What is the real total cost of airplane ownership? Part I

[TexasAviation]

I just bought a Cherokee 180 a few months ago, so I'm not exactly seasoned at this ownership thing

I can tell you that I wouldn't buy a plane until I'd saved up cash for the purchase as well as a maintenance reserve. You may not like hearing that, but you'll be better off for it. You want your plane to be a blessing, not a curse, and going into debt for an expensive toy on a limited income is just begging for trouble.

 

[Cavorter]

First rule of ownership, NEVER ad up the costs!! I

The second rule is DON'T share that total cost with your spouse if you break the first rule.

 

[N747JB]

The second rule is DON'T share that total cost with your spouse if you break the first rule.

If you do, be prepared to either buy jewelry or sell plane!

 

[airheadpenguin]

Just stop at rule #1. If you need to know you don't want to know and should sell the plane unless you run a business

 

[jspilot]

Not to derail the thread, but what other hobby could you write a post to a message board and say "I want to buy in and own something basic, entry level, and use it about average over the year, but can only spend $1000 a month"? Seems like any other hobby, fishing, RV'ing, boating, golfing, motorcycling, hiking, etc, you saying you want to join and do the entry level stuff but you only had $1000 a month to spend would get laughs and then thousands of examples how you could probably do that hobby for half that amount.

If I went back to riding Harleys, and wrote on the message board, "looking to finance a Sportster, ride about 10 hours a month, but I have a hard limit of $1000 to spend each month, can I afford it?" people would be laughing that I would even ask that question (

Example-When I bought a brand new Road King , added accessories and financed it after 20% down, monthly payment was under 350, insurance was 60 bucks a month, and fuel was a rounding error. That would leave me with over $500 a month each month for clothes, tshirts, etc. It was a new bike so I just paid for oil changes twice a year and the biggest thing I worried about was a tire replacement at a few hundred. This was for a bike that is twice what an entry Sportster would cost. And this is for new bikes


I would imagine the same type of thing if this post was written on a boating message board. Entry level used boat needed, for going slow and needs to handle 2 people. Maybe some longer trips. Can only spend $1000 a month...

Maybe I am wrong, maybe some hobbies are this expensive, but I don't see it.

Seems like flying is truly becoming a rich mans/womans hobby if a $1000 a month is considered too little discretionary income to become an owner and be able to use the plane. Seems like the consensus here is $1000 a month for owning/financing a plane, and then another $300 to $500 a month if you want to actually use it. Or paying cash and then you could consider yourself lucky if you didn't go over the $12000 a year in maintenance and usage.

I am not knocking the OP, he is upfront with what he is comfortable with, and I am not knocking flying but to most we (me) it seems like we dont get to pick our passions, they pick us.



To get back on the thread, the OP might consider LSA's. Comes with some restrictions, but might be perfect for him.

This is such a good point. It's so sad really that GA is killing itself because of absurd prices.

To compare- I purchased a boat with my dad this year. A really nice fishing boat, new to us from built in 2007. We bought the boat out right with cash for under 30,000-- which 2007 airplane would that be possible for??? Our marina is 3,000 bucks a year and the season is roughly 6 months up here so that comes out to about 500 bucks a month for usable season time or 250 a month stretched out over the entire year. Insurance is not too bad and gas, bait and other expenses are probably around 200 a month. So essentially we own something out right and use the boat whenever we want for around 500 a month for the usable season, or around 300 or so stretched out over 12 months. It's not even close to flying.

And we all pontificate about why GA is dying??? I would have been a perfect candidate to buy a plane but when you run the numbers it's just crazy!

 

[N747JB]

Just stop at rule #1. If you need to know you don't want to know and should sell the plane unless you run a business

I've got a friend that makes a ton if money, probably in the $8-10 million per year range, he bought a new King 200 about 10 years ago. He told me to the penny what it cost him per hour! He traded it for a Premier 1, and again knew to the penny what it cost. He sold it a few years ago, it was too expensive! He isn't a pilot, and gas a good use for an airplane, he just kept adding it up and decided to charter or fly Delta.

 

[denverpilot]

This is such a good point. It's so sad really that GA is killing itself because of absurd prices.

To compare- I purchased a boat with my dad this year. A really nice fishing boat, new to us from built in 2007. We bought the boat out right with cash for under 30,000-- which 2007 airplane would that be possible for??? Our marina is 3,000 bucks a year and the season is roughly 6 months up here so that comes out to about 500 bucks a month for usable season time or 250 a month stretched out over the entire year. Insurance is not too bad and gas, bait and other expenses are probably around 200 a month. So essentially we own something out right and use the boat whenever we want for around 500 a month for the usable season, or around 300 or so stretched out over 12 months. It's not even close to flying.

And we all pontificate about why GA is dying??? I would have been a perfect candidate to buy a plane but when you run the numbers it's just crazy!

You can own and maintain a number of two seaters (especially at lower altitudes than here) on that level of funding.

Lots of people forget when looking back at the "good old days" that four seaters weren't the norm in recreational flying.

 

[jspilot]

You can own and maintain a number of two seaters (especially at lower altitudes than here) on that level of funding.

Lots of people forget when looking back at the "good old days" that four seaters weren't the norm in recreational flying.

I can't see myself ever buying a two seater. I flew a 152 around for about 50 hours and it's simply not comfortable and the amount of flyable days per year is so small that it is not really worth it.

Plus your analogy falls apart because a two seater is comparable to buying a 15 foot boat not a 23 foot boat like mine. If I bought a 15 foot boat I would not need a marina and my monthly fixed costs would be virtually nothing in the 15 footer( but so would my usable days and comfort too.)

