What to do next, and in what order?

Rykymus

Rykymus

Line Up and Wait
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Dec 24, 2014
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Rykymus
I just finished my instrument rating, and while developing my IFR skills, I want to start preparing for my next rating/license. I know I want to get complex and high performance ratings, as well as a multi-rating. I also want to get my commercial license.

Now, I don't have any plans to actually earn a living flying, nor do I intend to ever teach. (Although one never knows.) Mostly, I just want to have as much training as possible in order to be the best pilot I can be. I fly an Archer III right now, but intend on upgrading in about 5 years. I don't know what we'll buy then, but if finances permit, it will likely be a twin. Regardless, I just want to do it. (I may even get my seaplane and tail wheel ratings in the future.)

So, what is the best route for completing complex and HP, commercial, and multi? Should I just do them all in a multi? (The FBO I train at has a Seneca II, and there is another school 30 minutes away by plane that flies newer Seminoles.) Cost is not really an issue (although my wife might not agree) nor is time. (I am self-employed and set my own hours.)

I just really want to get all this done and enjoy flying, really knowing what I'm doing. (However, I don't want to rush through it, as I like to get a lot of practice in while I'm training.) And I know the additional training will put my wife more at ease in the air. (Not to mention lower my insurance costs.)
 
I could have written a very similar note, so looking forward to suggestions. I'm a PPL with 85 hours TT. I would like instrument (in the next 1-2 years), Multi (will likely buy one in 4-5 years) and possibly seaplane.

I think getting the IR before I need a BFR is a nice way to set a timeline for myself to keep me working on it. Not sure when/where to fit in multi. Seaplane is more just for fun anyway, as i don't have access to one.
 
Write down the commercial requirements, keep them as a note on your phone. You likely have plenty of hours to get in before 250, so no need to push - just be aware of what you need to have for X-country, etc. Try to get those knocked out. Take a long trip somewhere, through a bunch of complex airspace. Build high-quality hours.

Your complex signoff will happen in the prep for the commercial ride, unless you want to fly around in a complex bird sooner. Do it if you can afford it. You can get a HP endorsement one day when the opportunity presents itself.

Don't do this.

On the way, if you want to do a tailwheel or seaplane, that's cool. Except if you get a commercial ticket, then you can do a commercial seaplane ride after that and skip the private seaplane ticket. Ditto for multi. If you get the initial commercial in a single-engine, then the multi commercial/instrument add-on is cheaper and easy.

Expect that you'll probably go for a CFI ticket next, and treat your flying now as if you were going to be teaching soon. You'll learn differently.
 
I already have my hours. (450 PIC, about 150 cross-country) The likelihood of me teaching is almost nil. I just don't have the patience for it.
 
Eventually I was thinking I might wish to instruct.
No desire to be airline or commercial paid. I am over 50 after all.

Just taking time to READ all information here is extremely helpful.
 
@Rykymus oh, awesome. Then go score an instructor with a cheap Arrow and do your commercial checkride prep in that. Once you've got your commercial, you could go Apache or Seneca pretty easily for cheap twin-time (5-10 hrs) and get your multi-commercial-instrument. If you've already got the hours, you could do the ratings in a few weeks. Doing it all in a twin doubles the budget, and you can't log PIC time in the twin until you have the ticket.
 
Very cool that you plan to continue training after the Instrument.

First question @Rykymus - why the multi? (It being a challenge is a fine answer, but...)
If you don't stay proficient in multis, they'll reach up and bite you square in the butt when you aren't looking.

I would hold off on training in one if you're going to buy one... train in what you buy, unless you have access to multiple of them and plan on doing various flights to see what you want to buy. You should fly multi regularly if you're going to do that.

That said, you're going to need PIC time in them to own one and have "reasonable" insurance. So there's a path that helps with that... if you decide to go multi...

Do the Private Multi add-on first. Can continue to the Commercial Multi after that if you like, and then all of the Commercial training can be PIC. (You have to have 10 hours of PIC or "acting as PIC with instructor on board" to do the Commerical Multi ride anyway, but you can count ALL of it without needing to figure out with the instructor which flights are you PIC, and which ones they're PIC on, if you have the Private first, because you have category and class on your certificate at that point.)

The multi is going to cover complex, but probably not high performance, depending on what you fly. Doesn't really matter. If and when you choose to go fly something high-performance, you'll probably need a checkout in it anyway, and an instructor can go over the stuff needed and add that endorsement, then. Meanwhile, you'll have to have the complex endorsement for nearly every multi out there.

Seaplane and tailwheel, all good... no reason not to, but it won't have any impact at all on your multi insurance. The main impact there will be PIC time in multi's and PIC time in type.

Biggest question you have to ask first is "Why the multi?" There's good and bad reasons, and some of them are subjective and personal, so they don't have "wrong" answers... once you know you want the multi, you need to dedicate yourself to staying proficient in them, unless the rating is just to have on the card, and in that case, you can "hang it up" for a while with the multis after the rating is earned, and plan for some focused hard renewal to the emergency procedures when you have access to/start flying your own multi again.
 
P.S. Keep in mind that most folks when planning "fast paths" through ratings don't have plans to maybe buy a multi... PIC time in the multi will be a "big deal" to you @Rykymus and not so much to someone chasing ratings.
 
denverpilot said:
First question @Rykymus - why the multi? (It being a challenge is a fine answer, but...)
If you don't stay proficient in multis, they'll reach up and bite you square in the butt when you aren't looking.
Click to expand...

