What is too windy for training in a 172?

Henning said:
Half the cruising speed of the airplane would be nice for a training flight, especially after hour 20 or so when you have a better grasp and understanding of things. We did a couple of my training flights in 60+ kt winds when the Santana's were blowing, kinda cool to do a hover landing in a 152. A couple of good high wind flights should be in everyone's primary training.
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That is almost a hurricane!! Here in Florida I like to have my airplane either gone or secure in a hangar when the hurricanes come!:hairraise:
 
Henning said:
Half the cruising speed of the airplane woul be nice for a training flight, especially after hour 20 or so when you have a better grasp and understanding of things. We did a couple of my training flights in 60+ kt winds when the Santana's were blowing, kinda cool to do a hover landing in a 152. A couple of good high wind flights should be in everyone's primary training.
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:yikes: my main concern would be ground ops with those kinda winds. Ive watched a 210 nose over in winds gusting to about 50. My personal rule of thumb is that when the winds get up to 45 or so, I make sure the plane is tied down tight and drink a cold beer.:wink2:
 
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Out here I have heard of ranchers flying in a cub in 40-50 and "hovering" till someone can come out and be wing walkers.

I like to make sure the students can land with it gusting to 25 or so. We make sure to practice it and our normal flights are often up to 22. That's just how it is here so, well, that's how we fly. I try to wait till its no more than 15 for first solo.

And, yes, taxiing is the big concern
 
Sandy Lambert is a friend flew L-19's in the Pacific Islands before taking over the family's sash and door business. He had a photo sequence that had been taken by the base photog during a hover-down onto his tie-down pad. He said it's almost better to be a tad long and then be blown back over the target than to try to add enough power to ooch forward.

Jeanie said:
Out here I have heard of ranchers flying in a cub in 40-50 and "hovering" till someone can come out and be wing walkers.

I like to make sure the students can land with it gusting to 25 or so. We make sure to practice it and our normal flights are often up to 22. That's just how it is here so, well, that's how we fly. I try to wait till its no more than 15 for first solo.

And, yes, taxiing is the big concern
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I feel safer in the air in high wind conditions than on the ground. I'd set reasonable personal limits within which you are comfortable. Then, when a day pops up that is outside of those limits, call up your CFI and go train until that becomes your new limit.

Pushing yourself is never a bad thing, but don't ever do anything that you're uncomfortable with - it's all about state-of-mind IMO.
 
GCA319 said:
:yikes: my main concern would be ground ops with those kinda winds. Ive watched a 210 nose over in winds gusting to about 50. My personal rule of thumb is that when the winds get up to 45 or so, I make sure the plane is tied down tight and drink a cold beer.:wink2:
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THAT is exactly why everyone should have a couple training flights in high wind conditions, that is preventable by using the correct control positions (climb into the wind, dive away from the wind) while taxiing. Fly the plane from tiedown to tiedown is the lesson learned.
 
Wind tolerance is something that must be learned and practiced. More than just getting it on the runway there's a need to learn to read the terrain and gain the situational awareness to expect what's going to happen. Unexpected down drafts on short final can be quite a problem.

Even here in New England the winter weather is often 20-30kt with a 10+ knot gust with mechanical turbulence added in. For students who learn to fly during summer this can be quite daunting, but being unable to handle it can be deadly.

With unexpected IFR you can usually get down at a nearby field even if with an ASR/PAR approach, being unable to land in a stiff crosswind or being unable to handle a stiff headwind (x-wind on base) you may not be able to get down within safe fuel range. Its worse yet if the runway is wet/snowy/icy since hydroplaning becomes more of an issue.

Build the skill and confidence to do this well, if your instructor can't teach it to you find someone who can even if its only to work on that specific task.
 
LDJones said:
It depends on where you are in your training. Presolo it's probably not all that productive to train in strong, gusty winds. Down the road I'd consider it a plus to have a challenging day.
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My exception to this general rule is that I will take a student out on a day like this presolo and do ground reference maneuvers :yes:.

