What plane should I buy?

[Sinistar]

And shields the true cost from the wife when she overhears you talking to the mechanic or avionics shop.

 

[golfmogul]

lol I'm single - divorced for several years now so no worries there

 

[N747JB]

You may save on buying a simple training type airplane for your initial flight training but it is a gamble at best. You can easily outspend the entire cost of training on one unexpected engine issue.

I love some of the recommendation for a first plane as a student pilot. Insurance quote will be good for a laugh or maybe a cry

My son learned to fly from 0 hours through his private in my 182, I think the highest premium I paid was $1300.00 when he was 16 and soloed. But, I’m sure a retractable might have been a different story.

 

[N747JB]

lol I'm single - divorced for several years now so no worries there

And you can afford an airplane??

 

[Crashnburn]

Oh man, get your medical ASAP, esp. since you are color blind. But, before you visit a doctor's office, ping Dr. Bruce on medical topics about how to go about it; and A#1 priority, do a consult (not physical) before you get any further. If you fail a medical, even Light Sport is out of the question; but the consult will tell you if you'll pass, or not. If you would fail, but don't take the medical (that's what the consult will tell you) then you'll still be eligible for LSA. Lot's more restriction than Private Pilot, but you can still aviate.

As far as the plane to buy, and when. At least solo in a rental, so you won't be thrashing the landing gear of YOUR plane. Ideally, you wait until you know what you need for 90% of your flights, and buy that. Then rent for the other 10%.

 

[Pilawt]

I disagree that a Cherokee 235 is a good fit. Piper extended the length of the PA-28 planes and the addition was all (or almost all) in the rear seat legroom. Short body planes are designated PA-28-180 or -235. Long bodies are PA-28 181 (the Archer), and PA-28-236. I have forgotten the model name for the -236, sorry.

@Hang 4 is correct. Piper denotes the tapered-wing models by adding ‘1’ to the horsepower suffix. There were several years in which there were long cabins with the old “Hershey-bar” wings.

1963-1972 PA-28-180: “Cherokee 180” with short cabin, “Hershey-bar” wings.

1973 PA-28-180: “Cherokee Challenger” with long cabin, “Hershey-bar” wings.

1974-75 PA-28-180: “Cherokee Archer”, name change only, still with long cabin and “Hershey-bar” wings.

1976-77 PA-28-181: “Cherokee Archer II”, long cabin, tapered wings.

1978-94 PA-28-181: “Archer II”, name change only.

========


1964-1972 PA-28-235: “Cherokee 235” with short cabin, “Hershey-bar” wings.

1973 PA-28-235: “Cherokee Charger” with long cabin, “Hershey-bar” wings.

1974-77 PA-28-235: “Cherokee Pathfinder”, name change only, still with long cabin and “Hershey-bar” wings.

(No 235 hp model for 1978)

1979-94 PA-28-236: “Dakota”, long cabin, tapered wings.

 

[Jeff767]

RV10 would be perfect for you and with the lower cost of maintaining the aircraft you should be able to afford it on your budget. No need to share.

 

[Skyrys62]

Here is an RV-10 for sale, reasonably close to your budget. With negotiation, quite possible.
https://www.trade-a-plane.com/searc...odel=RV-10&listing_id=2365541&s-type=aircraft

It lists useful load at 1172.
Let's calculate your two younger boys as grown to your size.

Full fuel is 60gal = 360
Four grown adults @ 185 = 740
Baggage weight available = 72

That would be light baggage for four, but, you can leave some fuel out and fly shorter legs.
Not knowing the fuel burn, it's hard to say how much.
Using 13gph, that's 3 hr leg, and add 1 hr reserve for 49gal = 294...which picks up 66 more baggage totaling 138lbs now. Divide that by 4 and it's 34.5lbs each. Not bad IMO.

Of course you'll want to carry some oil, flight bag, etc., but you also have a few years before they reach the 185 weight...so there's that too.

