What will it sell for?

Tom-D

Tom-D

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Tom-D
1972 C-150-M no radios, no logs, and poor paint interior and glass?

Logs have not been reconstructed.
Engine runs fine but no method of proving TT. or TSMO tach shows 5k+ hours. looks OEM.
Airframe interior is in pretty good condition. Shows a gray dull color but no major corrosion. paint is OEM and faded.
Title is clean and the aircraft registration @ FAA.gov show the proper owner.
 
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I don't know, what are the wings and core engine worth? You can buy a 74 right now with logs and a basic panel working and flying the guy is asking $10k for it with 1500 SMOH ...

I'd say you have a parts plane there worth about $2500 rolling or, if you can find buyers for all the major components individually you could get up around $10k in parts.

What would it cost to build a set of logs and get it legal? That's gotta take some time and effort.
 
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Tom-D said:
1972 C-150-M no radios, no logs, and poor paint interior and glass?

Logs have not been reconstructed.
Engine runs fine but no method of proving TT. or TSMO
Airframe interior is in pretty good condition. Shows a gray dull color but no major corrosion. paint is OEM and faded.
Title is clean and the aircraft registration @ FAA.gov show the proper owner.
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Off the top of my head, $5,000. Maybe as low as $0.
A 150 with all logs, runout engine, etc etc, is about $15k.

But this has no radios, no logs, no documentation of anything. Then the engine has to be assumed to be runout and not in compliance with ADs.
So basically, the aircraft is unairworthy, the engine must be pulled and overhauled, and the airframe must be inspected and and every single AD verified for compliance.

Without pulling all the ADs, and determining the hours involved in compliance (some might require an awful lot of work to verify).

Also playing into it is what is in the panel? If they radios are out put the trays, wiring, and antennae are in place, that would help. But I would want everything checked to make sure a slid in radio functioned. If everything has to be re-done, that would exceed the value of the airframe.

Just my thoughts. I'm certainly not an A&P or dealer. But that would be my thought process as a buyer.
 
I wonder if someone took that plane and did a full refurb with a glass panel, make it a nice modern bird all fresh, what they could get for it. You think you could get $60k? What I've been seeing and hearing is that flight schools are buying new LSAs and its as much or more for the glass deck trainer demand as any SP demand. If you can get a solid airframe 150 or 152 for under $7500, and can sell them for $60-$75k, you can afford to do the refit and still come out with a few dollars and be cheaper than any other glass deck trainer.
 
Sounds like it needs a lot of work and of course the selling price would reflect that. I might consider it as a project if I was certified to do the work. But I'm not, and I assume paying someone to get it up to standards would cost a lot - likely more than just buying a ready to go plane. Maybe the owner would consider donating it to some operation that rebuilds such planes for charitable purposes? I seem to recall an operation looking for planes like this (in NJ?) to fix up to give an opportunity for younger people for low income backgrounds to learn to fly.
 
Henning said:
I wonder if someone took that plane and did a full refurb with a glass panel, make it a nice modern bird all fresh, what they could get for it. You think you could get $60k? What I've been seeing and hearing is that flight schools are buying new LSAs and its as much or more for the glass deck trainer demand as any SP demand. If you can get a solid airframe 150 or 152 for under $7500, and can sell them for $60-$75k, you can afford to do the refit and still come out with a few dollars and be cheaper than any other glass deck trainer.
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I'm thinking buy it and put a used com, transponder mode C in it and do an annual comply with the ADs start a set of new logs and fly it cheap.
 
PilotAlan said:
Off the top of my head, $5,000. Maybe as low as $0.
A 150 with all logs, runout engine, etc etc, is about $15k.

But this has no radios, no logs, no documentation of anything. Then the engine has to be assumed to be runout and not in compliance with ADs.
So basically, the aircraft is unairworthy, the engine must be pulled and overhauled, and the airframe must be inspected and and every single AD verified for compliance.

Without pulling all the ADs, and determining the hours involved in compliance (some might require an awful lot of work to verify).

Also playing into it is what is in the panel? If they radios are out put the trays, wiring, and antennae are in place, that would help. But I would want everything checked to make sure a slid in radio functioned. If everything has to be re-done, that would exceed the value of the airframe.

