what to do about shoddy maintenance

[GCA319]

Just don't be the first guy to rent it after maintenance and you should be fine.

This isn't a rental operation we're talking about here. In the world of professional flying, you don't get to choose how many cycles after an mx inspection was complete you let pass before you're willing to fly it. If an aircraft is legal on the books and passes the PIC's airworthiness check, he is expected to fly it regardless of when it came out of the shop.

 

[Unregistered]

If you're still working for this guy that means you're in negative numbers.

No, it means we handled it like professional adults and came to a satisfactory resolution after we gathered ALL the facts.

Except for the one guy that willingly overflew the 100 hour. It wasn't me, all the ships I flew were within regulation with the exception of the inaccurate times in the logbooks. In other words, I flew a ship up until the 100 hours was due per the computer program and someone else overflew it 10 hours and when I next flew it, it had undergone a 100 hour inspection. So even if you did backup the entire history to correct the incorrect times, I flew it within reg.

 

[Unregistered]

You may not like the advice you got, but it was correct nonetheless. Once you became aware of the maintenance / inspection discrepancies, you also acted in violation by continuing to fly the aircraft. No amount of swearing, whining, pouting, self-pity, or stamping your feet will change that.

Welcome to the adult world.

All is not lost, however. Three days is not a long time. It's short enough, in fact, that you probably can avoid any repercussions if you stop flying today.

I mean, seriously, no one expects you to review the mx logs from day one every time you fly, so it's reasonable that you wouldn't notice the inspection discrepancy at first glance. What you did notice at first glance was that the aircraft was within the 100-hour window since the last inspection. And for better or worse, the DIY maintenance by the owner became legal once the A&P signed off on it.

So your choices are basically to keep your mouth shut and keep flying in knowing violation; to confront the boss and refuse to fly; to file a report with the FAA and refuse to fly; or to quit.

Rich

nope, another choice is to gather all the facts and come to a satisfactory resolution like professional adults. there has been a lot of judgmental speculation on this thread.

 

[Johann]

- yes, we don't shut down to go to the bathroom, just have a ground crew hold the controls

Can they log PIC?

 

[Unregistered]

Follow up to this thread -

Guess the guy that got sent packing called the FAA. Shortly after making this thread the FAA showed up.

As stated in the thread, the electronic status board was used by owner, maintenance and pilots to quickly determine status of aircraft. When the electronic status board failed is when the discrepancies were found in the logbooks. AT that point in time all of the aircraft were legal except for the one pilot who unwittingly took the owner's word for it and overflew the 100 while generating revenue.

After the FAA investigated the one pilot was suspended 30 days, the A&P/IA was reeducated on when 100 hours were due and the owner was fined heavily for doing maintenance requiring supervision without supervision and generating revenue after 100 hour was due.

At the time the original post was made, all the facts were gathered and all the pilots were made aware of what was going on. We all had a pilot meeting and confronted the owner and all of us refused to fly two aircraft who's logs were questionable. The FAA came the day after that.

So, contrary to some advice given here -
-10% over is a big deal to the FAA
-We all continued to have a job and earn money and flight hours without having to walk
-there is a difference between unsafe aircraft and unsupervised maintenance. the FAA backed the pilots right to determine airworthiness of the aircraft and as previously stated no one, except the one, got violated.
-the FAA was actually quite reasonable when it came to pilot expectations, they know a lot of us are in our first job and trusting the owner, they educated us that they don't expect people to walk out of their first job, they also educated the owner to learn the rules and to quit pressuring employees

 

[SkyDog58]

Sounds like things worked out pretty much as they should have.

 

[Graueradler]

Except that the pilot who dropped the dime on the operation lost his job.

 

[Brad Z]

Except that the pilot who dropped the dime on the operation lost his job.

Was the pilot who dropped the dime the same pilot who got the 30 day suspension? It wasn't clear.

As far as the pilot who got the 30 days for flying an unairworthy airplane, it sounds like the pilot knew the plane wasn't airworthy (regardless of what the boss said) and flew it anyway. Even the new FAA compliance philosophy won't get you out of a suspension if you knowingly and willfully break the rules...even if the reason was to keep your job. That said, 30 days is relatively short, so you live and learn, I guess...

This tale should be required reading for new professional pilots before they sign on to their first paying gig. There are a lot of bad apples out there and you can't afford to take even a single bite out of them.

