Whats the cheapest FIKI bird?

[FORANE]

It's that time of year again. The time that I end up cancelling flights and getting speeding tickets. This nonsense tends to lead me to thinking about a more winter friendly aircraft.

What is the cheapest FIKI aircraft to purchase, own, operate and maintain?
Typical mission is just me solo with flights of 100-500 nm range out of Northeast TN.

 

[Walt]

Mooney's as far back as late 90s were FIKI.

 

[James331]

Look at 210s too.

 

[Mtns2Skies]

Not sure how much it costs but you can convert any of these planes to FIKI:

https://www.caviceprotection.com/products-services/ice-protection-systems

 

[ktup-flyer]

Probably an Aztec

 

[brian]]

I've been thinking that if you are apt to see ice, it might be best to get two motors. I'm a total novice, but comments from booted baron and C310 owners has been interesting.

 

[Captain]

These birds handle the ice pretty well. The 'flight' part leaves a bit to be desired...

 

[Ted]

Do you care about certified FIKI or de-ice? If you want FIKI, I'd look at a 310R.

If you're fine with "full de-ice", short nose 310 (N, P, Q) or Aztec.

 

[Mike5250]

These birds handle the ice pretty well. The 'flight' part leaves a bit to be desired...

If I remember the other thread, you're digging animal logos on airplanes. Maybe just print this guy out and stick him on the side of any plane?

 

[FORANE]

If I remember the other thread, you're digging animal logos on airplanes. Maybe just print this guy out and stick him on the side of any plane?

That's a nice bird right there for sure and a good memory. The Lancair is currently with the painter awaiting a stripping and repaint. Still have not decided on the paint scheme.

Some of the planes mentioned here had come to mind. A 6 seat twin would be great to have on a few rare occasions, but cheap to own and operate???
I guess coming from the ultra efficient and relatively cheap planes I currently have, everything will be a fair bit more costly.

 

[ktup-flyer]

There is a full de-ice legacy on controller right now. I've always liked N2AA's paint.

 

[Ted]

Any certified FIKI bird will cost a lot to operate.

Since you have experimentals, have you considered trying to build a de-ice system? I've had some ideas for that if I ever built one.

 

[Henning]

It's that time of year again. The time that I end up cancelling flights and getting speeding tickets. This nonsense tends to lead me to thinking about a more winter friendly aircraft.

What is the cheapest FIKI aircraft to purchase, own, operate and maintain?
Typical mission is just me solo with flights of 100-500 nm range out of Northeast TN.

Seneca II

 

[Tom-D]

It's that time of year again. The time that I end up cancelling flights and getting speeding tickets. This nonsense tends to lead me to thinking about a more winter friendly aircraft.

What is the cheapest FIKI aircraft to purchase, own, operate and maintain?
Typical mission is just me solo with flights of 100-500 nm range out of Northeast TN.

Define "cheapest"

 

[Henning]

I've been thinking that if you are apt to see ice, it might be best to get two motors. I'm a total novice, but comments from booted baron and C310 owners has been interesting.

The lowest cost FIKI plane all around I think is the Seneca II, although an Aztek is probably strong competition. FIKI Baron is a 58 and probably twice as much, there are 55 Barons that are DeIce. Similarly the 310R is FIKI and probably the most expensive of them for the same model year, however some of the older 310s were also DeIce. I'm not personally a fan of alcohol slinging systems. You can probably get a FIKI 210 for the price of a Baron and a FIKI PA-46 for the price of a 310R, but you give up a lot of reserve horsepower performance, and supply redundancy in IMC. You can get an older FIKI SR-22 for the price of a good 310R as well.

 

[FORANE]

Any certified FIKI bird will cost a lot to operate.

Since you have experimentals, have you considered trying to build a de-ice system? I've had some ideas for that if I ever built one.

We do like experimentals. I have read about a few systems that folks have added to experimentals but it seemed they were quite expensive, and it would still be a non-fiki experimental. While my risk tolerance will allow me to fly around in a 90 knot over the fence single that has a composite fuel tank in my lap between the panel and the motor, I prefer knowing that if I get into ice I am in a plane blessed by the FAA to do so. I think my wife would entertain the idea of selling the RV for a FIKI plane.

Define "cheapest"

What is the cheapest FIKI aircraft to purchase, own, operate and maintain?
Typical mission is just me solo with flights of 100-500 nm range out of Northeast TN.

I can add the flights would be home on Friday and back to work location on Sunday likely 2-3 weekends per month between October or November until about March or April. Don't suppose I can get much cheaper than the Lancair. I suspected just as Ted stated that none of the FIKI planes would qualify as cheap to own and operate.

