What Kills Pilots: The Most Common (with examples)

[Ted]

As requested from Bruce and Wayne (hmm... I just made the connection about what happens when you put them together), here are the list of what kills people with deadly examples.

The purpose of this thread is to make a list of what frequently kills pilots for the benefit of students and long-time pilots alike. This would be a good sticky for training.

(1) Pilot needlessly flew into other than air.....(night VMC think Superstition mountain, mid air collision, and improper IFR, Runway LOC, and “hey watch this”)
(2) Pilot expected performance wildly beyond capability of the aircraft (high density altitude, Wintertime climbout from big rocks, four in a C172 with full fuel, Baron with five up and full Fuel and uphill runway eg. St. Ignace accident, etc).
(3) Pilot was cognitively impaired (drugs, fatigue, long duty cycle).
(4) Pilot departed with known deficiency (propped the B58 and geared it up, Y***** J***** accident in Newark).
(5) Pilot was a scofflaw (no medical, out of annual, no BFR, “What-did-you-expect”).
(6) Pilot ran out of go-juice (planes fly better with go-juice).
(7) Pilot fails to request help.
(8) Pilot FAIL in icing conditions (think TMB 850 accident at MMU).
(9) Pilot did a **** poor job with the planning and failed to abort the accident chain (get-there-it is, both fuel and weather).
(10) Pilot failed to perform adequate on-ground actions

(11) Pilots are grossly under-trained and/or incapable of operating the equipment they are flying. At least four twin accidents when engine falled after takeoff. One of them was a 337 in which the pilot forgot to start the aft engine.

(12) Pilots make incredibly stupid/irrational decisions. The King Air ran out of fuel within 2 miles of destination because the pilot made a few cents per gallon if fuel bought at home base.

(13) Pilots make incredibly stupid/irrational decisions. The Seneca pilot in the next hangar was a serial scud runner until the odds--and the fireball--caught up with him.

(14) Pilots make incredibly stupid/irrational decisions. The pilot left Steamboat Springs for Houston in his 182 with family aboard, and with known weather issues over the front range. All aboard killed.

(15) Pilots make incredibly stupid/irrational decisions. The Bonanza enroute from Dallas to a music festival in SLC stopped to refuel prior to crossing the divide in NM. After refueling he attempted to out-climb the rocks and almost made it. All dead.

 

[AdamZ]

You forgot heart disease.

 

[Ted]

You forgot heart disease.

I also forgot me hitting them with crankshafts.

 

[Geico266]

16. There are under trained pilots, and there are "over trained " pilots. Flying ultra light and sport planes we saw a lot of experienced pilots with ego problems. Some how pilots of standard aircraft think flying UL's and smaller planes is easier than bigger planes. Lots died trying to figure them out. The moral of the story is get transition training in anything you fly regardless of your experience level.

 

[Ted]

16. There are under trained pilots, and there are "over trained " pilots. Flying ultra light and sport planes we saw a lot of experienced pilots with ego problems. Some how pilots of standard aircraft think flying UL's and smaller planes is easier than bigger planes. Lots died trying to figure them out. The moral of the story is get transition training in anything you fly regardless of your experience level.

I'd call that an under-trained pilot.

I've said before that I wouldn't know how to fly a single. I'm only half joking about that.

 

[ClimbnSink]

A dispatcher with no go authority could fix most of those. All pilots having to submit flight planning and get approved before every flight, just like students. The student pilot cross country fatality/accident rate is low. And most of the student accidents you hear about are mechanical(not on the likely to kill you list.)

 

[Ted]

A dispatcher with no go authority could fix most of those. All pilots having to submit flight planning and get approved before every flight, just like students. The student pilot cross country fatality/accident rate is low. And most of the student accidents you hear about are mechanical(not on the likely to kill you list.)

I don't know, the knowledge that running out of fuel has killed lots of people and knowing everyone on the internet would talk about how stupid I was has helped motivate me to make conservative fuel decisions, and once to even land 30 nm from my destination for fuel concerns.

