity how the distribution looks. I think you need a combination of both. That experience you get from 5,000 hrs is invaluable for sure. Lots of things will come second nature to you

If someone has the data it would be interesting to see the distribution
 
NealRomeoGolf said:
How long will you go without flying before you take an instructor with you the next time to make sure you don't kill yourself? Asking for a friend...
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Tell your “friend” that if he/ she is uncomfortable that having another pilot buddy along is never a bad idea. I tend to think a CFI is overkill. I would say if you have done something to terrify yourself than bring a CFI, otherwise a good and honest pilot buddy is the best. And if your looking for one and anywhere near Colorado or Kansas, Ile be your pilot buddy
 
Got 1.1 in today and 4 landings. I ain't dead. ;):D Had a CFI eith me just in case. I mean my friend did. :p
 
It really depends......;)

VFR and crosswind landings....meh, I can get back in the saddle after months on my own. IFR....I get an IPC after a few approaches with a friend in the right seat.
 
I recently went about 2 months without flying. My first flight back in the saddle was about .5 hr local flight solo just to check everything out after having the cowl off for some maintenance, followed by a 5.6 hour flight to Oshkosh! No problem. However, I have my own very simple airplane which I've flown exclusively for the last 3 years, so it's like jumping in my old Chevy. If you're renting or have been flying different planes, you might need to jump in with a pilot friend or CFI if you're uncomfortable.
 
Just to cap this off, I was really surprised at how my landings didn't go to crap after a 1 year layoff. Holding altitudes in the bumps was my biggest challenge. Granted I fly only a 180hp plane so it isn't a handful. Landings were my biggest worry and they ended up being the easiest part that came back. I didn't thump down once. Unfortunately I will go (mostly) another year without flying. Although there is a possibility that I can get into a club in Germany. Here's to hoping...
 
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