When Did (Car) Brake Jobs Become So Expensive?

[bnt83]

Also why I now think the coated rotors were a good investment. Part of the scoring may be from pieces of the rotors themselves falling in between the rotors and the pads. Obviously, the coating can't directly protect that area, but it can reduce or eliminate the shedding.

Rich

You should revisit this thread next time you have it apart!

 

[RJM62]

You should revisit this thread next time you have it apart!

It will be interesting to see if they hold up. The only downside (and it's a minor one out here in the sticks) is that there's this break-in ritual you have to go through with the coated rotors, which I'm told actually is important. For the small difference in price, it's worth seeing if they at least reduce the rate at which the rotors rot away. They might also make them a bit easier to remove. I had to seriously wail at one of them to get it off the hub.

 

[Clip4]

If time is of such a concern, I can change the oil and rotate the tires in the time it take to drive 30 minutes round-trip to the dealership, much less waiting on them to actually do the work.

Maybe you should move closer to the dealership.

 

[Huckster79]

Agree I have used a lot of their loaner tools.



This depends, if it is new or remanufactured a lot of the reman stuff is all done by the same 2 or 3 shops and just labeled differently.

A lot of off brand stuff is the same way, same company different boxes. I looked into this once- for minimal fee a Chinese company will print your custom box, stamp your name an anything and ship it to you by the pallet- next to pallets with same parts but different stamps, stickers and box markings.

Hook up a laptop, tell the car to retract the parking brake cylinders. Reset then when you're done. Yep, brutal.

Software and cables are the first thing I get for any car/motorcycle I own. Saves me thousands.

Until my current car (which came with a very good warranty) my rule has always been "no one touches my car with a wrench but me". That includes internal engine repairs.

I still do my own oil changes, 30k, 60k services. The old "you can't work on your own cars anymore" is a myth. They'll even tell you what the problem is if you know how to ask nice.

I agree you can work on newer stuff though I won’t go into engine Internals on anything, just above my current skill set. I’m on my second Saab 9-3, love em! Fast, sexy, cheap for what they are. I have had minimal problems and almost all repairs have been wear items. And by God that car was designed to be serviced. One was an 06 current is an 07. Even whole life in Michigan bolts don’t break, most aren’t even stuck, nothing is corroded beyond recognition, the torx head bolts never strip... went to do ball joints- buddy spent all day beating n heating his apart on a Gm something or other. Mine took an hour- bolted whole control arm with ball joint built-in off - bolted new one on...

There is another factor that is not being afraid of it and have patients. Things can and will go wrong you have to be ready to accept that before going in. You can watch Youtube all day long to see how to do something but snap a bolt off (especially here in the rust belt where I live) in a hard to get at place and you might reconsider your willingness to work on your own stuff.

This! Patience and a little creativity go a long long way when, not if, something doesn’t go as planned or you don’t have the right tool...

Agreed, oil changes aren't worth your time unless you are just concerned about getting it right. I sometimes do mine just because my last two oil change experiences were not great. They left the filter loose on one car causing it to leak oil all over the car and my garage floor. The second time they broke a bunch of plastic fasteners and didn't bother to replace them.

I still do mine the Saab likes 6.5qts of 0-40 mobile one full synethetic. Not being a bulk oil the quick change places want $100+, at Wally World I can still do it for $30

Wow! Does the suspension and under the car look that rotted? Engine crankcase, exhaust etc?

I frequently wonder what unintended consequences there will be from the "green" movement. if high quality corrosion inhibiting materials are banned for "greener" ones do they perform the same?

Old cars went fast too in the salt back in 80s they rotted fast. My 04 burb Im afraid is ugly underneath and coming through behind the tires on the body I’ve read if u get em before (I didn’t) they have cancer bad- painting underneath with boiled linseed really helps. Old Steel tube drivers could vouch for that on here...

 

[Huckster79]

Not to drift but on bodies- many great models have common bad spots- like my burb- most all go behind the back tire... most still with rest of truck still looks great - but body work is pricey as they age... compared to their value at least...

Wish there were more glue on plastic body panel fixes for popular vehicles with problem spots. Could be painted to match and glued on over the problem area - may not be back to new look body work gives and definitely a band aid but one that could buy a lot of rides a few more years of looking good and could be done more reasonably.

 

[SoonerAviator]

Maybe you should move closer to the dealership.

I have no desire to be any closer to the city limits than I currently am. I’d need a hell of a lot better reason than saving time on twice a year oil changes to make that move!