 

[N747JB]

I'd call that an under-trained pilot.

I've said before that I wouldn't know how to fly a single. I'm only half joking about that.

Having transitioned from a Citation to a 414A, I can honestly say I wasn't real sure how to start it! I spent 5-6 hours with an instructor relearning piston operations. When we bought the 182 I figured I'd just jump in it and go, after all that's what I learned to fly in! I ended up spending the better part of a day with my CFI trying to make decent landings!
So, it's always good to get transitional training!

 

[Ted]

Having transitioned from a Citation to a 414A, I can honestly say I wasn't real sure how to start it! I spent 5-6 hours with an instructor relearning piston operations. When we bought the 182 I figured I'd just jump in it and go, after all that's what I learned to fly in! I ended up spending the better part of a day with my CFI trying to make decent landings!
So, it's always good to get transitional training!

Yeah, I'd have an easier time hopping in a 414 and flying it than a 172, I believe.

 

[wabower]

When the Eclipse/Adam/VLJ craze was nearing the (supposed) time they would be placed in service in great numbers, the "can the owners-pilots obtain insurance?" questions were rampant. As part of the underwriting requirement a method of accountability was set in motion among members of the group, but obviously never materialized into a functionally operational organization.

A dispatcher with no go authority could fix most of those. All pilots having to submit flight planning and get approved before every flight, just like students. The student pilot cross country fatality/accident rate is low. And most of the student accidents you hear about are mechanical(not on the likely to kill you list.)

 

[Ted]

When the Eclipse/Adam/VLJ craze was nearing the (supposed) time they would be placed in service in great numbers, the "can the owners-pilots obtain insurance?" questions were rampant. As part of the underwriting requirement a method of accountability was set in motion among members of the group, but obviously never materialized into a functionally operational organization.

Is there a reason why the Eclipse or another VLJ would be harder to insure than a single pilot Citation?

 

[jnmeade]

Lots of emotion and not much science, but it will make for a lively discussion. What more could we ask for?

 

[Alexb2000]

Ted-

It's a great topic.

If I had to list a single encompassing reason why many pilots die:

Normalization of Deviance

For example I wonder when someone runs out of fuel how many times they have pushed the fuel in the past without any negative effect. First 20 gals is a hard rule. Then one flight they skip a stop and land with 10, all seems well. Then 10 becomes the standard and so on. One day when they run out of fuel we all just say they were stupid, just don't run out of fuel and it won't happen to you. BUT we all have tendencies to normalize deviance and each of us could be headed down the same path without ever noticing it and that's why it continues to happen (remember the AA flight that landed and ran out of fuel on the taxiway and had to be towed in).

 

[dell30rb]

A dispatcher with no go authority could fix most of those. All pilots having to submit flight planning and get approved before every flight, just like students. The student pilot cross country fatality/accident rate is low. And most of the student accidents you hear about are mechanical(not on the likely to kill you list.)

Frankly this is a terrible idea. It ruins the foundation of flying GA. You tellin me I gotta call some government **** and get permission before I go fly?

It could also backfire big time from a safety standpoint. Bozo X was hesitant about the weather, but his flight plan was approved so he launched anyway.

 

[ClimbnSink]

You want freedom or safety? Pro pilots are safer because they answer to someone, want the same safety for GA autonomy has to go. Yes it is a terrible idea, but it would work, all the talky talk crap will not. Grovel before your new safety overlord.

Frankly this is a terrible idea. It ruins the foundation of flying GA. You tellin me I gotta call some government **** and get permission before I go fly?

It could also backfire big time from a safety standpoint. Bozo X was hesitant about the weather, but his flight plan was approved so he launched anyway.

 

[N801BH]

What kills pilots ?? ..

It is usually the sudden stop that follows a string of poor decisions..

 

[Ted]

You want freedom or safety? Pro pilots are safer because they answer to someone, want the same safety for GA autonomy has to go. Yes it is a terrible idea, but it would work, all the talky talk crap will not. Grovel before your new safety overlord.

What do you base this on? Most 135 operators that I deal with don't have dispatch.