Likely easy to sell if you don't wish to keep it.

 

[golfmogul]

Oh man, get your medical ASAP, esp. since you are color blind. But, before you visit a doctor's office, ping Dr. Bruce on medical topics about how to go about it; and A#1 priority, do a consult (not physical) before you get any further. If you fail a medical, even Light Sport is out of the question; but the consult will tell you if you'll pass, or not. If you would fail, but don't take the medical (that's what the consult will tell you) then you'll still be eligible for LSA. Lot's more restriction than Private Pilot, but you can still aviate.

I've been doing the online (Kings) ground school video lessons & quizes and researching planes etc. Ready to schedule my medical exam. You said I should "ping Dr. Bruce" then do a consult before doing my medical exam. I'd love to ... who is Dr. Bruce and how do I ping him/her & where do I get a consult (or will any AME do a consult for me if I ask for it?) Thx!

 

[MU2 Tom]

I took my first ever flight in a light aircraft last week & was instantly hooked. I've been wanting to fly for my entire life & the timing is finally right. I bought an online ground course from KingSchools upon the recommendation of the flight instructor that took me on last week's demo flight, & have been learning the ground school stuff needed to pass the test. I like the instructor & plan to use him to train & move forward with getting the dozens of hours needed to eventually pass the flight test. I'd like to use him as my instructor. If I use him and the plane he teaches with, I'll learn on a PA28-181 (Piper Archer Cherokee II). It seemed fine, but a friend who has recently gone through all of this (and some things I've read online) suggest that if you plan to buy a plane anyway, the training is less expensive if you do it in your own plane, and then you're learning on the plane you own & will be using after getting your license so you'll be accustomed to flying it etc. Makes sense. If the above are true, I am interested in buying (ideally fractional ownership) something that can do the following (assuming it is within the realm of planes I could use to learn to fly & also would be a plane I can operate with my license once I get it).

I've been researching planes I could buy with the following in mind:

1. I live near Salt Lake City UT. Elevation a little over 4,000 feet msl.

2. I have kids who are with me about 30% of the time. When they're with me, we often take last min trips. Would be fun to take them on short trips with me in a plane once a month or so (to southern utah, to phoenix, to So. Cal, to Dallas ... we have family in each place) - and I'd like to fly myself to vegas occasionally. Would be nice to have a plane that can go direct from the south valley regional airport to each of these destinations without stopping in between for fuel but if Dallas (or Dallas and Phoenix) require a stop first in southern utah or somewhere in between, I can manage that.

3. My 2 kids that will be with me 30% of the time are 10 and 12 but very tall ... one is already 150lbs and growing fast, the other is about 110lbs and growing fast. My other son who will only occasionally fly with us (b/c he's living away at college) weighs 185 (same as me).

4. I want to be able to take 3 kids, myself, and some luggage (we usually each travel with 1 carry on and 1 backpack).

5. I haven't gotten to this part in my training, but from watching youtube videos I've learned that during the summer months when its hot, and at high altitude airports (south valley regional is 4604 msl, is that high in this context?), that it makes it harder to gain altitude in weaker (single engine) planes - right?

Like anyone, I'd prefer a low maintenance plane that is on the less expensive end of things to maintain/service, but that also has a modern/comfortable enough interior and exterior as to look nice and fly well. Ideally a glass cockpit with more modern avionics, but I'm open to analog if that's too expensive. Not sure yet of my budget, but my ideal situation would be to have a less than $2,500/mo payment and own at least 1/4 of a nice, newer plane that is decently fast, has great range for my routes I will be regularly flying, and can manage the load of 4 (essentially) adults w/some luggage & full fuel tank even during hot summer days taking off at 4,600 feet.

My research this far has taken me to the 6 seaters in general b/c so much that I read online suggests that 4 seaters aren't really built to handle 4 adults + luggage (dumb). So far, I am liking what I learn about the Archer Cherokee 6 seater, but I don't know enough about it to know if it fulfills the mission outline I've laid out above. If you have suggestions I'll really appreciate your input.