 

[rocketflyer84]

A lot of people have warped memories of what the "good old days" of general aviation were really like.

For starters, planes that today are viewed as trainers or the sort of thing recreational flyers get hamburgers in was once seen and sold as private business aviation for executives. Seriously look at all the old ads of guys in suits with briefcases getting in a Cherokee. Those "guys in suits" today are perhaps in a TBM or chartered GA small jet. That sort of thing mostly didn't exist back in the "good old days."

 

[DaleB]

I can't see myself ever buying a two seater. I flew a 152 around for about 50 hours and it's simply not comfortable and the amount of flyable days per year is so small that it is not really worth it.

Don't mistake "number of seats" for "size of cockpit". I've never flown a 152 because I doubt I could even wedge myself in there... it's tiny and cramped. By contrast, there are a number of 2 seat planes available that are quite roomy compared to that or even a 172. I know, I'm flying one. If you only NEED two seats and haven't tried one on for size, you owe it to yourself to do so.

After I had spent a few months airplane shopping, I told my wife there were an awful lot of airplanes out there that I could afford to buy, but not to fly. The cost of fuel and the crushing burden of maintenance and replacement parts costs; the occasional ride home from a distant destination because your 1970s vintage flying carpet unravels at an inopportune time; the inability (until very recently) to install anything resembling modern avionics... there is a reason you see so many RVs and other experimentals on the ramp.

 

[FloridaPilot]

We're throwing around the idea of moving to the Tampa MSA in a couple of years depending on where the airline job hunt takes me. I can tell you I'll happily tie down the Arrow over spending that kind of cash on a hangar. I'm not gonna let artificially high storage costs keep me out of flying. If people think tying down is blasphemy, they can gofund my hangar costs.

Btw what airports are you referring to when you say the boonies? I'd be interested in living somewhat close-ish to the airport since I'll probably be using the airplane for commuting to my military job.

(48X) Manatee Airport which is a grass strip, they don't have hangar space but tie downs are available cheap. It's locked down every night and pretty safe for your plane but it is, in fact the boonies. I don't live too far from there. Advantages are: It's right next to 1-275 and I-75.

If you fly a 172 at 85mph you can burn 6gph, about 30% power. Keep it on the ramp. Liability only insurance. Do your own maintenance. If you are lucky, nothing goes wrong. Just battery, tires, brakes and lights. Maybe an avionic now and then (just have a radio, transponder and handheld gps). Fly VFR only. Skyvector for charts. Should be able to keep the costs below 75 an hour running it that way. And its easy to sell if you can no longer afford it.

(IMO) If you are constantly worried about how much something is going to cost or if it's going to break, (Which something always does) It takes the joy out of flying. I would say rent until you can absorb any maintenance costs which will inevitably come either now or later. Who is going to want to buy an airplane with problems? They are going to want at least a discount.

I just bought a Cherokee 180 a few months ago, so I'm not exactly seasoned at this ownership thing

I can tell you that I wouldn't buy a plane until I'd saved up cash for the purchase as well as a maintenance reserve. You may not like hearing that, but you'll be better off for it. You want your plane to be a blessing, not a curse, and going into debt for an expensive toy on a limited income is just begging for trouble.

^^^^^THIS^^^^^

 

[jspilot]

Don't mistake "number of seats" for "size of cockpit". I've never flown a 152 because I doubt I could even wedge myself in there... it's tiny and cramped. By contrast, there are a number of 2 seat planes available that are quite roomy compared to that or even a 172. I know, I'm flying one. If you only NEED two seats and haven't tried one on for size, you owe it to yourself to do so.

After I had spent a few months airplane shopping, I told my wife there were an awful lot of airplanes out there that I could afford to buy, but not to fly. The cost of fuel and the crushing burden of maintenance and replacement parts costs; the occasional ride home from a distant destination because your 1970s vintage flying carpet unravels at an inopportune time; the inability (until very recently) to install anything resembling modern avionics... there is a reason you see so many RVs and other experimentals on the ramp.

The only 2 seat experience I have is a 152 so nothing to compare it to. My biggest issue with 2 seaters was how small they really are and I just felt like a kite up there in any wind.

Plus, I think I may need more than 2 seats in the future so I'd rather buy the bigger plane now.

 

[saddletramp]

I find it interesting how many people come on aviation boards & want to know the true costs of owning/operating an airplane. The retort is the usual "if you have to ask you can't afford it.

The answer is quite simple... buy within your means & have plenty of cash reserves. When I bought my nearly 60 year old 182 I debated between buying an airplane I could pay cash for or...taking that set amount of cash, put down a large down payment, & make payments. I set aside $100,000. There were lot's of 182's that I could have bought for that amount but that would put my cash reserves a bit lower than I'm comfortable with. So far, I'm not regretting my decision. The 1957 182 has exceeded my expectations & even though the engine only has 450 SMOH if it pukes tomorrow I have the cash to replace it. Not a stressful purchase.

Be patient, don't be in a big hurry to buy & don't go further out on a limb than your'e willing to fall.

My .02 worth.

 

[DaleB]

The only 2 seat experience I have is a 152 so nothing to compare it to. My biggest issue with 2 seaters was how small they really are and I just felt like a kite up there in any wind.

Plus, I think I may need more than 2 seats in the future so I'd rather buy the bigger plane now.

If you need four seats, you need four seats. If you don't, the difference between a decades old 152 and a modern 2-seat E-AB or E-LSA is so big it defies explanation.

In my hangar is an RV-12. On one side is a Grumman. On the other side is a Cirrus; across from him is a Bonanza, and next door to him is an RV-10 and an RV-7A. Not one of us complains about what we fly.