Ryan
 
Henning said:
THAT is exactly why everyone should have a couple training flights in high wind conditions, that is preventable by using the cor control positions (climb into the wind, dive away from the wind) while taxiing. Fly the plane from tiedown to tiedown is the lesson learned.
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Correct control positions are important, but once the wind gets to a certain point, they're not going to do a whole lot for you. I have a story to back this up, but I wont post it on here :wink2:
 
acluffpoa said:
I'm not convinced gaining confidence to fly in dangerous conditions is a good thing. I've learned to stay home and be confident that it was a good decision to not fly..
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This my thoughts as well. Especially for a new pilot. It one thing to train for just in case situations but another thing to knowingly put yourself in danger as an inexperienced new student pilot.
 
btstrawberry said:
This my thoughts as well. Especially for a new pilot. It one thing to train for just in case situations but another thing to knowingly put yourself in danger as an inexperienced new student pilot.
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Wow, you resurrected an 11 year old thread!

There's a difference in dangerous conditions. Some conditions are generally only dangerous to the untrained - and then there are conditions that I wouldn't take off in. It's a relative scale, and you shouldn't lack training and feel grounded (in conditions that other pilots routinely operate in) for lack of training and practice.
 
Several years after buying a 150, I had gotten (overly) comfortable with gnarly crosswind landings. On a cross country I was overflying an airport and noticed the windsock was 90 off the runway so I decided to drop in and do a touch and go. I don't remember exactly the wind velocity but the wind sock was not sagging. Everything was perfect up to the time I started the go around. To this day I don't know what happened but I was headed at the hangars before I knew it. I recovered but ever since I would only do full stop landings when there was a significant crosswind.
 
At some point the training ends and you become a pilot and the fact is that it is impossible to always accurately predict what the wind is going to be at your destination. Mostly you're going to have a good idea but sooner or later you'll be faced with the unexpected. So the question of "what is too windy for instruction" ultimately depends on you and your instructor. Some of the value in instruction is them showing you how to do it rather than just telling you how it's done.
 
JasonM said:
What wind speed would you not get training in as a student pilot or what wind speed would you not train a student pilot as the CFI?

I understand the crosswind limitations, so lets assume that is not an issue, we can takeoff and land into the wind and its just windy.
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Early training wind can distract from learning. Later training wind is good practice
 
sansoneservices said:
Early training wind can distract from learning. Later training wind is good practice
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Thats exactly what happened to me. This spring was windy every day flights were scheduled. Most times 10-20 with gusts. For the life of me I couldn't figure out landings. About 15 hours worth of touch and goes. One day it was very calm, took 4 landings. CFI got out and I soloed. Am probably a better pilot because if my initial experience, but it was expensive.
 
@btstrawberry Welcome to PoA

A good first step is looking at the demonstrated crosswind that a test pilot flew. During your training your instructor should be bringing in more flights to give experience with crosswinds.
 
sansoneservices said:
Early training wind can distract from learning. Later training wind is good practice
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Agree as well.
I started in Feb. and there was quite a bit of wind. We did a lot of crosswind practice intentionally in like 15G25. The instructor said I was doing good, but I swear I felt like I was going to crash every landing. A few lessons later, we did night landings on a calm night and it let me focus much more on what he was trying to teach and the feel of the plane overall.
I'm sure the crosswinds helped, but I'd much rather have done it in reverse to start with.

Another thing that helped my landings, was the 172 went down for repairs after a deer strike and they switched us to a DA40. It was just easier to land consistently for some reason.
And after being used to the DA40's extra speed, when we switched back to the 172, wow it was easier.
Funny thing, the first pattern, downwind in the 172 after getting out of the DA40, I looked at my instructor and said, "I would never buy a 172".
 
sansoneservices said:
Early training wind can distract from learning. Later training wind is good practice
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I taught at KAPA in Colorado where the wind direction typically moved clockwise. Main runways N-S. Winds light from the SE in the morning, increasing in intensity to a strong direct westerly crosswind in mid afternoon, and diminishing in the evening. We’d schedule lessons accordingly based on how advanced the student was.
 
Another consideration is that exceeding the demonstrated crosswind published in the POH (and usually on a placard in view of the pilot) could invalidate your hull insurance should it end badly.
 
It depends on the student and where they are in the process.

With a student just starting to learn pattern operations then the limit would be pretty low. He isn't going to be able to learn with the plane bouncing around in strong winds. As he gets closer to solo, the limits are higher as he understands how to fly a pattern and land but need to expand his skill. Post-solo, the limits would be even higher.

You want to keep the student challenged but not overloaded.
 
kclimie said:
The flight school I'm using has a 20/10 limitation on solo work for flight training. The CFIs can choose their own limitations for dual instruction, but most won't go up if the crosswind approaches or exceeds 10 knots.
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I'd like to know what flight school that is, so I can toss out the resumes of anyone who trained or taught there.
 
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