Thanks!

I’ve been through this. When family is in the plane it adds a level of needed safety. First look shoukd be a Cessna P210. Turbo helps when high and hot. Pressurized helps get over weather. Then you will yearn for the safety of a second engine. A C310 or C340 would be next. Those will allow u to haul family and gear. I took the route of C182, C P210, C340 then MU2. Good luck

 

[golfmogul]

UPDATE: Still just early in my research, but I'm loving what I'm learning about the Cirrus SR22T. I love the shape/design of that plane, and it seems to be a great plane for my needs. The more I think about my travel, it is/has been/will be about 70% just me solo, about 5% with 1 other adult, about 20% with my 2 kids & me, and only about 5% with 4 ppl (usually my 3 kids and me). Each of those will include some luggage per person too. Seems I might need the turbo to give me the power to fly in high altitude on summer days with that type of load (from what I've read so far, it seems that with 4 adults at 185lbs each + fuel + bags, the SR22t could work). As much as I love the new ones, it seems smart to finish my training in the Piper cherokee II and then buy an older Cirrus SR22T & use it for 1-2 years while I accrue experience and get my instrument rating. Then I could see upgrading to a twin with pressurized cabin. I've learned about flying clubs setup as 501c3 social orgs to organize a fractional ownership which would be good to do if I could find just 1-2 pilots in the SLC area with similar needs and tastes to go in on it with me. I'm so excited about all of this (learning to fly, etc) that I cancelled my 5 week Asia trip 2 days ago so that I can go home this weekend and put full time hours into studying/training.

 

[genna]

UPDATE: Still just early in my research, but I'm loving what I'm learning about the Cirrus SR22T. I love the shape/design of that plane, and it seems to be a great plane for my needs. The more I think about my travel, it is/has been/will be about 70% just me solo, about 5% with 1 other adult, about 20% with my 2 kids & me, and only about 5% with 4 ppl (usually my 3 kids and me). Each of those will include some luggage per person too. Seems I might need the turbo to give me the power to fly in high altitude on summer days with that type of load (from what I've read so far, it seems that with 4 adults at 185lbs each + fuel + bags, the SR22t could work). As much as I love the new ones, it seems smart to finish my training in the Piper cherokee II and then buy an older Cirrus SR22T & use it for 1-2 years while I accrue experience and get my instrument rating. Then I could see upgrading to a twin with pressurized cabin. I've learned about flying clubs setup as 501c3 social orgs to organize a fractional ownership which would be good to do if I could find just 1-2 pilots in the SLC area with similar needs and tastes to go in on it with me. I'm so excited about all of this (learning to fly, etc) that I cancelled my 5 week Asia trip 2 days ago so that I can go home this weekend and put full time hours into studying/training.

I think you’d need a G5 or newer. Older ones won’t have enough useful load for 4x185 + bags and fuel for more than a short hop. Not cheap, but a nice plane

 

[golfmogul]

I think you’d need a G5 or newer. Older ones won’t have enough useful load for 4x185 + bags and fuel for more than a short hop. Not cheap, but a nice plane

Dang! - the more I learn, I think you're right. I want a sporty, fast, semi luxury 4 seater that can really take 4 adults + luggage on a cross country trip. Can't find one. Seems everything points to buying a 6 seater instead. ugg

 

[ktup-flyer]

Dang! - the more I learn, I think you're right. I want a sporty, fast, semi luxury 4 seater that can really take 4 adults + luggage on a cross country trip. Can't find one. Seems everything points to buying a 6 seater instead. ugg

Velocity XL RG

 

[N1120A]

Dang! - the more I learn, I think you're right. I want a sporty, fast, semi luxury 4 seater that can really take 4 adults + luggage on a cross country trip. Can't find one. Seems everything points to buying a 6 seater instead. ugg

Yeah, that's pretty much always the case.