 

[Xscaliber]

I own 2 auto repair shops in the UK, I am frequently in the US at our vacation home in Florida and of course it works out financially to keep a vehicle in my garage as it would be very expensive to rent every time we visit. Now the last thing I want to do on vacation is do my own vehicle service, but reluctantly I've equipped my garage with the basic tools I need for most small jobs such as brakes, because frankly I'm surprised at how much you guys are ripped off by the dealerships and larger independents !

Also a word of warning for those investing in new cars/trucks, it is becoming the norm now for parking brakes to be electronic and therefore you can't release the rear caliper to fit new pads without connecting to the ECU with the correct diagnostic tool to allow the brake caliper pistons to retract. The equipment is expensive, not something you would have laying around in your garage at home for the limited time you would use it.

 

[DaleB]

Or just chock the wheels and don't set the parking brake...

 

[RJM62]

Or just chock the wheels and don't set the parking brake...

That's pretty much what you have to with conventional parking brakes anyway. Either that or disconnect the cable.

Also, if they're electrically-activated, then it comes down to a solenoid somewhere. In time someone will publish which connector you have to disconnect to protect the BCM, and how much voltage has to be applied to which lead, to manually retract them. It may well be a farmer who figures it out. Agricultural equipment manufacturers have started computerizing everything, thinking that farmers will have no choice other than to pay their reps for simple repairs. But a lot of it has been cracked already.

Rich

 

[MIFlyer]

I changed my front pads on the truck Saturday. I had a pair of rotors ready, but didn't end up needing them, so the whole job was an hour in the driveway with my dad and kids helping. I realize the pads might not last as long since I just threw new Akebono pads on and didn't bother to turn the rotors, but for $60 and the short time it took me, I don't really care if I have to do pads + rotors in two years or something. I do tend to use them up since I stupidly communte in stop and go traffic in an 8,400 lb vehicle, but pads are cheap.

Luckily, we don't get the corrosion up here in Washington state, so an impact wrench will make short work of it 99% of the time.

 

[Ventucky Red]

My Toyota Camry went for 130K miles before I did the rear brakes.. and the fronts we good for 60K... and this is in LA bumper to bumper traffic... I am thinking that the brakes are lasting longer and the parts are more expensive...

But, don't feel too bad.... My asshat brother in law; that just had to have the Porsche 911, spent $4K on a brake job, tires and a 4 wheel alignment.... do you want to hear how much they told him it was going to cost when he needs to change out the spark plugs?

 

[Xscaliber]

But, don't feel too bad.... My asshat brother in law; that just had to have the Porsche 911, spent $4K on a brake job, tires and a 4 wheel alignment.... do you want to hear how much they told him it was going to cost when he needs to change out the spark plugs?

My company does quite a lot of Porsche work, depending on which 911 model it can require the motor to be dropped out of the frame to get at the spark plugs !

If you really want to experience expensive car ownership buy a Bentley GT, we recently completed a motor re-build following a cam chain failure...$55K and that was at "mates rates" as it was for a customer who spends a lot of cash with us looking after his company vehicles.

 

[RJM62]

Where I live, it's not at all uncommon for the front rotors to need replacement before the pads do. Because you don't use the brakes as much out in the boonies, and because on many cars the front pads are bigger than the rear pads, they usually rust away before they wear out (though not as quickly as the rears do); and if you're going to change the rotors, it's pretty silly not to change the pads while you're at it.

Rich

 

[Ventucky Red]

My company does quite a lot of Porsche work, depending on which 911 model it can require the motor to be dropped out of the frame to get at the spark plugs !

They told him it was 8 hours of labor... he is coming up on it as part of the recommend service... plugs coil packs, filters, etc.... I looked at a couple of you-tube videos, and though it is a challenge I would like to take on, not for him... I makes me glad to see him needlessly spend money.. Maybe he'll get rid of the Detroit Tigers baseball cap and Hawaiian shirt....

 

[FORANE]

Sounds like the Ferrari I once owned. it required one remove the car from the engine and it's cradle to service the belt, water pump, etc.

 

[DFH65]

Here in rust country I always end up replacing the rotors with the pads. Rotors are pretty cheap these days both in money and construction.

 

[Ted]

Sounds like the Ferrari I once owned. it required one remove the car from the engine and it's cradle to service the belt, water pump, etc.

