When can you afford an airplane?

bflynn said:
Continuing this, if you make more than $34,000, you're a 1%er and the US poverty level is $12,060 for a single person household.

And despite being way above this, it's funny how the money comes in and goes right back out again.
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That we get to fly in any capacity at all makes us very fortunate people.
 
shinysideup said:
I know this is kind of a loaded question that can be answered in a thousand different ways, but what rule of thumb would you go by for being able to afford sole ownership of say a light piston single?

When you can afford to buy outright?
When you can afford to overhaul without taking a loan?
When you can own the plane and keep the lights on most days of the week?
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About the time you're ready to support and maintain a second wife.
 
bflynn said:
Continuing this, if you make more than $34,000, you're a 1%er and the US poverty level is $12,060 for a single person household.

And despite being way above this, it's funny how the money comes in and goes right back out again.
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To continue this, it probably means is that if you are a U.S. citizen, you are probably in that top 15% that was mentioned, whether you work for wages or not.
 
shinysideup said:
I was speaking more generally rather than in a (my) particular case, but for the sake of argument lets assume I'm considering a $80-100K airplane (M20J or similar). How much cash would you want to keep aside, and how much would you budget to operate it? I figured operating costs at around $20K/yr in my area (GTA) assuming 75 hours a year.
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Operating cost of $20k/year is more than I make. I'll never be able to afford an $80-$100k airplane.
That said, I do have an airplane which cost $17k to buy, and now have $20k in it. I keep it up by fixing what needs fixing when it needs fixing, and not defering anything. It's less expensive that way. I have a small amount saved up, in a seperate account for the airplane, and add to it when I can. Most repairs come out of pocket. So far, the biggest hit was an avionics upgrade from single nav/com to dual nav/com, dual GS, audio panel, and 4 place intercom. Nothing fancy, but very functional.
I think that there isn't any black/white, right/wrong, way to own an airplane. After all, it only costs money.
 
Even if you can afford to by, before you buy, REALLY, REALLY, REALLY come to grips with and are fully understanding of what your "mission" is going to be with that plane! I bought a mint condition 1979 P28A/181 in August 2015, with just over 2900 hours. Is a beautiful plane. I could have afforded a larger plane with larger engine, complex, etc, but I knew my "mission" was going to involve mostly trips of 300-500 miles at most (flying rescue dog flights), trips to wife's family in Wisconsin (we live in U.P. of Michigan), and just putzing around locally. From time to time I'm a wee bit envious of my pals with big Bonanzas, Dakotas, Commanches, etc, but at the end of the day my little Archer gets me where I'm going at good 'nuf speed, positively sips gas, and is easy to maintain. If I want to go across the USA, I take a scheduled airline. That being said, you can afford your own plane when you're sick of paying rent to someone else, when there's nothing available to rent (as is the case in Escanaba, MI), or you want the freedom to come and go as you please. If you have to count dollars (not pennies in GA) every month, then you probably cannot afford to buy. And if you buy it, FLY it!! There are many planes here at KESC whose engines are fired up only once a year for annual, if that! That, IMHO, is just plain stupid.
 
Velocity173 said:
Don't know I'd call it hate mail but he's gotten a bunch of mail from jealous people who believe he should spend his money on other things than "toys." Even said he should put as much time and effort into treating his patients as he does in his passion for a aviation. Really uncalled for since he was a well known cancer surgeon in the Tampa area. The sad thing is, these people don't realize GA needs people like him just as much as they need the scaled down version like us. Trying to tear down one because of a lofty ownership goal only does harm to the greater good of GA.

Anyway, his story:

https://www.flyingmag.com/gear-up-looking-for-new-airplane
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This is really true and I read his story many times before. Instead it's much easier for a person to try and bring a person down rather than letting it inspire you to do better, because you can.
 
For the above poster who talked about debt. I purchased a few Multifamily buildings (150 Units) 10 years ago with debt, I did this part time while still working the job I have today. I get positive monthly cash flow coming in even if I go to work, sleep and/or have maintenance issues. I'm not saying this to brag but to prove a point that not all debt is bad.
 
FloridaPilot said:
For the above poster who talked about debt. I purchased a few Multifamily buildings (150 Units) 10 years ago with debt, I did this part time while still working the job I have today. I get positive monthly cash flow coming in even if I go to work, sleep and/or have maintenance issues. I'm not saying this to brag but to prove a point that not all debt is bad.
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I looked into doing that several times; carrying a note never penciled out to positive cash flow. I'm sure there's a location bias in the math, especially regarding property taxes.
 
FloridaPilot said:
For the above poster who talked about debt. I purchased a few Multifamily buildings (150 Units) 10 years ago with debt, I did this part time while still working the job I have today. I get positive monthly cash flow coming in even if I go to work, sleep and/or have maintenance issues. I'm not saying this to brag but to prove a point that not all debt is bad.
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Not even a close comparison. I hear your point but revenue generating business debt is not the same as toy debt.
 
paflyer said:
I looked into doing that several times; carrying a note never penciled out to positive cash flow. I'm sure there's a location bias in the math, especially regarding property taxes.
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That's true to an extent. (IMO) Save your money another recession/crash is coming cash on hand is key, not just to save, inflation will eat the savings. You have to invest in something your money is going to work in. I purchased a few rentals during the crash but I couldn't get a lot because most lenders didn't loan at that time. This is an airplane board though so I will stop here. Investing, airplanes and computers are my favorite subjects.
 
I think for me the calculus would be can I afford to eat the cost with no loss to retirement/general living. IE if the faa said your cessna/piper/w/e is grounded for life could I eat the full cost/payment for a few years then yes I could afford it.
 
FloridaPilot said:
For the above poster who talked about debt. I purchased a few Multifamily buildings (150 Units) 10 years ago with debt, I did this part time while still working the job I have today. I get positive monthly cash flow coming in even if I go to work, sleep and/or have maintenance issues. I'm not saying this to brag but to prove a point that not all debt is bad.
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paflyer said:
I looked into doing that several times; carrying a note never penciled out to positive cash flow. I'm sure there's a location bias in the math, especially regarding property taxes.
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Timing affects the outcome of the rain dance. :)
 
I very much enjoyed reading all the commentary on this thread. It was entertaining to read in one long pass..

I have a slightly different perspective on the subject: my mom passed away at the ripe old age of 40. I was 20. She was mis-diagnosed for almost a year by her doctor when she had cancer, and it ended up being the right amount of time to spread and wipe out any chance of survival. While she made that long, slow fade to black with our attendance, I had a lot of conversations that otherwise wouldn't happen. In the last couple days she offered one last commentary:

Your father and I put off many fun trips and purchases to save money for later in life. Look at how that's worked out. Live your life, enjoy everything you can while you're young enough to experience it.
 
sardonux said:
Your father and I put off many fun trips and purchases to save money for later in life. Look at how that's worked out. Live your life, enjoy everything you can while you're young enough to experience it.
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My grandmother passed unexpectedly right after they both retired. They had bought a nice camper and were going to tour the country. At the funeral, my grandfather looked me straight in the eye and said "somtimes your golden years aren't so golden" and later told me to enjoy life along the way. The camper got sold, my grandfather never traveled, never really left the house much, never re-married. He lived until 94, the last 29 years without her.
 
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