what would make a good plane for x-country flying

[midcap]

did some research on the Comanche 260s and it seems like a hell of a lot of plane for the price. Does everything I need it to do and is well within budget. There is also a really good Piper shop a town over to do Mx on the plane.

I saw this quote from a review.

With full fuel (90 gallons) we can carry 850+ pounds approximately 950 NM with VFR reserves. Cruise is typically 160 knots at 75%

If I had the bladder and the skills, I could technically go from L83 to KISM in a straight line and have plenty reserves left in the tank. It would be slightly over a 3 hour flight. All of that open gulf water would make for a nervous flight.

 

[midcap]

Boeing 777 are pretty good I hear.

There's a lot of great options out there for sure. Personally, I found the comfort, automation, and safety features of the Cirrus to be unmatched so that's the direction I'm going.

those cirrus are very nice planes, just way out of the budget.

 

[midcap]

I doubt it, just make sure you get a good prebuy. I have a RG plane and it's really not that big of a deal.

Having about 1300hrs on the engine is a little on the high side for me, I'd look at the other one posted that only had a couple hundred TSMO

yeah I noticed that about the TSMO. I'd want to find somthing closer to 300-500.

 

[James331]

This one looks soild. He says 158 kt cruise all day long

http://www.controller.com/listings/aircraft/for-sale/1413801/1963-piper-comanche-250

Is the Mx on the gears going to be a check book killer?

I doubt it, just make sure you get a good prebuy. I have a RG plane and it's really not that big of a deal.

Having about 1300hrs on the engine is a little on the high side for me, I'd look at the other one posted that only had a couple hundred TSMO


Check this one out, for what it has its a really good deal, especially if you can knock his price down.

http://www.trade-a-plane.com/mobile...MANCHE+250&listing_id=2181818&s-type=aircraft

Plus it's for a GNS430W Autopilot with GPSS, this thing is really ready to rock and roll, I'd hit him at like 50k and see where it goes.


As far as overhaul prices go, here's heart of Texas' price sheet

http://www.hotwaircraft.com/site/92829b4d566e460aaf3346082aca4b4b/default?url=http://hotwaircraft.com/NO_SURPRISE_PRICING.html#3035

 

[Ted]

what is the MOH going to run on that 0-540? 20-25k?

Depends on who does it, some decision you make (overhauled cylinders vs. new, etc.), and what's wrong with the engine when they tear into it. But that is a good ballpark.

 

[midcap]

this is what I found for an O-540

O-540 $15,995.00

that's not bad at all.

 

[danhagan]

I know I had a Mooney thread a while back but I think I would rather not deal with retractable gear when starting out.

So, what planes should I be looking at? Occupant weight would be around 630 pounds and 3 people at the most. Speed is nice but cost of Mx is even better.

I was looking at Cherokee 180's and Cessna 172's.

Grumman Tiger has a load carrying capacity of 630 pounds WITH full fuel (51 gallons useable) at 135 knots (no retract gear). I plan using 630 pounds as max Pax/luggage weight... I had things cleaned up a couple of years ago and can load to 646 now (but never do - I'm normally solo). W&B is dirt simple (no more than 130lbs in the baggage area and not more than 300 total behind the front seats). I have an app I downloaded and put my arm and moments into that also calculates, but it comes out to the above anyway. Fuel burn for me at 8500 and 9500 MSL is usually 8.8 GPH (higher when lower).

Annuals are in-expensive. All takeoffs are no-flaps by POH, rotate 60 MPH fly ground effect to 85 MPH then climb (I climb at 100 MPH Vy for cylinder cooling as they are tight cowled and run hot). Brakes are different as there are separate master cylinders on both pilot and co-pilot side. Plane is castoring nose wheel which takes all of about 5 minutes taxiing to get used to ... I bought it about 6 years ago and have around 500 hours in it ... nearly all long XC (I don't do much local flying).

Am considering trading it for an RV6 or RV7, only because of the nearly constant solo flights and service ceiling of 13,800.

