olasek
Pattern Altitude
She could be Elizabeth D., she is busy demoing this aircraft in my area too. If you saw her you wouldn't bet a dime she is a Cirrus factory pilot rep.
What is it like to fly a Cirrus?
- Thread starter FloridaPilot
- Start date
Rick Wallace
Pre-Flight
So what kind of transition does it take for a 150 hour pilot to be proficient in an sr22? I am flying a 140 knot da40 with g1000, but i was told that wasnt a good transition plane? But then i read a guy got his ppl in a sr22 in an earlier post?
If you are going from a G-1000 plane into a G-1000 plane the transition will not be difficult. The most difficult part of learning the Cirrus is learning the avionics suite, you already have a very good basis on the most frustrating part of that, so I wouldn't bee too concerned. It will be easier to actually fly, especially when hand flying in IMC.
EminiTrader
Cleared for Takeoff
Rick - not much. Probably no more than 8 hours. I went as a newly minted PPL in a 172 to a SR20 in 8 hours of flight - instructor said would have been the same in the sr22.
However, Insurance requirements for ownership may be different. Had I bought SR22 instead of the 20 my insurance wanted a CSIP Training Program - a bit longer. The SR20 they didnt care - long as I was signed off by CSIP regardless of hours.
Now that I am transitioning to SR22 -they said same thing - just a sign off from CSIP
AustinPilot
Pre-takeoff checklist
Pretty simple. Cirrus is even easier to fly than most trainers IMO. Everything just happens a bit faster.
mrkbbd
Pre-takeoff checklist
How do you feel about cellulosic ethanol?
What is the return vs other uses of the material and other materials that could be used?
NoHeat
Final Approach
The standard 10 hours transition training with a CSIP (that's a CFI trained by Cirrus, and there are many of them around). That is what Cirrus recommends. Many insurers require it.
As Henning mentioned, the transition would be easy if you are moving from a G1000 to another G1000. Aside from the chute, and if you know the avionics, it's just a transition to another fixed gear single engine plane.
Since you have only 150 hours, you might want to know that only two insurance companies will write a policy for an SR22 pilot who doesn't have an instrument rating. You only need one company, so that's not a show stopper, but you can learn more about that by phoning NationAir, which is an insurance agent who serves lots of Cirrus owners.
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FloridaPilot
Pattern Altitude
Is it just as comfortable? What does a Mooney fly like, (As you can see I'm deprived). I would love to go up in a Mooney Ovation or Acclaim. I need to make some pilot friends. (Maybe Sun and fun).
FloridaPilot
Pattern Altitude
I'm a gadget nut so that works perfectly for me! I e-mailed and called the listed people on the Cirrus website. I have yet to get a call back.
FastEddieB
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Fast Eddie B
Stretching for an analogy, but comfort-wise...
Cirrus = Lexus
Mooney = Corvette
I've got a lot of Mooney time. I find them slightly claustrophobic, sitting so low with the panel so close and high - at least compared to most of the other planes I've flown. But that's clearly just a personal preference - they're fine planes with a quite rabid following - and for good reason!
jonnyjetprop
Cleared for Takeoff
FloridaPilot
Pattern Altitude
Stretching for an analogy, but comfort-wise...
Cirrus = Lexus
Mooney = Corvette
I've got a lot of Mooney time. I find them slightly claustrophobic, sitting so low with the panel so close and high - at least compared to most of the other planes I've flown. But that's clearly just a personal preference - they're fine planes with a quite rabid following - and for good reason!
Yes,
I became a member of Mooney space as well. My desire to fly is not so much as to fly fast but to be comfortable while flying so the trip won't be unbearable for me and passengers. More interested in 500-1000 nm trips with the flexibility to get there whenever I can. The Cessna 172 is out, good training airplane and I love it but I don't imagine myself owning one for 3 hour trips at a time. I'm never comfortable in the seats and it feels like I'm invading my instructors personal space every time we fly. So far I have flown the Cessna SP 172, Cessna 180 and Piper 180. I have fairly wide shoulders. That is why I would like to fly all the airplanes that I can so I can pick the right fit.
Lexus is a sweet ride and it's very comfortable, If Cirrus airplanes are like that...sign me up!
You'll be pleased with a Cirrus, as or more pleased than with any other SEL plane.
JimNtexas
Pattern Altitude
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Jim - In Texas!
The C-177 and C-177RG are very wide, wider than a C-182. No shoulder rubbing there.
Mooneys are wonderful airplanes, but roomy they are not.
Mooneys are wonderful airplanes, but roomy they are not.
VWGhiaBob
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VWGhiaBob
I see some incorrect info here, so let me contribute, having just done over a year of research, resulting in purchasing an SR22:
1. Insurance...only 2 companies for non-IFR. Wrong. There are many. Most aren't cheap, but you can get a good policy in the mid $2K's.
2. Easy to fly: Wrong. Correction: It feels easy to fly to newbies, but it's much less forgiving of mistakes. Landing a Cirrus, unlike a Cessna or Piper, requires precise airspeed control. Too slow or fast leads to bad outcomes MUCH more frequently than other planes. In addition, the yoke provides no tactile feedback. It's easier to lose control and stall unintentionally.