At some point (I think post-2000) Ferrari started to work more on making their cars a bit easier to service. Enzo had no interest in servicing vehicles from what I understood - the goal was to win races and that was it.

That said, I think Ferrari lost a lot of their soul once they made the changes, so if I got one, I'd go with older, impractical, and impossible to service.

 

[RudyP]

At some point (I think post-2000) Ferrari started to work more on making their cars a bit easier to service. Enzo had no interest in servicing vehicles from what I understood - the goal was to win races and that was it.

That said, I think Ferrari lost a lot of their soul once they made the changes, so if I got one, I'd go with older, impractical, and impossible to service.

The timing belt replacement that requires engine drops on mid engine V8 Ferraris was really only the 348 and F355. Prior cars (e.g., 308/328) had transverse engines that could have belts replaced while in the car and later cars (360, 430, etc) have an access panel from the cabin that allows access without dropping the engine. The 360 was launched in 1999 so you are essentially correct.

I have an F355 because I think it's a much cooler car than the later ones and the engine out service is only every 5 years or so...

 

[Ted]

The timing belt replacement that requires engine drops on mid engine V8 Ferraris was really only the 348 and F355. Prior cars (e.g., 308/328) had transverse engines that could have belts replaced while in the car and later cars (360, 430, etc) have an access panel from the cabin that allows access without dropping the engine. The 360 was launched in 1999 so you are essentially correct.

I have an F355 because I think it's a much cooler car than the later ones and the engine out service is only every 5 years or so...
View attachment 75808

I've ridden in two Ferraris - a mid-80s 308 GTS and a 365 GTB/4 drop-top. The latter was the first Ferrari I'd ever ridden in, and if I ever forget that drive, put a bullet in my head because my brain is done. Best ride of my life in any vehicle, ever, period.

The transversely mounted engine in a Ferrari is, to me, sacrilege. I appreciate the 308 more now than I did when I rode in it, but your F355 is a proper Ferrari in my mind. I would love a 360, but I think that's about the newest I would want. Earlier would be better.

For now I'm thinking past the Cobra to my next build - something 100% custom purposely built to be as complex to drive as possible.

 

[SoonerAviator]

My FIL's Testarossa is the only Ferrari I've driven, but it suffered from the same lack of serviceability as other pre-2000's models. It's the primary reason he sold it, because he didn't want to have to fork over $10K to a Ferrari dealership/shop in order to do the scheduled maintenance it was going to need in another 3K miles or so. He probably only owned it for a year and a half, just to try it out and say that he owned one. He pretty much just sticks to old muscle because he can work on those a bit easier.

Fun fact: my feet with dress shoes on were too wide to be able to press the clutch without catching the brake pedal. Barefoot driving it is then!

 

[FORANE]

Thread drift but everyone likes pictures.

 

[Ted]

My FIL's Testarossa is the only Ferrari I've driven, but it suffered from the same lack of serviceability as other pre-2000's models. It's the primary reason he sold it, because he didn't want to have to fork over $10K to a Ferrari dealership/shop in order to do the scheduled maintenance it was going to need in another 3K miles or so. He probably only owned it for a year and a half, just to try it out and say that he owned one. He pretty much just sticks to old muscle because he can work on those a bit easier.

That's actually part of why I'm coming around to the idea of a GT40 replica for a mid-engine LeMans-style racer. I also want to do a Jaguar XJ13 and have no problems working on Jag V12s (done plenty of them), but the V12 I'd have to put in would be the SOHC one they put in production cars, which is neutered (unless I wanted to go #fullsend and adapt DOHC heads for a DOHC 48-valve Jag V12).

Ferraris aren't really meant to be driven, they're meant to be raced. Key difference there.

 

[DaleB]

I've been adjusting to "semi sort of exotic" V12 ownership. Early May I bought a Mercedes S600 with under 48K miles on the odometer. If you're unfamiliar, it's an exceptionally opulent luxury sedan with a 510 HP, twin-turbocharged 5.5 liter V12 and an active hydraulic suspension system, among other things. It hasn't been trouble-free, but I don't think anything new has broken since I bought it -- it just had problems that weren't obvious when I looked at it. If I'd have had a proper dealer PPI done, I would have screwed the price down a few more thousand -- but the logistics of doing that in a distant city are difficult. Next time (and there will be a next time), I'll do it differently.

