What would make you rent more?

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Z06_Mir

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Example 1: Flight school posts on Facebook that today between 4pm and 8pm your favorite 172 is $20 off per hour. Would you jump at the opportunity for some spur of the moment flying?

Example 2: Flight school has regular specials, a "Happy Hour" of sorts for flying. So if Tuesday mornings are regularly under-utilized a regularly weekly special of "Get the Piper Archer for the Piper Warrior price on Tuesdays from 7am to noon".

Example 3: Would you be inclined to change where you rent from (assuming the two places are located on the same field) for a special price? Like "Get checked out in our 172R and the ground instruction fee is waived if your zip-code is xxxxx-xxxxx"

Example 4: A flight school joining OpenAirplane. Though since OpenAirplane does take a cut (and rightfully so) prices are slightly higher than standard.
 
None of the above, but #1 comes the closest.
 
Interesting question. I am currently facing some decisions on this topic. I rent from two different FBO's at the same airport. I am currently trying to decide if I should stick with one, or try and rent from each on occasion. Per your examples...

1) If this was a regular occurrence, I would probably try to take advantage of it. If this was a spur of the moment kind of thing, I would not.
2) Same as number one.
3) If the only thing holding me back from switching was the cost of the checkout, then yes.
4) The "open airplane" concept is really cool, but the extra cost is not something I will/can tolerate. Also, I don't travel enough away from my home airport for it to help. On the off chance I am travelling far from home and want to go rent a plane, I'd just take an instructor along.
 
bflynn said:
None of the above, but #1 comes the closest.
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As a renter, what would increase your aircraft utilization? I understand that most people are price conscious, but lowering rates on everything to up utilization doesn't always net more profit.
 
#1 and waiving of overnight charges when on a multi-day journey.
 
I flew a lot more when I owned. I don't think it is a cost thing with me at all, but rather an availability and convenience thing. I did a lot of spur of the moment flying, as my schedule opened up, when I owned. Planning in advance doesn't work well for me (I own a couple of businesses). Based on that, I would say #1 comes the closest, if I happen to be available when I get the message.
 
AggieMike88 said:
#1 and waiving of overnight charges when on a multi-day journey.
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That is definitely something we are considering during lower business times. Unfortunately there are people who book airplanes a month out for a weekend and thus this isn't always possible, but it is something we are considering when available.
 
If the discounts are scheduled in advance, so that people can plan around them, that may increase people renting in those time periods. It would change the times I would rent. Would I rent more? Maybe. It depends on how much cheaper it was. But that might just move the times when existing renters are renting, not increase the number of times pilots are renting the planes.

If I still rented and carried renters insurance, I'd take the local airfields J3 up if there was a cheap evening to do so on a warm summer night.
 
For me, none of the above, because I have access to my own aircraft. But it seems to me that a regularly scheduled discount rate would be the way to go to get people to rent during the times when you have a hard time filling the schedule. For example, charge less for rental and training during the weekday than on the weekend (and maybe evenings) so that those that can will shift their rental/instruction times to your down period, and those that can't will have a better chance that the aircraft is available when they have time to fly.
 
any I guess. I'm paying $125 an hour for an old 172M with a crappy GNC 300. Beat that and I'll rent it lol
 
Frequent renter benefits. Rent so many hours and earn 1 or 2 free hours.

Block pay benefits. Put a big enough amount on account, and the FBO matches a certain percentage in cash, or hours of usage.
 
Z06_Mir said:
Example 4: A flight school joining OpenAirplane. Though since OpenAirplane does take a cut (and rightfully so) prices are slightly higher than standard.
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For me this would be mainly interesting from the four proposed example. I'm mainly renting when away from home, so an easy checkout procedure would be the most important thing.
 
Example 4 also begs the question... whose business are you trying to increase? The locals in your immediate area, or those who are "in town" and have time to go fly?

One item I've learned about business is, unless you have the extra staff and capital, focusing on a smaller number of things and doing them well will gain more profit than doing lots of things and doing them mediocre.
 
Just reduce the hourly rate to something that a normal pilot can afford. You'll see amazing utilization rates.
 
I like number 2 the most of those examples. What would really make me fly more is a nice 150/152 since 80% of my flying is me and a pax and probably 60% local. 172 rates at my club are reasonable but I'm just paying more to haul empty seats.
 