Just my thoughts. I'm certainly not an A&P or dealer. But that would be my thought process as a buyer.
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there is no requirement to overhaul the 0-200A If it makes compression, and produces the proper RPM at max throttle, and has good oil pressure it is airworthy.

that will take about 30 minutes.
 
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Tom-D said:
I'm thinking buy it and put a used com, transponder mode C in it and do an annual comply with the ADs start a set of new logs and fly it cheap.
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Henning said it, can't go wrong with a 150. Just remember, you won't be able to sell it for anything without a pretty serious restoration.
 
Get a fresh annual and a radio and transponder and I'll give you $3k for it :)
 
Tom-D said:
there is no requirement to overhaul the 0-200A If it makes compression, and produces the proper RPM at max throttle, and has good oil pressure it is airworthy.

that will take about 30 minutes.
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If there's no logs, how do you know you are compliant with AD94-05-05?
Can you state the engine has not been overhauled or a cylinder pulled in the last 15 years? And if it was, was 94-05-05 complied with?

Was AD96-12-06 complied with?

How about 98-17-11? Without logs, can you state that Nelson Balancing Service never worked on the crank? If not, you may have to replace the crank, and inspect the journals. That requires pulling the engine.

How about 93-10-02? Since TIS is unknown, the AD specifically requires the valve retainer keys must be inspected prior to further flight.

You also have to make sure that the aircraft is not on the list of AD95-21-15 which requires an engine teardown.

And that's just the engine by model number and 10 minutes on Google. Do you know for certain the engine does not have recalled cylinders or pistons from a third party producer, with mandatory grounding and replacement?

Was there a propstrike and the logs were "lost" to hide the prop replacement without a teardown?

I wouldn't get anywhere near this plane.
 
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Tom-D said:
there is no requirement to overhaul the 0-200A If it makes compression, and produces the proper RPM at max throttle, and has good oil pressure it is airworthy.

that will take about 30 minutes.
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Isn't there a requirement for the log to have a "Total Time" entry? How would you deal with that?
 
PilotAlan said:
If there's no logs, how do you know you are compliant with AD94-05-05?
Can you state the engine has not been overhauled or a cylinder pulled in the last 15 years? And if it was, was 94-05-05 complied with?

It does not require a engine overhaul to comply with 94-05-05,

Was AD96-12-06 complied with?

This on is a external inspection also, If it has any other manufacturers cylinder it does not apply.

How about 98-17-11? Without logs, can you state that Nelson Balancing Service never worked on the crank? If not, you may have to replace the crank, and inspect the journals. That requires pulling the engine.
You may have a point on that one, but the FAA has records of what S/N cranks were serviced by Nelson, and the serial number was stamped on the flange of he crank and can be read with out removal.

How about 93-10-02? Since TIS is unknown, the AD specifically requires the valve retainer keys must be inspected prior to further flight.

So you inspect them, no overhaul required.

You also have to make sure that the aircraft is not on the list of AD95-21-15 which requires an engine teardown.

And that's just the engine by model number and 10 minutes on Google. Do you know for certain the engine does not have recalled cylinders or pistons from a third party producer, with mandatory grounding and replacement?

So you read the serial numbers and manufacturers and query the AD list.

Was there a propstrike and the logs were "lost" to hide the prop replacement without a teardown?
Continental does not have a prop strike AD. (just Lycoming)

I wouldn't get anywhere near this plane.
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That's just you, re-constructing logs is not brain surgery, it can and will get done.
 
Henning said:
Isn't there a requirement for the log to have a "Total Time" entry? How would you deal with that?
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show me the rule?

The first entry should read

" this log started at XXXX tack time on __Date___, total time airframe and engine unknown. "

then the annual sign off, and all the ADs entered in the AD compliance record, and their status.

This would be the perfect aircraft to buy the AD Log service and start from Scratch to comply with all ADs, and a fresh annual, and new weight and balance.

Then this aircraft's records would be squeaky clean.
 
Lots of airplanes are missing logs here and there. Half the fleet is older than your grandparents. Paper only lasts so long.
 
Depends on the owner. Lot's of folks will just say 20gs and die with it, some folks will respect the price and sell it.

