When can you claim you are a professional?

John221us said:
I won second place in a trout derby, back when I was 20 ($200). I guess that makes me a pro fisherman... seriously, though, I have bought several of @Sac Arrow books and they are good. I say go for it. I know the pro/amateur thing in sports can be kind of convoluted.
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Thanks! I just put my newest, Leon's Fire, out two days ago.
 
Legally, anyone can call themselves a professional. There's no law against it.

If you wear a suit o
 
Sac Arrow said:
I do a lot of technical writing in my day job, and a lot of proposal writing, which is closer to your cited 'professional writing' skill set. It is 'professional writing' that would be applicable in this instance.

And by the way I have no problem switching between dry third-person technical writing style and fiction. In fact, some of my proposals, when it comes to the description of my firm's capabilities, have been labeled as well crafted works of fiction.
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I've seen sales/marketing brochures that were magnificent works of fiction.
 
Sac Arrow said:
I do a lot of technical writing in my day job, and a lot of proposal writing, which is closer to your cited 'professional writing' skill set. It is 'professional writing' that would be applicable in this instance.

And by the way I have no problem switching between dry third-person technical writing style and fiction. In fact, some of my proposals, when it comes to the description of my firm's capabilities, have been labeled as well crafted works of fiction.
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wait....I must be a writer too. I do all that....cept the part about making coffee for the boss. :eek:
 
Sac Arrow said:
In fact, some of my proposals, when it comes to the description of my firm's capabilities, have been labeled as well crafted works of fiction.
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Pretty much true of every proposal I've read for an aircraft development.

Cheers
 
GlennAB1 said:
Bunch of bull.
If a glass is empty and you fill it half way, it's half full. If a glass is full and you drink half of it, it's half empty. Just like fueling an aircraft
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That's a valid progressonian approach.

Damn, I think I invented a new word.
 
GlennAB1 said:
Bunch of bull.
If a glass is empty and you fill it half way, it's half full. If a glass is full and you drink half of it, it's half empty. Just like fueling an aircraft
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Schrödinger’s Cat thought experiment (quantum states) says the glass status (half empty and half full) can be both until it is observed, then once observed either of one of the two states becomes true but no longer both.
 
Sac Arrow said:
This is a broad question. In aviation terms, if you are a commercial pilot, and you get paid the occasional gig to fly someone someplace can you claim you are a professional? If you make brownies and get regular income from your scholastic sales are you a professional? If you are hired by Conservation Wildlife Resource Unlimited to track Antarctic Polar Bears using chartered New Zealand C-170's equipped with skis and bicycle mounts are you now a professional?

Okay I'll get right to the point of where I am trying to get. Let's say I'm an author. Well I am an author, some of you know. There is no licensing, sanctioning, author board that gives you a badge, gun, epaulets, or other means of ratification of your status.

Let's take that specific instance in to play.

I'm making two hundred dollars a year doing that, does it count? How about two thousand? How about twenty thousand?

I'm not saying where I stand there but let's just assume it's in the middle. I make more at my day job. I don't like my day job. I may leave my day job. Actually I can't leave my day job even if I wanted to. But let's say I could.

I have some aspirations in life. I want to do a couple of things that I could accomplish by being a professional writer. I just am trying to figure out whether or not I can claim professional writership status as of now.
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Honestly, I don't ever consider Ernst Hemingway a professional.
 
first hit

pro·fes·sion·al
prəˈfeSH(ə)n(ə)l/
adjective
adjective: professional
  1. 1.
    relating to or connected with a profession.
    "young professional people"
    synonyms: white-collar, nonmanual
    "people in professional occupations"
    antonyms: blue-collar
  2. 2.
    (of a person) engaged in a specified activity as one's main paid occupation rather than as a pastime.
    "a professional boxer"
    synonyms: paid, salaried
    "a professional rugby player"
    antonyms: amateur
noun
noun: professional; plural noun: professionals
1.
a person engaged or qualified in a profession.
"professionals such as lawyers and surveyors"
synonyms: white-collar worker, office worker
"affluent young professionals"

https://www.google.ca/search?q=defe...&oe=utf-8&gws_rd=cr&ei=xeYMWc2sB8WPjwSWjZqgDg
 
Actually, it depends on the definition of the entity requiring you to be a professional writer in order to qualify for the job you want. I've earned over 2 million in royalties since Dec 2011 writing sci fi novels that I self-publish on Amazon, but I don't qualify as a "professional writer" under the definitions used by most writer's associations simply because I haven't been dumb enough to sell the rights to my work to a publishing company that will give me peanuts for my work. A silly definition, if you ask me.

I agree with others that how you conduct yourself, and whether or not you get paid for what you do, are both logical definitions of "professional" anything. But in Sac-Arrow's situation, the definition is set by the potential employer, not logic.
 