Quite frankly, I hate gimmicky crap like special deal only between certain hours, etc. What would make me rent more (if I were renting)? It's simply, actually: decent, well-maintained (read: most everything actually functions like it is supposed to) airplanes with reasonably-recent avionics (430+) and cosmetics that aren't embarrassing, rented by a company with reasonably friendly people and non-oppressive common-sense based policies. Surprisingly, this concept is lost on most businesses.
 
AggieMike88 said:
Frequent renter benefits. Rent so many hours and earn 1 or 2 free hours.

Block pay benefits. Put a big enough amount on account, and the FBO matches a certain percentage in cash, or hours of usage.
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Block discounts would have been nice when I was renting...
 
I like non run-of-the-mill planes. Planes other than 152/172s and Cherokees get me excited about renting.
 
I agree with the gimmick thing....I hate them and is smells like one. Just do a Friday night Dawg roast....throw some dogs on the grill and put out some drinks and offer a 30 minute group talk. Maybe work thru the top ten Nall items (pick one a night) and how they can be prevented. Let this develop into a friendship thing for everyone to gather like a happy hour. Cultivate the friendships and a gathering place....and your business will follow without the sales gimmicks.

You really don't want to be in a position to sell on price....but sell on value and get more cause your equipment and services are better.

From a business standpoint if your offerings appear expensive....consider adding a cheap time builder to your line....when able. Maybe add a bare bones Cherokee 140 or C-150?
 
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I personally like the random time rental discount....that is, if it was offered at the place right by my house. I work from home often and if it was slow I could sneak out for lunch or an early morning flight. but that's just for me, I don't see it being a huge draw.
 
On my aircraft, I'm only projecting a net from the aircraft of $18/hour. A $20 discount would be hard to swing. I think that's true for a lot of rentals...there just isn't much room to lower the prices much.
 
bradg33 said:
Quite frankly, I hate gimmicky crap like special deal only between certain hours, etc. What would make me rent more (if I were renting)? It's simply, actually: decent, well-maintained (read: most everything actually functions like it is supposed to) airplanes with reasonably-recent avionics (430+) and cosmetics that aren't embarrassing, rented by a company with reasonably friendly people and non-oppressive common-sense based policies. Surprisingly, this concept is lost on most businesses.
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That's what I was going to say. Assuming there are multiple options I'd be most apt to rent from the place that has the most well-maintained airplanes for a relatively reasonable price.

The place I learned to fly was a Cessna pilot center that had a fleet of relatively new 172s. Across the field was another flight school that had a fleet of whatever they could find that kind of ran and was kind of airworthy. After paying a $100 fee for a six month membership to a "flying club" at the Cessna pilot center the hourly rate was within $10/hour of the other place. Why would I fly clapped out junk just to save a few bucks? In over 100 hours of flying time I put on those Cessnas there were no canceled flights due to mechanical issues while nowhere I've rented or used airplanes from since that has an older fleet has been anywhere close to the same dispatch rate.

Edit: One thing aside from what I already wrote that would make me more interested in renting an airplane again is renting something different/unusual. Everyone has 152s, 172s, Cherokees, etc. While I realize that those are the staple of the rental industry, having something unique and cheap to rent would interest me and possibly a lot of other people too. For example, there are no tailwheel airplanes available for rent in my area, if you put something like a Champ on the line that was affordable I'd be there.
 
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It's been a while since I rented.


However having a post 5pm discount would be awesome, saves money and maximizes the aircraft on the down hours of the day, plus most renters would do well do get some more night hours.




Side note, the best dispatch rate plane I ever rented was built in the 40s.
 
Flexibility (e.g. not having to schedule) and availability is a big thing to me, plus the the planes I would like to rent (182's, Debs, etc...) are much, much more the the standard 172.

For a while, when I was in between planes I was renting from an outfit that had a DA40, and they had an online scheduling system and you got an electronic keycard for the office, so you could pretty much take it whenever it was free even if nobody was there. Sort of like a club but it wasn't a club.
 
AggieMike88 said:
Frequent renter benefits. Rent so many hours and earn 1 or 2 free hours.
Block pay benefits. Put a big enough amount on account, and the FBO matches a certain percentage in cash, or hours of usage.
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Agree, a "platinum" membership level of some kind would do the trick. Your regular customers have restrictions about runway length, night flying, and a certain hourly rate. The "platinum" members are treated like owners (and by the way you can even charge a premium for this if you make it worth it - such as by giving priority reservation (e.g., I can bump another renter).
 
I'll throw something else in the mix here. I have no idea how feasible this is, or if it logistically possible or cost effective for an FBO, but...

