What's the latest on the "Common Purpose" cost sharing system?

Commander Dave said:
Mark,

Do you know Vernon Hein? He was my DPE for my Multi-Commercial and he pretty much used those exact words in relation to Commercial Ops.

"If it walks like a duck, talks like a duck - then it's probably a duck..."

Too funny to hear that from someone else
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Don't know about you, but that's a pretty common expression...I refer to the common-purpose concept as a "duck test" whenever I describe it to someone...also works for CFI's giving out logbooks for Pt. 134 1/2 ops.
 
Everskyward said:
It would be interesting to know how the FAA even found out about this.
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Typically, for a scenario like this, it involves a complaint to the FAA by the passenger over the amount charged or the conduct of the flight itself. So if you're gonna do this, at least make sure you don't scare your passenger with either your flying or your fuel bill.
 
I almost hate to keep this thread going - Even though the information was quite good.

Capt' Ron - great job - you definitely know your stuff - hope to meet up with you someday.

I don't collect money for flights - I fly because I enjoy it, and take others because I enjoy it, and believe they will too.

I am often offered money for flights, to which I bring up the shared expences rule, but again still do not take any money.

I do have a question regardingthis however, and I understand my interppretation means little or NOTHING, and that the FAA will take whatever action it feels like taking on that particular day (this has been proven time and time through the legal rulings handed out by the FAA)

But,

My destination is almost always the air. I want to fly to get that burger? No, I could have done that here, or at home, or McDonalds. My trip entails me going to the airport, preparing the aircraft and heading up into the wild blue yonder. Where I land is merely a consquence (not that I haven't decided before I left)

If I were to take a friend flying, their destination is likely the air as well. I choose to go to this place for Italian food, or that place for the burger, but our trip (the one we mutually wanted to take) was up into the air. For that trip I feel I could rightly share the expenses of the flight in accordance with the regulations.

I would feel confident in my beliefs should I ever be tested by the FAA, and would stand proudly as they likely told me I was incorrect in doing so. But I would still believe I was right (without my license of course) and would defend my beliefs.

So, I still don't share the expenses of flight, but I do believe I would be just in doing so.

Very lastly, I don't think the FAA really intended for this to be so difficult. I believe they are honestly fine with you sharing the expenses with your buddy or a friend. It's the stranger, or remote friend that you share expenses with that raises concerns and rightfully so.
 
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Commander Dave said:
My destination is almost always the air. I want to fly to get that burger? No, I could have done that here, or at home, or McDonalds. My trip entails me going to the airport, preparing the aircraft and heading up into the wild blue yonder. Where I land is merely a consquence (not that I haven't decided before I left)

If I were to take a friend flying, their destination is likely the air as well. I choose to go to this place for Italian food, or that place for the burger, but our trip (the one we mutually wanted to take) was up into the air. For that trip I feel I could rightly share the expenses of the flight in accordance with the regulations.
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Sounds a bit like that old line about never being lost if you don't care where you're going. Yes, I think you're right, as long as your buddy doesn't tell the FAA he chose the destination and you took him there at his behest.
Very lastly, I don't think the FAA really intended for this to be so difficult. I believe they are honestly fine with you sharing the expenses with your buddy or a friend. It's the stranger, or remote friend that you share expenses with that raises concerns and rightfully so.
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I think you're right -- it's a case where a couple of bozos trying to find a way to get others to pay for their flying screw things up for all the rest of us.
 
Palmpilot said:
According to the document at the link in my previous post, the FAA ruled in 1981 that CAP aircraft are civil aircraft, not public aircraft, and are therefore subject to the Federal aviation regulations.
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The CAP planes I was communicating with a week ago on a search mission had N numbers on them. Clearly civil registration.
 
Ghery said:
The CAP planes I was communicating with a week ago on a search mission had N numbers on them. Clearly civil registration.
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Public aircraft may also have N-numbers. Civil registration doesn't equal civil aircraft. Example: Military surplus helos operated by state/county/municipal law enforcement agencies -- N-registered public aircraft.
 
Commander Dave said:
Mark,

Do you know Vernon Hein? He was my DPE for my Multi-Commercial and he pretty much used those exact words in relation to Commercial Ops.

"If it walks like a duck, talks like a duck - then it's probably a duck..."

Too funny to hear that from someone else
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As Jeff noted, it's a very common expression than has been use for quite a while and not just in aviation. Go and Google the expression and you'll find it used in many disciplines. It's hardly original from either me or your DPE.

And it really does apply here.
 
I've heard the expression before. Just found it interesting to be used in reference to the commercial ops for aircraft.

My DPE used the exact words, and he even called it the "Duck Test." Quite ironic I thought.
 
Commander Dave said:
Mark,

Do you know Vernon Hein? He was my DPE for my Multi-Commercial and he pretty much used those exact words in relation to Commercial Ops.

"If it walks like a duck, talks like a duck - then it's probably a duck..."

Too funny to hear that from someone else
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Sorry Dave, but it's not unique to Vernon! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duck_test

edit: Oh, I didn't see the other posts also saying it was a common expression. Ah well. At least I gave a cite! :)
 
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Ron Levy said:
Not to be confused with the "Zebra" test -- just because it has stripes doesn't mean it's a zebra.
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I've been known to hunt zebras myself...that one's when someone is looking for complex/exotic solutions (zebras) when a simple straighforward (horse) solution is staring them in the face.
 
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