 

[genna]

Dang! - the more I learn, I think you're right. I want a sporty, fast, semi luxury 4 seater that can really take 4 adults + luggage on a cross country trip. Can't find one. Seems everything points to buying a 6 seater instead. ugg

There is a great classic Soviet comedy from the 60s. In it, a university student from Russia goes to Caucasus to collect folk stories for a project. When he arrives at a hotel, the clerk, upon hearing that such stories include toasts, immediately closes the front desk, takes him to a room and pours both of them tall glasses of wine for the toasts he about to tell him.

The student protests saying that he doesn't drink. The clerk says that this is not drinking(while pulling out a massive bottle of wine), you just can't do toasts without wine("it's like a wedding night without the bride"). The student says that he really cannot drink, his body doesn't agree with alcohol. This prompts the first toast given with a think Caucasian accent. Starts at 0:52

"Мой прадед говорит: имею желание купить дом, но не имею возможности.
Имею возможность купить козу, но не имею желания.
Так выпьем за то, чтобы наши желания совпадали с нашими возможностями."


Translated:
My great-grandfather says: I have a desire to buy a house, but I have no opportunity.
I have the opportunity to buy a goat, but I have no desire.
So let’s drink so that our desires coincide with our capabilities.

Pretty much describes General Aviation in a nutshell .. .8 hours later of course

 

[Eric Brunelle]

That sounds like great advice and makes a lot of sense to me. Again, I’m at the very beginning of this exciting journey, but I think I will follow your suggestion for at least a few months. I plan to pretty much spend full-time hours until I get my private license, and then do the same until I get my instrument rating. Hopefully there are workarounds these days for those of us who are colorblind because I would hate To get deeper into this with my investment of time and money and then discovered that my color blindness will keep me from acquiring the licenses and ratings that will allow me to buy a plane and use it the way I plan to

For "Color Deficiency" - there are very few instances of truly "Color Blindness" - , you can get a "certificate of demonstrated ability". Two ways, as I recall - got mine about 25 years ago. 1) Go to the FSDO and take a test with some kind of large black box that shows colors (I failed that one, too) or 2) Do the light gun signals at a towered airport. I passed that one - barely.

I failed the Ishihara test badly - missed 12 out of 14. Never knew I was color deficient until I went for mt PPC medical 30 or so years ago. Some days my color deficiency is worse/better than other days.

 

[MBDiagMan]

I’ve seen several people that I know buy a good sized plane and use it for a trainer. Out of three of them,one of them was successful in a Cherokee Six, but it was a long, rocky road. TW other people I know tried it in a 210 and a Cherokee Six respectively. Neither one of them achieved their goal. One gave it up altogether and the other gave up and hires a pilot to take him when he wants to go.

if you’re serious about learning to fly, rent or buy a trainer, get your private and maybe even instrument, then buy your traveler and hire a CFI for a few hours transition training. This will be better in the long run and let you thoroughly evaluate your situation before locking into a particular plane. Gives you time to find a hangar and such.

My $0.02,

 

[Johnbo]

I came to the conclusion that 1 plane will not do it all. I have my beautiful but very boring IO-550 M35 Bonanza to go fast. The J-3 gets flown the most because it is cheap to fly and you don't need anywhere to go. The Cessna 175 is the best all around plane I have. The Skybolt is awesome and goes upside down and the Stearman is just cool.

Pigpenracing got it right but there are many more issues to consider. I wouldn’t go straight from PP training into hauling a grossed out 6-place...would you jump in there as a passenger if your pilot was a 40-hour pilot?

my advice is to buy a classic taildragger that you can always resell easily when needed and learn to fly. Proper stick and rudder skills learned initially in something like a citabria, cub, champ etc will give you a strong foundation for airmanship that you can build on no matter what your mission is in the future.

Then when you are ready buy a sport plane for 85% of your local flying and a spam can to haul and impress your friends with. Partnering on the one you will use the least is a great way to afford multiple aircraft ownership.