Your trolling of the safety overlord isn't based in any form of reality and isn't what anybody is advocating. Training is the real reason pro pilots are safer.

 

[wabower]

Sheer numbers of projected units, significantly higher cost and makeup of projected pilot population. It obviously didn't happen, but the issue had to be resolved before the "sky was blackened with VLJ's" as some newspaper breathlessly reported.

Is there a reason why the Eclipse or another VLJ would be harder to insure than a single pilot Citation?

 

[Ted]

Sheer numbers of projected units, significantly higher cost and makeup of projected pilot population. It obviously didn't happen, but the issue had to be resolved before the "sky was blackened with VLJ's" as some newspaper breathlessly reported.

I do see promise there, especially as the used prices decrease. I can't see why people would buy a Meridian or a TBM when they could have an Eclipse, and as the prices descend closer to that of a 340 today, it'll probably drive twin Cessna prices even lower.

But that's not my area of expertise.

 

[Jaybird180]

A dispatcher with no go authority could fix most of those. All pilots having to submit flight planning and get approved before every flight, just like students. The student pilot cross country fatality/accident rate is low. And most of the student accidents you hear about are mechanical(not on the likely to kill you list.)

Only works with renters. Try telling the guy who just dropped $860 large on a brand new 5-seat Turbo FIKI Cirrus.

I've said before that I wouldn't know how to fly a single. I'm only half joking about that.

Clever pun sir.

 

[wabower]

Hard to say what will happen. We're seeing/hearing much more interest from owners of piston twins seeking to move to turbines. I assume that the improved economy has more to do with it than some sudden recognition of additional benefits.

I do see promise there, especially as the used prices decrease. I can't see why people would buy a Meridian or a TBM when they could have an Eclipse, and as the prices descend closer to that of a 340 today, it'll probably drive twin Cessna prices even lower.

But that's not my area of expertise.

 

[Ted]

Hard to say what will happen. We're seeing/hearing much more interest from owners of piston twins seeking to move to turbines. I assume that the improved economy has more to do with it than some sudden recognition of additional benefits.

Probably something to that, along with the significantly lower purchase cost of turbines today and safety benefits. The piston twins without a doubt leave a lot to be desired, but they do serve their place.

What I look at with the Eclipse is a similar cabin size and MPG to a 340 with substantially higher performance. On paper it looks like a good family plane. It'd even make a good dog hauler.

 

[N801BH]

.....
What I look at with the Eclipse is a similar cabin size and MPG to a 340 with substantially higher performance. On paper it looks like a good family plane. It'd even make a good dog hauler.

I wanna be a dog when I grow up..

 

[ClimbnSink]

What do you base this on? Most 135 operators that I deal with don't have dispatch.

Your trolling of the safety overlord isn't based in any form of reality and isn't what anybody is advocating. Training is the real reason pro pilots are safer.

Nope. Not training, pro pilots die in GA at the same rate as hobby pilots. Having a master is the answer.

 

[Ted]

I wanna be a dog when I grow up..

We're a long way from affording the DogJet, Ben.

Nope. Not training, pro pilots die in GA at the same rate as hobby pilots. Having a master is the answer.

So how do you explain the 135 operators without dispatch who are seeing better rates? Magic?

 

[N801BH]

We're a long way from affording the DogJet, Ben.

QUOTE]

Not if I win the lawsuit againt DeltaHawk...

 

[moonshine]

Interestingly enough, FAA claims that

The Top 10 Leading Causes of Fatal General Aviation Accidents 2001-2011
1. Loss of Control Inflight
2. Controlled Flight Into Terrain
3. System Component Failure – Powerplant
4. Low Altitude Operations
5. Unknown or Undetermined
6. Other
7. Fuel Related
8. System Component Failure – Non-Powerplant
9. Midair Collisions
10. Windshear or Thunderstorm

 

[N801BH]

Interestingly enough, FAA claims that

The Top 10 Leading Causes of Fatal General Aviation Accidents 2001-2011
1. Loss of Control Inflight
2. Controlled Flight Into Terrain
3. System Component Failure – Powerplant
4. Low Altitude Operations
5. Unknown or Undetermined
6. Other
7. Fuel Related
8. System Component Failure – Non-Powerplant
9. Midair Collisions
10. Windshear or Thunderstorm

I will buy the reasons... I won't buy the order they are in..