I know, I need an Aerostar! Would love to have an Aerostar but with the costs involved it starts to become a question of if I can justify working away from home at all.

Some of these I really would not have considered but appreciate the posts as they get me to consider what I would not have otherwise.

 

[Phoenix]

Netjet card.

 

[Dr. O]

When it absolutely positively doesn't make any difference to your heirs if you get there or not, fly into known ice in a personal plane.
If you do matter to your heirs, join a frequent flier mile club.

I see Tennessee in your sig. That scares me. My suspicion is that you folks from down-there don't speak ice fluently. Those of us from the Great Lakes do (well, the ones that survived anyway)
Local bone carpenter took his P-210 and flew on a day the rest of us were hanging out in the pilots lounge drinking coffee and telling lies. It went well until he descended into the cloud lfying the ILS24 Approach. In the time it took to go from the IAP at 3400 agl to leaving the cloud at 300 agl, he iced up to the point that the line boy had to go out and chip the ice around the door to let the guy (and his wife and child ) out of the plane.

 

[Ted]

Henning, the 310R isn't going to cost more to operate than a 58 Baron. Maybe more than a Seneca II, but the extra speed ends up making the $/mile balance out. I also doubt that you'd see a true operating cost difference as the TSIO-360s on the Seneca are unreliable. The benefit is turbos, which I would argue aren't necessary. Remember, slower means more time that you're in the ice, so that's a consideration. Higher is not always better.

 

[Henning]

Henning, the 310R isn't going to cost more to operate than a 58 Baron. Maybe more than a Seneca II, but the extra speed ends up making the $/mile balance out. I also doubt that you'd see a true operating cost difference as the TSIO-360s on the Seneca are unreliable. The benefit is turbos, which I would argue aren't necessary. Remember, slower means more time that you're in the ice, so that's a consideration. Higher is not always better.

I was referring to the purchase prices currently, I agree that operations wise it's all similar and difference insignificant overall with the ability to favor any of them on pure chance.

 

[Ted]

I was referring to the purchase prices currently, I agree that operations wise it's all similar and difference insignificant overall with the ability to favor any of them on pure chance.

I don't know why you think purchase prices favor the Baron. A quick look at Controller shows the 310Rs to be cheaper for equivalents, especially FIKI.

 

[Henning]

I don't know why you think purchase prices favor the Baron. A quick look at Controller shows the 310Rs to be cheaper for equivalents, especially FIKI.

I was just looking and catching some 58 Barons FIKI for $125. Is it only the T-310Rs that have gone up? I haven't looked in a while, but Rs were $150+ unless they were shot. Regardless it's all pretty similar across brands, pick a HP & Capability level, and it's going cost about the same.

 

[Ted]

I was just looking and catching some 58 Barons FIKI for $125. Is it only the T-310Rs that have gone up? I haven't looked in a while, but Rs were $150+ unless they were shot.

I saw a 1970 de-iced Baron for $125k. That's not actually FIKI (which started in the mid 70s) and, again, is not equivalent to an R model.

There's a huge variety in 310 prices depending on equipment and you don't need a T310R for FIKI. Last year I provided advice on two naturally aspirated FIKI 310R purchases. One was $125k, the other north of $200k. Primary difference was the panel, mid time engines on both.

 

[Henning]

I saw a 1970 de-iced Baron for $125k. That's not actually FIKI (which started in the mid 70s) and, again, is not equivalent to an R model.

There's a huge variety in 310 prices depending on equipment and you don't need a T310R for FIKI. Last year I provided advice on two naturally aspirated FIKI 310R purchases. One was $125k, the other north of $200k. Primary difference was the panel, mid time engines on both.

I thought the R was the only one certified for FIKI because prior the certification didn't apply. What model did it start with?

The 2 58 Barons I came across were later 70s with hot props and plate and advertised FIKI.

 

[Ted]

You need an R for FIKI in the 310 world. You don't need a T310R. Not all Rs were turbo.

 

[Henning]

You need an R for FIKI in the 310 world. You don't need a T310R. Not all Rs were turbo.

Right, that's what I thought, if you need a FIKI cert to operate (not sure why, but the OP specified it needed FIKI) then in a 310, you need to buy an R.

 

[Art VanDelay]

Cheapest way to fly in known icing conditions ? That's easy - Southwest Airlines ! Seriously, as a guy that used to HAVE to fly bank checks in an old beat up Turbo Aztec I can tell you - there is NOTHING fun or even remotely enjoyable about flying a GA type aircraft in icing conditions. Sit back and have a beer in a fake leather seat instead.