The real adjustment, as I've noted before, is in how these things are serviced. Got a problem? Unless it's something mechanical that's obviously broken, you're going to absolutely need the Mercedes dealer level software (at the very least), on a dedicated laptop, and the hardware to get it to talk to the car. Period. Or, you take it to a dealer that charges a $160 "diagnostic fee" per symptom. Or, you find an independent shop and hope they're as good as they claim. The mechanical systems are very complex. The electronics are far, far more complex. Just an example: You turn the thumbwheel on the dash air vent to control airflow. It's not a mechanical control. It's a potentiometer, which is read by a control unit that sits on the CAN bus, and talks to numerous other control units, and a decision is made how much to move the electrically actuated damper behind that vent. Oh, the potentiometer went bad and can't be read? No A/C for you, pal.

I'll be about $3K deep in repairs, parts, and vehicle-specific tools by the time I'm done, maybe a little less. The good news is, half of that is the one thing that the dealer HAS to do -- the rest I can do myself with parts sourced from Fleabay or a couple of dealers that sell factory original parts at a deep discount. By the weekend I'll be equipped to do anything the dealer can do diagnostic-wise, which will pay for itself quickly.

On the plus side... the thing is over-built, and the level of engineering and the build quality is fantastic. Even at 13 years old, this car has features most new cars don't. You can cruise all day long in ridiculous comfort, and if the mood ever strikes you to see, for example, how long it takes to go from 40 to 130 MPH... it will happily and very quickly do it, without drama, and you're nowhere near the top end. This model is limited to 157 MPH, and it will easily do it. It's not going to be as cheap to own and operate as my F150, for example, but once it's fully sorted out I don't think it will be punitively bad, either. You don't own a car like this (or a Ferrari, or a McLaren, or a Bentley, or whatever) because it's cheap.

 

[SoonerAviator]

I've been adjusting to "semi sort of exotic" V12 ownership. Early May I bought a Mercedes S600 with under 48K miles on the odometer. If you're unfamiliar, it's an exceptionally opulent luxury sedan with a 510 HP, twin-turbocharged 5.5 liter V12 and an active hydraulic suspension system, among other things. It hasn't been trouble-free, but I don't think anything new has broken since I bought it -- it just had problems that weren't obvious when I looked at it. If I'd have had a proper dealer PPI done, I would have screwed the price down a few more thousand -- but the logistics of doing that in a distant city are difficult. Next time (and there will be a next time), I'll do it differently.

FIL owns a late-90's model (I wanna say '99) SL600 convertible w/V12 as well. Fun car for sure. Not sure how yours differs being newer (and likely much more complex), but the SL600 seems to have a button for everything. Even the headrests move up/down with switches on the door panel, lol. I don't think he's had any problems with it so far, but I think he only takes it out once a month, if that.

 

[FORANE]

I had a similar vintage SL600. The headlight glass had a rock chip so I figured I would replace it even though the headlight worked fine. went to the dealer. dealer said it would be $2,000 for the headlight assembly. I ended up finding one in a junkyard for a couple hundred.
I bought the Ferrari after that but ended up selling the Ferrari for the same reason as others have mentioned regarding service. If I get another toy car it will likely be along the lines of what Ted described.

 

[Xscaliber]

I had the misfortune to own a Testarossa, It wasn't my best purchase and not the best car to drive. It gave me endless sleepless nights with mechanical issues, I was happy to see the back of it. But it didn't put me off the Marque and I'm happy to say my 430 gave me many hours of fun driving. These days I've settled for something that still gives me the "smile factor" but rather more user friendly as a road car. Audi R8

 

[Grum.Man]

I had the misfortune to own a Testarossa, It wasn't my best purchase and not the best car to drive. It gave me endless sleepless nights with mechanical issues, I was happy to see the back of it. But it didn't put me off the Marque and I'm happy to say my 430 gave me many hours of fun driving. These days I've settled for something that still gives me the "smile factor" but rather more user friendly as a road car. Audi R8

Many hours! now that's funny but so true of an Italian car.

 

[Xscaliber]

Many hours! now that's funny but so true of an Italian car.

...Yes I've never thought of it like that before, but you're probably correct, Mind you some cars that I've owned that are not Italian are better counted in hours rather than miles completed...I've owned some expensive junkers...But you know the saying "Boys and their Toys"...

 

[RJM62]

I did the fronts this morning before breakfast:


They probably would have passed inspection, but the thickness of the rotors and two of the pads were borderline. Besides, I had some slight warpage symptoms; so better to change them now than have to do it in February.

Here's one of the new ones:


I'll know by spring whether the coating actually works.

Rich