My last flight was a short local flight. It was on a Saturday morning and the airport was VERY busy. I kept my eye on the hobbs meter and I burned up 0.5 hours from the time I started the engine until we were cleared for takeoff. I am going to speculate that the main cost drivers on the operation of the airplane are fuel and cost for the engine reserve. The TBO on the engine comes from the tach, not the hobbs, and the fuel consumption is MUCH lower while the engine is at a low RPM setting for taxi, and while waiting to depart. It sure would be nice if there was some way to take that into account. It really stinks to pay $68 to use the plane before I even get it off the ground.
 
How were you on the ground that long?
 
My thoughts have been said - gimmick is the right word. I'm not going to troll a facebook page hoping that you've got a plane sitting around and you're willing to discount it to fly it. That might work for some people, not me.

It needs to be a regular thing. I've used a block time bargain before at 3%, but unless your customers really trust you, it needs to be refundable. Off hour discounts are interesting, but handle overlap fairly.

Bottom line - have good and fair policies and price it right. Do what you can to cut internal cost, internal cost cuts = profit as long as they don't impact service. I'm sure you know how to do a supply/demand curve and determine your best profit.
 
Wow 0.5 waiting to get in the air really blows.
 
I dunno, having a broken plane seems to be making me rent more.
 
I've waited that long. If you've got long runways, taxi could be 10 minutes. Radio calls, listening to ATIS, warm-up, IFR clearance, another 5 minutes. Reserve a few minutes for run-up. Then, wait for IFR release at a busy airport. Yeah, a half hour doesn't seem too hard to get to.

Surprisingly, tach vs. Hobbs is usually because renters prefer Hobbs, although most don't realize it. Several tests with the two resulted in the system we have today. Renters didn't really understand tach, and showed a preference for Hobbs with their feet: Planes priced such that tach and Hobbs resulted in the same average bill had renters overwhelmingly choosing the Hobbs aircraft. Go figure, as I always preferred tach when renting.

For instance, my aircraft rents for $153 per Hobbs. To get the same margin on tach, I'd have to charge $217 per tach. (It's really bad with training aircraft, as the ratio between tach and Hobbs is large.) No one looks at $217 per hour on a 172SP as a reasonable charge.
 
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James331 said:
How were you on the ground that long?
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.4-.5 on on the ground on weekends at my airport is the norm. Really sucked when I rented/when I was a student. I either avoided flying on the weekends or just flew before 8am or after 6pm.
 
James331 said:
How were you on the ground that long?
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I've been wondering the same thing! :)

The airport was SUPER busy. I was number three in the runup area. The two people in front of me took quite a long time to clear out. On top of that, there was quite a bit of landing traffic that had to be come in and land before I could take off.

When my runup was finally done, I rolled up to the hold short line and waited for a plane on final to land. Once he passed me, I waited a few moments, then radioed tower that I was holding short and ready to go. I was expecting a takeoff clearance, but got a "hold short". Sure enough, 10 seconds later, I saw another plane turning base to final.

This flight (with a T&G at KIWA and KFFZ, and a full stop back at KCHD) chewed up 1.1 on the Hobbs.

https://skyvector.com/?ll=33.364736...369&chart=121&zoom=3&fpl= KCHD KIWA KFFZ KCHD

I could have done it faster in my car. Average speed in the plane was 27 nm/hr. It would have been faster in my car... but the view wouldn't have been as good :)
 
jordane93 said:
.4-.5 on on the ground on weekends at my airport is the norm. Really sucked when I rented/when I was a student. I either avoided flying on the weekends or just flew before 8am or after 6pm.
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Maybe I just need to stop flying on Saturday mornings!
 
I would definitely switch to a FBO that offered something like "every 10th flight is free"

I wouldn't mind driving an extra 15-20min for that.
 
I pay $110 for a 172M that has a 430W. I am one of maybe 2 people besides students who fly this guys plane. He is retired and just does some CFIing here and there. The plane flies maybe 5 or 10 hours a month during a busy good weather month so can get it most anytime I like. At some point though that will not be an option hope to own or have another arrangement by then.

As to your question there is a big school here who rents their 152 for $79 bucks an hour during certain months. If it wasn't flying in and out of a class C and an hour and 15 minute drive to get there instead of 45 minutes it would be very tempting. That is cheap flying. I would say run a special for a month or two or I also like the fly 10 get one free idea.
 
As my weekly allowable spending cash varies---I like the arrangement I currently have---I pay for each months flying at the next month...1 payment a month makes me go out more since can budget a bit easier that way.

For regular rentals--a frequent renter discount would be awesome.
 
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