Even so, I chose Cirrus SR22 GTS. Why? Incredibly comfortable WIDE bucket seats with console, FAST (180knots), beautiful, efficient (12.7 gph at 170 knots) low price (they depreciate FAST when new...get a 5 - 8 year old model), redundant (e.g., 2 alternators), incredible situational awareness (Avidyne glass) and, then there's that stress-reducing parachute for circumstances when all else fails.
A close second for me was a PA32 Saratoga or C6. Great useful and 6 passengers, but no 'chute.
For the same price as a really nice old Saratoga, I got a like-new SR22. Operating costs (e.g. advanced avionics) are high, but mostly offset by lower fuel costs.
1. Insurance...only 2 companies for non-IFR. Wrong. There are many. Most aren't cheap, but you can get a good policy in the mid $2K's.
2. Easy to fly: Wrong. Correction: It feels easy to fly to newbies, but it's much less forgiving of mistakes. Landing a Cirrus, unlike a Cessna or Piper, requires precise airspeed control. Too slow or fast leads to bad outcomes MUCH more frequently than other planes. In addition, the yoke provides no tactile feedback. It's easier to lose control and stall unintentionally.
Even so, I chose Cirrus SR22 GTS. Why? Incredibly comfortable WIDE bucket seats with console, FAST (180knots), beautiful, efficient (12.7 gph at 170 knots) low price (they depreciate FAST when new...get a 5 - 8 year old model), redundant (e.g., 2 alternators), incredible situational awareness (Avidyne glass) and, then there's that stress-reducing parachute for circumstances when all else fails.
A close second for me was a PA32 Saratoga or C6. Great useful and 6 passengers, but no 'chute.
For the same price as a really nice old Saratoga, I got a like-new SR22. Operating costs (e.g. advanced avionics) are high, but mostly offset by lower fuel costs.
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FloridaPilot
Pattern Altitude
I just want to update this tread and let you know that I found a place that would take me up for 1/2 Hour for 139! That is cheap. I'm not going to say who here but PM me if you would like more info. The holidays is quickly approaching, (Thanksgiving this week) So I'm not going to be able to go this week. I will post my findings once I go up.
The price is really cheap which I will want to go up for at least 1 hour or 2!
The price is really cheap which I will want to go up for at least 1 hour or 2!
FloridaPilot
Pattern Altitude
I noticed that these planes do depreciate quickly, (From 700k to 250k in 4-6 years) Why do you think that is? I don't think I would buy a new one. That is like throwing money out of the window.
Yep, everything has a trade off, that nice fast efficient wing is more critical at low speed. I was never particularly bothered by the stick, yeah, takes a minute to get used to it and takes some of the tactile information, but as you found, there are ways to adequately compensate. Do you have speed brakes?
Glad to hear you're enjoying your new plane.
jmp470
Line Up and Wait
compare the fit and finish of a 2001 SR 22 versus a 2014 and you will understand. They have added a lot to each model. Thus, people flipped them quickly... thus, leading to a saturation of the market... Once, the supply dries up, the prices will stabilize and the depreciation will not be as bad.
This also puts the old SR's as options to people with less $$$, which is a great thing, IMO.
FloridaPilot
Pattern Altitude
Because that is the business/finance model, the depreciation is not much worse than most cars you buy new, they depreciate 30% as you drive them off the lot.
I would not buy one new either, if I had $700k to spend on a plane, I sure wouldn't buy a Cirrus, I would buy something like a Mallard outfitted as an RV and spend the rest flying it around the world.
Jaybird180
Final Approach
No disrespect to your research but your #2 is inconsistent with my experience, Cirrus' design goals and also the current stellar safety record.
They made a lot of changes to the airframe and gear stance to make the plane easier to land. Also, they tend to not want to spin, they also maintain aileron effectiveness through stalls. I haven't done spins and stalls but I've flown a 2003 and 2013 models and that my impression. Also there's a leading edge cuff on the wing to help docile the low speed characteristics.
Newbie pilots need not be afraid. Take good discipline, yes. More than a C-172, yes. But they all can but if antagonized.
FloridaPilot
Pattern Altitude
Hello,
I just wanted to update everyone. Im going up in
an SR 22 on Friday December 5 (Cant believe Christmas is in 20 days after that)
Its going to be 20 min briefing/intro and then 1 hour in the air.
I'm pretty excited about it and pics to follow.
Thanks for the advice!
I just wanted to update everyone. Im going up in
an SR 22 on Friday December 5 (Cant believe Christmas is in 20 days after that)
Its going to be 20 min briefing/intro and then 1 hour in the air.
I'm pretty excited about it and pics to follow.
Thanks for the advice!
Cool, have fun.
Wingsofglass
Pre-takeoff checklist
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Wingsofglass
I have an SR22T. Henning if I wasn't happily married and heterosexual, I'd sell it for about the $700k it's worth and fly off into the sunset with you and our newly refurbished Mallard.
