What Is The Non-Towered Traffic Pattern "Size"?

  • Thread starter Thread starter KennyFlys
  • Start date Start date
id say that if you are floating down the runway in the flare, you need to slow down your approach speed, regardless of the flap setting.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Not really - PoA doesn't double-quote. I did provide the evidence that on the 182 it doesn't seem to make any difference.
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It does if you work at it! :)


flyingcheesehead said:
dmccormack said:
Why would you put it on the numbers during an ILS?

The GS leads to the touchdown point -- not the numbers.
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I dunno, force of habit. If vis is good, I see those big juicy numbers and I just gotta land on 'em. ;) So yes, I do go below glideslope/PAPI/VASI with good vis. If it's really crappy, I'll keep the glideslope just in case.
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One of the magazines this month, I think it was Aviation Safety, had an article that goes to Dan's point here, and actually goes back to the Primacy thing we were talking about. They said that the majority of GA accidents on ILS's in poor weather were UNDERSHOOTS, where the pilot, when he saw the runway, apparently tried to put it on the numbers, because that's the way it was always done in training, where it's generally VFR conditions when you "acquire" the runway. The implication is that we should teach (and practice) ILS's as following the signal (or at least the configured approach) right to the surface.
 
Everskyward said:
Midway has high-speed taxiways. :confused:

http://naco.faa.gov/d-tpp/0808/00081AD.PDF
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Mari,

Which ones? I tend to think of high-speed taxiways as ones that are maybe halfway down the runway and less than 30 degrees off runway heading. And wide, too. I suppose you could consider the east and west ends of Kilo, the north end of Papa, and Bravo, but aren't those awfully close to the rollout end of the runways to be "high-speed?"
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Which ones? I tend to think of high-speed taxiways as ones that are maybe halfway down the runway and less than 30 degrees off runway heading. And wide, too. I suppose you could consider the east and west ends of Kilo, the north end of Papa, and Bravo, but aren't those awfully close to the rollout end of the runways to be "high-speed?"
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High speed taxiways exit the runway at a diagonal instead of 90 degrees. Some of those at KMDW may be just crossing taxiways, but others seem like they were designed to be high speed exits. Bravo and delta, for instance. As far as their position on the runway, I don't think it would do any good to have high speed taxiway exits halfway down the runways at Midway because I doubt if many airliners or other jets can land and turn off that quick.
 
Everskyward said:
High speed taxiways exit the runway at a diagonal instead of 90 degrees. Some of those at KMDW may be just crossing taxiways, but others seem like they were designed to be high speed exits. Bravo and delta, for instance. As far as their position on the runway, I don't think it would do any good to have high speed taxiway exits halfway down the runways at Midway because I doubt if many airliners or other jets can land and turn off that quick.
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Heck, they can't even land and turn off at the end sometimes! :eek:
 
KennyFlys said:
I'm being told the downwind side extends out "Three Nautical Miles" from the center line. I'm not finding that in AIM 4-3. Is it written anywhere?

Thanks for the help in advance!
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I don't believe there is anything specific, I believe what you see there as 3 miles is an accepted common boundary distance that people flying by would consider "clear of the pattern". How far out you fly the downwind is determined by the plane for the most part, I fly a bigger pattern in a 421 than I do with a 152 because I'm flying it faster than the 152 so to keep my g-loading down for pax comfort, I have to make wider turns. Unless I was flying an SR-71 or the Space Shuttle, I can't see flying downwind outside 3 miles.
 
Henning said:
I don't believe there is anything specific, I believe what you see there as 3 miles is an accepted common boundary distance that people flying by would consider "clear of the pattern". How far out you fly the downwind is determined by the plane for the most part, I fly a bigger pattern in a 421 than I do with a 152 because I'm flying it faster than the 152 so to keep my g-loading down for pax comfort, I have to make wider turns. Unless I was flying an SR-71 or the Space Shuttle, I can't see flying downwind outside 3 miles.
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That was my original premise when I started this thread... over two months ago?

Those I encountered were pretty much all Skyhawks so a half-mile on downwind is pretty reasonable. That's what I teach; simply an efficient pattern that works for that airplane.

Austin will be a different story but shouldn't be too much different than what I dealt with back at PDK.
 
gprellwitz said:
One of the magazines this month, I think it was Aviation Safety, had an article that goes to Dan's point here, and actually goes back to the Primacy thing we were talking about. They said that the majority of GA accidents on ILS's in poor weather were UNDERSHOOTS, where the pilot, when he saw the runway, apparently tried to put it on the numbers, because that's the way it was always done in training, where it's generally VFR conditions when you "acquire" the runway. The implication is that we should teach (and practice) ILS's as following the signal (or at least the configured approach) right to the surface.
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This sure seems like one of those: 5 Dead, including 3 on ground
 
dmccormack said:
This sure seems like one of those: 5 Dead, including 3 on ground
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It's not coming up for me right now, but if it's the one I read about last night in Oregon, with 3 kids on the ground, they were reported as just having taken off.

http://www.comcast.net/articles/news-national/20080804/Oregon.Plane.Crash/ said:
McNally said the plane had just taken off from the airport and was apparently headed to Klamath Falls in southern Oregon.
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