 

[Fearless Tower]

Nope. Not training, pro pilots die in GA at the same rate as hobby pilots. Having a master is the answer.

Oh yeah....those dispatchers do a great job of saving folks when the PIC pulls the yoke full back into his gut during a stall recovery.

 

[SCCutler]

While it may not be the same thing is a true dispatcher, I have taken to consulting with experienced and trusted pilots when faced with a challenging weather flight decision. Quite frequently, after having obtained a briefing and reviewed the various other sources of information, I find it very useful to talk through the situation with one of these pilots (I will call them "mentors"). It can be very useful, and interestingly enough, while I rarely find myself changing my mind as a result of the conversation I often find affirmation of the reasoning I used to make my decision.

Most, if not all, of the people I rely upon as mentors can be found on these pages. The exchange of ideas, without insult, can be a powerful force for safety.

 

[ClimbnSink]

We're a long way from affording the DogJet, Ben.



So how do you explain the 135 operators without dispatch who are seeing better rates? Magic?

They still have a boss. Take away our master and us dumb slaves do stupid s***.

 

[Ted]

Not if I win the lawsuit againt DeltaHawk...

Let me know when to start shopping!

 

[Ted]

They still have a boss. Take away our master and us dumb slaves do stupid s***.

How many 135s have you worked for or with?

 

[Jaybird180]

I will buy the reasons... I won't buy the order they are in..

+1
.

 

[moonshine]

I will buy the reasons... I won't buy the order they are in..

Hey, I'm just quoting
http://www.faa.gov/news/fact_sheets/news_story.cfm?newsId=13672

 

[steingar]

So how do you explain the 135 operators without dispatch who are seeing better rates? Magic?

Watching those Alaska airplane shows I remarked to my pal how I was in awe of the skills of those pilots. He poo-poo'd me, saying that if we did that every day we'd be just as good as them. I suspect he's right. I expect people who do something every day to be way better than amateur-fly-on-the-nice-weekends little old me. They also have lots more recurrent training than I do, by the way.

 

[Skylane81E]

How many 135s have you worked for or with?

I don't know, but I know the boss likes to get paid, and that only happens when the plane flys, sure smoking holes are bad for the boss, but it is arguably worse for the pilot

 

[TriGear28]

They still have a boss. Take away our master and us dumb slaves do stupid s***.

Our 'Master' Is our inherent desire to live. The Master you speak of isn't responsible for the safety and operation of the flight. What qualifications should such a soul have and by which Objective standards by which do they make their decisions?

 

[TriGear28]

Our 'Master' Is our inherent desire to live. The Master you speak of isn't responsible for the safety and operation of the flight. What qualifications should such a soul have and by which Objective standards by which do they make their decisions?

Also, most scheduled air carrier pilots I know often complain about the opposite. That dispatchers have done things, over the years, that they feel compromise the safety of the operation. Things like 'Move some bags from the baggage area inside the a/c cabin because a carry-on weighs less than checked on paper.' in order to avoid being over weight. These kinds of things have happened over the years.

 

[Threefingeredjack]

Watching those Alaska airplane shows I remarked to my pal how I was in awe of the skills of those pilots. He poo-poo'd me, saying that if we did that every day we'd be just as good as them. I suspect he's right. I expect people who do something every day to be way better than amateur-fly-on-the-nice-weekends little old me. They also have lots more recurrent training than I do, by the way.

+1 Currency is the key. When I was making my very first approach during my quals for operating off cutters I looked at the back of the 210 we were settling down to, and although it was nearly dead calm, the gentle roll and forward motion of the boat seemed insurmountable. Years later plonking down on a crappy Alaskan night was just what you did to get to the hot coffee.