Rykymus said:
Actually, it depends on the definition of the entity requiring you to be a professional writer in order to qualify for the job you want. I've earned over 2 million in royalties since Dec 2011 writing sci fi novels that I self-publish on Amazon, but I don't qualify as a "professional writer" under the definitions used by most writer's associations simply because I haven't been dumb enough to sell the rights to my work to a publishing company that will give me peanuts for my work. A silly definition, if you ask me.

I agree with others that how you conduct yourself, and whether or not you get paid for what you do, are both logical definitions of "professional" anything. But in Sac-Arrow's situation, the definition is set by the potential employer, not logic.
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You must be Ryk Brown then (just a guess, purely based on the spelling of your first name). I have read your first 12 episodes. Maybe I'll pick it up again. I stopped when you took a break and moved to some other stuff. It is pretty good reading. I didn't know you were a PoAer :)
 
Rykymus said:
Actually, it depends on the definition of the entity requiring you to be a professional writer in order to qualify for the job you want. I've earned over 2 million in royalties since Dec 2011 writing sci fi novels that I self-publish on Amazon, but I don't qualify as a "professional writer" under the definitions used by most writer's associations simply because I haven't been dumb enough to sell the rights to my work to a publishing company that will give me peanuts for my work. A silly definition, if you ask me.

I agree with others that how you conduct yourself, and whether or not you get paid for what you do, are both logical definitions of "professional" anything. But in Sac-Arrow's situation, the definition is set by the potential employer, not logic.
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I bow to you!

Wait, I'm following your model, I have friends that have gone the tradiational publishing route. They make a fraction of what I make for ten fold my sales. But I am nowhere near your league though. That is encouraging however.
 
I'm going with that's how you make your living.
 
Kritchlow said:
I'm going with that's how you make your living.
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Don't think that works. I know retired professionals. Or even part time ones. Even a few who work and don't need the money.

Hell, someday I may even be able to call myself an aviation professional when teaching, but I sure as hell won't be making a living doing it.

Rough numbers say the payback on the training is in about ten years, part time. Certainly not doing it for the money. LOL.
 
denverpilot said:
Don't think that works. I know retired professionals. Or even part time ones. Even a few who work and don't need the money.

Hell, someday I may even be able to call myself an aviation professional when teaching, but I sure as hell won't be making a living doing it.

Rough numbers say the payback on the training is in about ten years, part time. Certainly not doing it for the money. LOL.
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If you think CFI pay is terrible, you should see what live musical performance pays. You can make money in the studio if you're amazing, but almost no one makes enough money to live on in live performance alone. Jazz big band gigs are particularly bad; we're lucky if they cover gas money.
 
It's like the classic exchange of money for sex. There is a very thin line that separates the professional from otherwise. You pick up the tab at dinner it's okay. You hand over the cash to cover dinner at a later time it's not.

Or, if your masseuse allows you to go a little too far it's okay. If you are overcharged for your session, it's not. Whoever wrote all these rules must have also authored the PPL 'pro rata' limitations.
 
MAKG1 said:
If you think CFI pay is terrible, you should see what live musical performance pays. You can make money in the studio if you're amazing, but almost no one makes enough money to live on in live performance alone. Jazz big band gigs are particularly bad; we're lucky if they cover gas money.
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Oh I know. Music major and quit because it was either, "Be world class amazing at it"... I wasn't... or teach.

And Karen still does music for fun with her barbershop stuff, and she loses money every year... and the quartet gets paid for a number of gigs. Competition fees. Hotel rooms. Eating out when they're on the road. Fuel. Vehicle cost. And people balk at paying them a couple hundred bucks. Divided by four, it's not even enough to buy a nice dinner out.

They essentially are doing "paid charity" as a loss all the time. That's ok. Most of the gigs are at old folks homes and community events. Plus it keeps her hobby expensive enough that it doesn't make mine look quite so bad. Haha. :)
 
What's the difference between professional and expert?


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Being paid to perform hardly makes you a professional. I see it as being "top shelf" or "tier 1." As in, no other group of people working in your field is above you in performance.

A lot if people may call themselves "professionals," but I hardly see them as such. I also dont see it as something someone can designate themselves.
 
Cpt_Kirk said:
Being paid to perform hardly makes you a professional. I see it as being "top shelf" or "tier 1." As in, no other group of people working in your field is above you in performance.

A lot if people may call themselves "professionals," but I hardly see them as such. I also dont see it as something someone can designate themselves.
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So you're saying only some Doctors are professionals?

I mean, it does go along with the joke...

Know what you call the guy who graduated last in his Med School class? Doctor.

(Alter joke for any job. Last in Law School, last in anything... they still have the title.)
 
denverpilot said:
So you're saying only some Doctors are professionals?

I mean, it does go along with the joke...

Know what you call the guy who graduated last in his Med School class? Doctor.

(Alter joke for any job. Last in Law School, last in anything... they still have the title.)
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Our staff counsel's favorite joke: Q. What's the definition of a lawyer? A. A Jewish kid that can't stand the sight of blood.
 
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