 

[midcap]

Grumman Tiger has a load carrying capacity of 630 pounds WITH full fuel (51 gallons useable) at 135 knots (no retract gear). I plan using 630 pounds as max Pax/luggage weight... I had things cleaned up a couple of years ago and can load to 646 now (but never do - I'm normally solo). W&B is dirt simple (no more than 130lbs in the baggage area and not more than 300 total behind the front seats). I have an app I downloaded and put my arm and moments into that also calculates, but it comes out to the above anyway. Fuel burn for me at 8500 and 9500 MSL is usually 8.8 GPH (higher when lower).

Annuals are in-expensive. All takeoffs are no-flaps by POH, rotate 60 MPH fly ground effect to 85 MPH then climb (I climb at 100 MPH Vy for cylinder cooling as they are tight cowled and run hot). Brakes are different as there are separate master cylinders on both pilot and co-pilot side. Plane is castoring nose wheel which takes all of about 5 minutes taxiing to get used to ... I bought it about 6 years ago and have around 500 hours in it ... nearly all long XC (I don't do much local flying).

Am considering trading it for an RV6 or RV7, only because of the nearly constant solo flights and service ceiling of 13,800.

I think biggest issue would be finding someone to work on it around here.

 

[ktup-flyer]

Velocity SE

[/url]

 

[danhagan]

I think biggest issue would be finding someone to work on it around here.

The only things different then the Cessna class are:

1. Have to give the Mx a PDF on how to handle and torque the nose gear at annual and for inspection
2. Dual master cylinders. If they attempt to fill from below (at the tire) and introduce air, its a NIGHTMARE to get the air out of the cross over tubes of the dual cylinders. My mechanic learned this the hard way on his first annual and never made that mistake again.

 

[midcap]

Velocity SE

[/url]

I can promise you that my wife would never let me fly in somthing I would have to put together.

 

[midcap]

The only things different then the Cessna class are:

1. Have to give the Mx a PDF on how to handle and torque the nose gear at annual and for inspection
2. Dual master cylinders. If they attempt to fill from below (at the tire) and introduce air, its a NIGHTMARE to get the air out of the cross over tubes of the dual cylinders. My mechanic learned this the hard way on his first annual and never made that mistake again.

I'd imagine parts cost the same as everyone else?

 

[danhagan]

I'd imagine parts cost the same as everyone else?

Dirt simple Lycoming 360 engine and accessories. As far as Tiger specific parts, I've never had any issues, but if I needed one FletchAIR near San Antonio has everything.

 

[mapasha]

I would really recommend a Cherokee Six. Mine was a 260. Easy to fly, HUGE cabin, reliable and rugged, cheap to insure. 135 knots. I loved mine. Sold in March of this year for $60k. 500 hrs on engine, 100 hrs on a 3 bladed new Hartzell, complete new leather interior, GPS, decent radios, new brakes, etc, etc. Only sold mine because the mission changed.
Biggest trip was adults Iowa to New Mexico for 6 days. Everyone was comfortable and no one had any complaints besides the turbulence on a particular leg of the journey. 76 gallons of useful fuel at 14 gallons per hour.
Good luck on your search.

 

[ktup-flyer]

I can promise you that my wife would never let me fly in somthing I would have to put together.

Plenty already put together

 

[3 in the green]

this is what I found for an O-540

O-540 $15,995.00

that's not bad at all.

That seems REALLY low. I believe an O-300 is at least that.

 

[3 in the green]

I would really recommend a Cherokee Six. Mine was a 260. Easy to fly, HUGE cabin, reliable and rugged, cheap to insure. 135 knots. I loved mine. Sold in March of this year for $60k. 500 hrs on engine, 100 hrs on a 3 bladed new Hartzell, complete new leather interior, GPS, decent radios, new brakes, etc, etc. Only sold mine because the mission changed.
Biggest trip was adults Iowa to New Mexico for 6 days. Everyone was comfortable and no one had any complaints besides the turbulence on a particular leg of the journey. 76 gallons of useful fuel at 14 gallons per hour.
Good luck on your search.

How does the Six handle the bumps? I'd imagine its size soaks up a bit compared to a C172.