I wouldn't pay a penny over $10,000 for it and probably MUCH less
 
Haha -- I ran an AOPA VREF on the plane assuming 25,000 TTAF and 5,000 SMOH, with basic radios, and was told -$4,900

1972 - CESSNA 150 A-M
($4,900.00) (as configured)

Note: Numbers in parenthesis are negative values.
AFTT: 25000. Effect on valuation=($4,000.00) at $0.36/hour.
SMOH Engine #1: 5000. Effect on valuation=($9,900.00) at $11.00/hour.
Basic Equipment: Sgl digital navcom, 900 SMOH, NDH, 7 P&I.

(Needs int) ($3,000.00)
(Needs paint) ($4,000.00)

I know AOPA is a laughable source of armchair appraisals, but this made my day. :D
 
A great airplane for the homebuilder. Useable engine, instruments, wheels and brakes, and maybe radios. $5K, maybe $7K. Maybe.

Dan
 
schmookeeg said:
Haha -- I ran an AOPA VREF on the plane assuming 25,000 TTAF and 5,000 SMOH, with basic radios, and was told -$4,900

1972 - CESSNA 150 A-M
($4,900.00) (as configured)

Note: Numbers in parenthesis are negative values.
AFTT: 25000. Effect on valuation=($4,000.00) at $0.36/hour.
SMOH Engine #1: 5000. Effect on valuation=($9,900.00) at $11.00/hour.
Basic Equipment: Sgl digital navcom, 900 SMOH, NDH, 7 P&I.

(Needs int) ($3,000.00)
(Needs paint) ($4,000.00)

I know AOPA is a laughable source of armchair appraisals, but this made my day. :D
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"Give me five grand and I'll take it off your hands...nah, tell you what, just make it forty five hundred...":D
 
Tom-D said:
show me the rule?

The first entry should read

" this log started at XXXX tack time on __Date___, total time airframe and engine unknown. "

then the annual sign off, and all the ADs entered in the AD compliance record, and their status.

This would be the perfect aircraft to buy the AD Log service and start from Scratch to comply with all ADs, and a fresh annual, and new weight and balance.

Then this aircraft's records would be squeaky clean.
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Ok, and since there's no time limited components all you need to do is start with current tach time. Now if there were time limited components, would you have to comply with whatever those limits were as if they had been reached before returning to service?
 
Henning said:
Ok, and since there's no time limited components all you need to do is start with current tach time. Now if there were time limited components, would you have to comply with whatever those limits were as if they had been reached before returning to service?
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IF you loose the maintenance records of a time lifed item, the item drops dead.

I know of a Hiller helo that has no records and it is worthless, because every thing of importance on a helo is time lifed.
 
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Tom-D said:
If there's no logs, how do you know you are compliant with AD94-05-05?
Can you state the engine has not been overhauled or a cylinder pulled in the last 15 years? And if it was, was 94-05-05 complied with?

It does not require a engine overhaul to comply with 94-05-05,

Was AD96-12-06 complied with?

This on is a external inspection also, If it has any other manufacturers cylinder it does not apply.

How about 98-17-11? Without logs, can you state that Nelson Balancing Service never worked on the crank? If not, you may have to replace the crank, and inspect the journals. That requires pulling the engine.
You may have a point on that one, but the FAA has records of what S/N cranks were serviced by Nelson, and the serial number was stamped on the flange of he crank and can be read with out removal.

How about 93-10-02? Since TIS is unknown, the AD specifically requires the valve retainer keys must be inspected prior to further flight.

So you inspect them, no overhaul required.

You also have to make sure that the aircraft is not on the list of AD95-21-15 which requires an engine teardown.

And that's just the engine by model number and 10 minutes on Google. Do you know for certain the engine does not have recalled cylinders or pistons from a third party producer, with mandatory grounding and replacement?

So you read the serial numbers and manufacturers and query the AD list.

Was there a propstrike and the logs were "lost" to hide the prop replacement without a teardown?
Continental does not have a prop strike AD. (just Lycoming)
Click to expand...

Agreed. But my points were more aimed at the statement that a 30 minute inspection and good oil pressure and static RPM was all that was required to ensure airworthiness.

I was making the point that I am risking my license unless compliance is checked for every single AD (and some are difficult to check) on the engine, appliances, and airframe.
Just engine alone came up with a rather extensive list of ADs which would cost a good penny to get inspected at shop rates.
 