 

[Unregistered]

Sorry it wasn't clear -

what happened was the the pilot that got sent down the road is the one who found the 100 hour discrepancies in the log books, he called the owner into the room where all the records were located, they got into a heated argument about it with the owner citing "ive been doing this 20 years... blah blah blah" the pilot then questioned why recent maintenance done by the owner was not in the log book, the heat got hotter, the pilot refused the fly the aircraft until it was brought into compliance (like suggested be done here by the arm chair experts and while not wrong per say, its not the only way to solve a problem)

the owner then asked another pilot - pilot #2 - (a few were standing by and watching the argument) and pilot 2 said yes. pilot 2 is who got violated, pilot 2 probably actually wouldn't have gotten violated by the FAA (ASI's words) except that when questioned by the FAA he willfully lied to them about doing it. all the rest of us came clean to the FAA and admitted to flying the aircraft with dirty records.

the FAA educated us on doing that but also understood it wasn't as cut and dried as the armchair experts here make it to be; which is why they did not violate any of us, I am sure the honesty helped too.

bottom line, yes its tough to run a business - I've owned my own also, but we're not talking about selling clothes or candy we're talking about putting your mothers daughters and sons into aircraft over very rugged terrain.

in the end i'm glad i came here and explored ALL of my options going forward with this, though I still feel making ludicrous demands (again there is a difference between out of compliance and unsafe and the FAA allows a PIC to determine airworthiness) and threatening to walk out is not only unprofessional but childish as all get out.

 

[Everskyward]

the owner then asked another pilot - pilot #2 - (a few were standing by and watching the argument) and pilot 2 said yes. pilot 2 is who got violated, pilot 2 probably actually wouldn't have gotten violated by the FAA (ASI's words) except that when questioned by the FAA he willfully lied to them about doing it. all the rest of us came clean to the FAA and admitted to flying the aircraft with dirty records.

the FAA educated us on doing that but also understood it wasn't as cut and dried as the armchair experts here make it to be; which is why they did not violate any of us, I am sure the honesty helped too.

I thought that there had to be more to the story about #2.

 

[Brad Z]

what happened was the the pilot that got sent down the road is the one who found the 100 hour discrepancies in the log books, he called the owner into the room where all the records were located, they got into a heated argument about it with the owner citing "ive been doing this 20 years... blah blah blah" the pilot then questioned why recent maintenance done by the owner was not in the log book, the heat got hotter, the pilot refused the fly the aircraft until it was brought into compliance (like suggested be done here by the arm chair experts and while not wrong per say, its not the only way to solve a problem)

the owner then asked another pilot - pilot #2 - (a few were standing by and watching the argument) and pilot 2 said yes. pilot 2 is who got violated, pilot 2 probably actually wouldn't have gotten violated by the FAA (ASI's words) except that when questioned by the FAA he willfully lied to them about doing it. all the rest of us came clean to the FAA and admitted to flying the aircraft with dirty records.

the FAA educated us on doing that but also understood it wasn't as cut and dried as the armchair experts here make it to be; which is why they did not violate any of us, I am sure the honesty helped too.

bottom line, yes its tough to run a business - I've owned my own also, but we're not talking about selling clothes or candy we're talking about putting your mothers daughters and sons into aircraft over very rugged terrain.

OK, that makes more sense. And yeah, getting caught lying is a guaranteed certificate action.

in the end i'm glad i came here and explored ALL of my options going forward with this, though I still feel making ludicrous demands (again there is a difference between out of compliance and unsafe and the FAA allows a PIC to determine airworthiness) and threatening to walk out is not only unprofessional but childish as all get out.

Understand that like using the toilet, you're not done until the paperwork is completed...especially so for a commercial operation.

We all know that paperwork doesn't keep an airplane safe, but the same discipline regarding cutting corners on paperwork is often directly related to similar attitudes about cutting corners on airworthiness.

And when your certificate is on the line, sometimes walking away from legitimate safety concerns is the only choice. It doesn't pay the bills but it's better for your career long-term.

 

[Jimmy cooper]

Truth well spoken..!!!

And many employees don't realize they are working for a loser, someone who is a threat to their customer and have no business being in business and are doomed to fail. If your flying something that does not conform, simply leave.