 

[midcap]

I would really recommend a Cherokee Six. Mine was a 260. Easy to fly, HUGE cabin, reliable and rugged, cheap to insure. 135 knots. I loved mine. Sold in March of this year for $60k. 500 hrs on engine, 100 hrs on a 3 bladed new Hartzell, complete new leather interior, GPS, decent radios, new brakes, etc, etc. Only sold mine because the mission changed.
Biggest trip was adults Iowa to New Mexico for 6 days. Everyone was comfortable and no one had any complaints besides the turbulence on a particular leg of the journey. 76 gallons of useful fuel at 14 gallons per hour.
Good luck on your search.

I thought about the 6, but I don't need that much room right now. Plus the Comanche should cruise faster I think.

 

[midcap]

Plenty already put together

I know, but unless it was factory built the wife isn't going to let that fly.

 

[midcap]

That seems REALLY low. I believe an O-300 is at least that.

I copied and pasted it right from their website. They seemed confident about it's cost. I dont know.

 

[TexasAviation]

I just think it's funny that the OP suggests fixed gear and people start yelling, "COMANCHE!!!"

Surprised the Bonanza crowd hasn't shown up yet.

As for me, I have a very similar mission to yours and just put an offer down on a Cherokee 180. Pre-buy is happening Monday. Yeah, more power and retractable gear would be nice for a cross-country machine ... but I'd rather spend my limited budget on actually flying than on the extra maintenance and insurance for a plane like that. Cherokee 180s are a screaming deal for what you get per dollar.

I've been smitten by the Tiger, too. Sweet, sweet plane. If my Cherokee pre-buy doesn't go well, I might start looking at Tigers again.

 

[mapasha]

I thought about the 6, but I don't need that much room right now. Plus the Comanche should cruise faster I think.

The Comanche will definitely be faster but I thought you wanted fixed gear. My bad. It was on my list too but I ended up going with a twin.

 

[mapasha]

How does the Six handle the bumps? I'd imagine its size soaks up a bit compared to a C172.

There is an appreciable difference in how the Six handles bumps versus a C172 or Cherokee 180. If I hadn't wanted to go 180+ knots due to changes in my flying regime, I would have just stayed with the Six. It is not the best at any one thing but many things well and you can buy one for a very reasonable price.

 

[midcap]

I just think it's funny that the OP suggests fixed gear and people start yelling, "COMANCHE!!!"

Surprised the Bonanza crowd hasn't shown up yet.

As for me, I have a very similar mission to yours and just put an offer down on a Cherokee 180. Pre-buy is happening Monday. Yeah, more power and retractable gear would be nice for a cross-country machine ... but I'd rather spend my limited budget on actually flying than on the extra maintenance and insurance for a plane like that. Cherokee 180s are a screaming deal for what you get per dollar.

I've been smitten by the Tiger, too. Sweet, sweet plane. If my Cherokee pre-buy doesn't go well, I might start looking at Tigers again.

what type of cruise and range would you see with the plane you area looking to buy?

 

[midcap]

The Comanche will definitely be faster but I thought you wanted fixed gear. My bad. It was on my list too but I ended up going with a twin.

I always assumed a noob would need fixed gear for insurance purposes. A twin is awesome, but that's not even remotely on the wish list.

 

[midcap]

There is an appreciable difference in how the Six handles bumps versus a C172 or Cherokee 180. If I hadn't wanted to go 180+ knots due to changes in my flying regime, I would have just stayed with the Six. It is not the best at any one thing but many things well and you can buy one for a very reasonable price.

I did some calcs on travel time and it seems that I need to be at least going around 150kts. It's probably just somthing stupid stuck in my head though.

 

[TexasAviation]

what type of cruise and range would you see with the plane you area looking to buy?

The book shows 124 kts cruise and 510 nm range. In the real world, I'd expect more like 115 kts cruise and 440 nm range.

 

[Theboys]

I bought a commanche while a student and insurance wasn't stupid expensive. Few parts for gear were almost unobtanium though.

 

[midcap]

I bought a commanche while a student and insurance wasn't stupid expensive. Few parts for gear were almost unobtanium though.

You remember what the insurance rates were?

That's what I'm worried about some expensive 5000 dollar part breaking on the gear.

 

[farmerbrake]

I always assumed a noob would need fixed gear for insurance purposes. A twin is awesome, but that's not even remotely on the wish list.