PilotAlan said:
Agreed. But my points were more aimed at the statement that a 30 minute inspection and good oil pressure and static RPM was all that was required to ensure airworthiness.

In actuality it would take me about 2 days to make that aircraft legal airworthy, with no short cuts.

I was making the point that I am risking my license unless compliance is checked for every single AD (and some are difficult to check) on the engine, appliances, and airframe.

Are you sure every AD is complied with properly on the aircraft that you fly now? or are you dependent upon your A&P-IA to insure you are?

Just engine alone came up with a rather extensive list of ADs which would cost a good penny to get inspected at shop rates.
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The 0-200-A has no ADs that are difficult to comply with. 1 day at any shop would do all the ADs on the list for the A/C and engine, but at some shops that would be 8 hours X $200.

I would wager that I could make this 150 (as described) legal airworthy with less than $1000 spent, that is annual and all servicing required.

3k for new VFR radios, 1k maintenance, plus base price, and you are flying.

I took a second look today, it has nearly new ECI titan steel cylinders, and a new red label carb. slick mags and Iridium plugs.
 
I would say $2,000. No haggling. Cash on the barrel head.
 
Henning said:
That would be a fair offer in the stated condition.
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The salvage would be much more than that,, wing set $2500, fuselage $2000, horizontal will be $1000, plus the engine core, instruments, brakes, wheels.
 
Tom-D said:
The salvage would be much more than that,, wing set $2500, fuselage $2000, horizontal will be $1000, plus the engine core, instruments, brakes, wheels.
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Yes, that's one of the reasons I would buy it at $2000, it makes it worth my while to drive out, takE it apart, load it on a trailer, bring it home, part it all out and sell it. Or I could try sinking $60k into it and doing a full refurb and glass deck and see if I can get $75k for it.

If I can't make money off of it, I don't want it.
 
Henning said:
Yes, that's one of the reasons I would buy it at $2000, it makes it worth my while to drive out, takE it apart, load it on a trailer, bring it home, part it all out and sell it. Or I could try sinking $60k into it and doing a full refurb and glass deck and see if I can get $75k for it.

If I can't make money off of it, I don't want it.
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If there is any money to be made guess who is going to make it?

Salvage yard has offered $7500.
 
Tom-D said:
He'll get some where between 10-15k for it.
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? Doubt it, at least not till it's back in Annual. That's what decent running flying ones with full logs and known times and mid time engines are selling for. Maybe with "0" SMOH he'll get above $10k. Prices are coming down on them, the training places are buying new LSAs with glass panels. Ragged out old 150s are not in high demand anymore from the "money making" sector so it's now a "pilot market" airplane, and pilots are cheap and that plane needs everything and is still left with a history that starts in 2011. Not an easy sale in the current market.

I do think that with a refurb and a G-500/430 or 650 in it it could sell to the money making crowd though at a profit.
 
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I suspect many aircraft, some in flyable condition, are going to wind up in scrapyards, since aircraft prices have plummeted, but parts and services remain breathtakingly expensive.
 
steingar said:
I suspect many aircraft, some in flyable condition, are going to wind up in scrapyards, since aircraft prices have plummeted, but parts and services remain breathtakingly expensive.
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This is true, it is becoming a problem with airport management, I see a greater amount of derelict aircraft just setting on the ramps now than in years past.

I was told by the lady that I pay my rent to, that they have a few hangars that are behind on there rent, and will soon have a lien attached to the aircraft.

But the thrifty 50's are holding their value, they sip fuel, and set out side rather well.
 
Tom-D said:
But the thrifty 50's are holding their value, they sip fuel, and set out side rather well.
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Might want to look at those market numbers again. Last year "priced to sell" was $18k, now it's $10k.
 
Tom-D said:
IF you loose the maintenance records of a time lifed item, the item drops dead.

I know of a Hiller helo that has no records and it is worthless, because every thing of importance on a helo is time lifed.
Click to expand...

Depends about 20 years ago southern ca. used to see crumpled and all bent up UH-12 trucked in on Monday and fly out on Friday with new paint job, rivets on the data tag also looked new.
I believe it used to be if I can take a Flap off another plane and put it on another why can't I just move the data tag and save all the work of moving all the parts over.
 
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