I personally don't believe that. Anyone who is actually proficient enough to fly an airplane really ought to be proficient enough to run a twin. That said, we all know people who really aren't proficient pilots and it doesn't matter how many engines the airplane has.

denverpilot said:
I would hold off on training in one if you're going to buy one... train in what you buy, unless you have access to multiple of them and plan on doing various flights to see what you want to buy. You should fly multi regularly if you're going to do that.
Click to expand...

This, I agree with. Personally, I'd just buy the twin you're planning to fly, and get your commercial multi rating in it.

denverpilot said:
That said, you're going to need PIC time in them to own one and have "reasonable" insurance. So there's a path that helps with that... if you decide to go multi....
Click to expand...

I don't think it helps much with insurance to do your initial commercial rating in a multi, since you won't have much multi time to begin with either way, and it is likely in a different type of airplane than what the OP will own.
 
mondtster said:
I personally don't believe that. Anyone who is actually proficient enough to fly an airplane really ought to be proficient enough to run a twin. That said, we all know people who really aren't proficient pilots and it doesn't matter how many engines the airplane has.
Click to expand...

Hmm. Depends. Both problems, really.

mondtster said:
I don't think it helps much with insurance to do your initial commercial rating in a multi, since you won't have much multi time to begin with either way, and it is likely in a different type of airplane than what the OP will own.
Click to expand...

I never said it helped with insurance to do the rating in the multi, I said it helped with total multi PIC time. A big difference between those statements.
 
Great info here. Thanks.

Number one reason for the additional training is just the challenge. Everything you learn makes you a better aviator, and enjoy the challenge of learning something new.

The other reason is that when the time comes to start seriously considering what to buy next, I want to have time in all types that I might be considering. I want to fly all over the country, and I want my wife to come with me. So far, there don't seem to be a lot of single engine aircraft that should would likely feel comfortable doing a lot of flying in. (Her limit in the Archer seems to be about an hour.)

There are several reasons I'm considering a twin. First, I've always been attracted to them. And to be honest, the idea of flying at night, over mountainous terrain, or large bodies of water in a single engine plane seems unnecessarily risky to me. (And to my wife, more importantly.) A larger, heavier, more comfortable plane will likely make her more willing to fly greater distances. I realize that, besides being more expensive to own/operate, it will require more effort to maintain proficiency, but I'm okay with that. Even after two years and 450 hours, I still go up once per month, usually with a CFI, specifically to practice all my maneuvers. I enjoy the practice, as well as the feeling of confidence that it provides not only myself, but my wife.

Mostly, I just want to make an informed decision when its time to upgrade. One based on my own experiences as well as the advice of others.
 
Rykymus said:
(And to my wife, more importantly.)

I still go up once per month, usually with a CFI, specifically to practice all my maneuvers. I enjoy the practice, as well as the feeling of confidence that it provides not only myself, but my wife.
Click to expand...

You mentioned your wife here a few times. Ever think of getting her to do a pitchhitter course with your instructor?
 
Yup. She is not interested. I can't even get her to touch the yoke. Hell, she wants a Cirrus with a chute. (No offense to any Cirrus owners. I'm sure they are fine planes.)
 
Rykymus said:
The other reason is that when the time comes to start seriously considering what to buy next, I want to have time in all types that I might be considering. I want to fly all over the country, and I want my wife to come with me. So far, there don't seem to be a lot of single engine aircraft that should would likely feel comfortable doing a lot of flying in. (Her limit in the Archer seems to be about an hour.)

There are several reasons I'm considering a twin. First, I've always been attracted to them. And to be honest, the idea of flying at night, over mountainous terrain, or large bodies of water in a single engine plane seems unnecessarily risky to me. (And to my wife, more importantly.) A larger, heavier, more comfortable plane will likely make her more willing to fly greater distances. I realize that, besides being more expensive to own/operate, it will require more effort to maintain proficiency, but I'm okay with that. Even after two years and 450 hours, I still go up once per month, usually with a CFI, specifically to practice all my maneuvers. I enjoy the practice, as well as the feeling of confidence that it provides not only myself, but my wife.

Mostly, I just want to make an informed decision when its time to upgrade. One based on my own experiences as well as the advice of others.
Click to expand...

Heh. If she can only handle an hour, you're going to need something supersonic to travel the country in. ;)

Rykymus said:
Yup. She is not interested. I can't even get her to touch the yoke. Hell, she wants a Cirrus with a chute. (No offense to any Cirrus owners. I'm sure they are fine planes.)
Click to expand...

Really isn't an awful option. You could always become a Beech Bonanza "elitist" too. :)

Well whatever you decide, good on ya for looking for the next challenge after the Instrument.

Honestly you could stay at the Private level in the multi (and even make yourself fly to Commercial standards) for your mission.

A taildragger will challenger everything you think you know about rudder use. A glider will challenge everything you think you know about single or zero engine risk. :)
 
P.S. I think what she's telling you is she wants the airplane to be shiny and have leather seats @Rykymus. This is possible in a number of types of airplanes. Hehehehe.
 
P.P.S. Cirrus Jet has a parachute if it's the parachute thing for her. Just sayin'... hehehe.
 
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