What's your experience level? I had about 80 hours tt, 0 retract and was able to get covered for only about 200 more than what the guys had previously (granted the deductible went up a little). Only requirement was that I get a complex endorsement from a qualified instructor.

 

[midcap]

What's your experience level? I had about 80 hours tt, 0 retract and was able to get covered for only about 200 more than what the guys had previously (granted the deductible went up a little). Only requirement was that I get a complex endorsement from a qualified instructor.

Zero right now. That's not bad only a few hundred more.

I imagine a complex endorsement isn't too bad to get.

 

[SoCalPilot88]

eeeeh, I wouldn't say 140, but I only have time in 1 200hp arrow. I planned for 125 and it always got that. I'll give u 130 but I am not aware of an arrow or arrow II that does 140. turbo III's and IV's, oh yeah. real easy transition from a cherokee/warrior/archer into the arrow. I like em.

I fly a 200 hp Arrow with gap seals and a three blade prop and I consistently cruise at 130 knots at 75% power. The Arrow is a very easy transition from the fixed gear Warrior/Archer. I will say the extended gear has drag like a parachute (moreso than the fixed gear Cherokees, R182 or 172RG) so learn to override the autoextend gear feature when necessary.

 

[midcap]

I fly a 200 hp Arrow with gap seals and a three blade prop and I consistently cruise at 130 knots at 75% power. The Arrow is a very easy transition from the fixed gear Warrior/Archer. I will say the extended gear has drag like a parachute (moreso than the fixed gear Cherokees, R182 or 172RG) so learn to override the autoextend gear feature when necessary.

what's the difference between an Arrow and a Comanche?

 

[eman1200]

what's the difference between an Arrow and a Comanche?

for you, NOTHING, you haven't been in either one of them. GO FLY. appreciate the enthusiasm, but the time has come for you to take your discovery flight and log your very first x.x hobbs time. after which you'll be 10x's more hooked and have even more questions, but at least you'll have flown.

 

[Theboys]

Think my insurance was around 2000. Commanche is much more plane than arrow but they haven't made a commanche since 1972. Bigger engine, bigger plane. 30 kts faster maybe. I like the emergency gear extension better on the arrow,but that's about the only plus to me. I also owned a 172 as a student and little flying of the commanche made the 172 seem easy to fly.

 

[weilke]

540nm. If that is the main reason to have a plane, buy the plane that can do the trip. A Bonanza will do it in 3:20 in one hop.

 

[midcap]

540nm. If that is the main reason to have a plane, buy the plane that can do the trip. A Bonanza will do it in 3:20 in one hop.

all the Bo's I see are 100K plus though.

 

[weilke]

all the Bo's I see are 100K plus though.

You can find mid 60s models below 100 with enough money in the budget to overhaul the engine and add adsb-b.

Whatever you read on the internet about the V-tail: Just forget it.

 

[GBSoren]

I was recently down this same road, trying to decide what plane would be the best fit for my mission. I had to rule out all the single door planes right away, I am to claustrophobic and don't feel comfortable without a door on both sides (I know, stupid but it is what it is). I also really didn't want a high wing, just don't like the look, personal preference. One other thing, would prefer fixed gear, just simpler and lower insurance costs.

I ended up narrowing my search to the Socata TB10, but had a real hard time finding a nice one at what I felt was a fair price. Much easier to find are pretty good TB-20's, more $'s but you're also getting a lot more plane for the money. I "settled" on an older TB-20 with low engine hours, it's not fixed gear but 2 out of 3 ain't bad. The G1's are slightly faster than the G2's, flying it home after the purchase we got 160kt true at 11.5, at "normal" cruise alt for shorter flights I'd expect low-mid 150 range. G2's have a little more headroom in the cabin and that costs you about 5kts. I'm only about 5'9" so it hasn't been an issue, although I have gone to an in the ear headset over my Lightspeeds Tango's, which I did bump on the top now and then, but more because of always wearing a hat and glasses.

So far I love the plane, it's solid and a blast to fly!

Good luck in your search!

 

[midcap]

You can find mid 60s models below 100 with enough money in the budget to overhaul the engine and add adsb-b.

Whatever you read on the internet about the V-tail: Just forget it.

unless they were closer to 50k, it would still be out of budget