Prior to owning the SR I flew a DA40. I would not describe the Cirrus as an easy plan to land. It's not hard but certainly not as easy as the DA40. Also, with 1,100 pounds of useful load it's a very different plane when near max gross than when light. This takes a little getting used to you and awareness.
As far as handling characteristics I find the plane is very benign power-off put much less forgiving power on. Not too long ago a Cirrus demo pilot was on a sales flight in Australia and was demonstrating power-on stalls and ended up needing the chute (I may have my facts wrong in that he might have been demonstrating something more aggressive).
I loved my DA40. That plane is so forgiving you can do almost anything in it and learn from the mistake. Like my wife, the Cirrus is not in that league of understanding. However the Cirrus is way more capable. Leaving the price aside, it's hard to find an easier to fly plane that can take 1,100lbs 180knots on 15.5gph up to 25,000 feet through icing conditions.
Prior to owning the SR I flew a DA40. I would not describe the Cirrus as an easy plan to land. It's not hard but certainly not as easy as the DA40. Also, with 1,100 pounds of useful load it's a very different plane when near max gross than when light. This takes a little getting used to you and awareness.
As far as handling characteristics I find the plane is very benign power-off put much less forgiving power on. Not too long ago a Cirrus demo pilot was on a sales flight in Australia and was demonstrating power-on stalls and ended up needing the chute (I may have my facts wrong in that he might have been demonstrating something more aggressive).
I loved my DA40. That plane is so forgiving you can do almost anything in it and learn from the mistake. Like my wife, the Cirrus is not in that league of understanding. However the Cirrus is way more capable. Leaving the price aside, it's hard to find an easier to fly plane that can take 1,100lbs 180knots on 15.5gph up to 25,000 feet through icing conditions.
Yeah, the Cirrus is a heck of a package, I'm interested to see how long before it gets the CD-300 engine.
FloridaPilot
Pattern Altitude
If I decide to purchase a Cirrus, I won't be doing any flat spins or power on stalls on purpose in my lifetime!
Every time I look at a Diamond it reminds me of a glider, someone told me they are the most safe, (Not many accidents).
I hear so much about Cirrus airplanes both negative and positive. Can't wait to see for myself!
FloridaPilot
Pattern Altitude
Wouldn't that be interesting to see a Cirrus with a Diesel engine?
VWGhiaBob
Line Up and Wait
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VWGhiaBob
More on landings...other things that make the Cirrus harder to land right....
1. Faster...in some cases a lot faster...80 knots short final (77 short field); I believe in preserving brakes, and use every inch of our airfield's 4,000 foot runway every time.
2. Little / no feedback from the yoke...a real adjustment when you flight Cessna' and Pipers
3. Zero forgiveness in a Cirrus. Want to porpoise? Come 5 in knots too fast. What to smack the runway? Come in 5 knots too slow.
The Cirrus is EASY for me to land now after 80 hours. I check airspeed every couple of seconds. It takes way more skill than any other plane I've flown so far, and I've flown them all.
1. Faster...in some cases a lot faster...80 knots short final (77 short field); I believe in preserving brakes, and use every inch of our airfield's 4,000 foot runway every time.
2. Little / no feedback from the yoke...a real adjustment when you flight Cessna' and Pipers
3. Zero forgiveness in a Cirrus. Want to porpoise? Come 5 in knots too fast. What to smack the runway? Come in 5 knots too slow.
The Cirrus is EASY for me to land now after 80 hours. I check airspeed every couple of seconds. It takes way more skill than any other plane I've flown so far, and I've flown them all.
They're both Chinese owned now, and while there is now private enterprise and consumerism in China, it is all still directed by the Communist Party.China did not give up on the social paradigm of Communism where industry is there to provide for society rather than vice versa, and does a pretty good job at curbing excess, destructive level greed with a bullet. When China takes us over, it'll probably be a good thing. It'll be like the end of WWII when America got all the German technology. They'll probably wait until Lockheed comes out with the Cold Fusion reactor and radical Islam has America in the throes of collapse, they will rescue us because they can absorb the attrition to combat them without nuclear weapons. If we haven't asked first, when the nukes are going to come out, China will step in, because they understand we need the resources that would destroy.
VWGhiaBob
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VWGhiaBob
Yes, a new day it is. Were it not for the Chinese, Cirrus would be out of business. And just try finding anything not made in China at Walmart.
The world changed under our feet.
For me, I'm happy that at least my plane's company remains on a solid financial foundation.
That all said, we probably should get back on topic. The world changed. We'll just have to find the strength to deal with it...and the experience to land our Cirri'!
SixPapaCharlie
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Sixer
I have a Cirrus question.
How large is the baggage area?
Isn't the chute in that portion of the plane?
I dont know how much space the chute takes up.
How large is the baggage area?
Isn't the chute in that portion of the plane?
I dont know how much space the chute takes up.
This is very true. It is much safer of a plane as a result, but part of the statistics may reflect it's operators.
Fatal rates:
DA40: ~0.35/100,000 hours
SR22: ~1.6/100,000 hours
172 is around .5-.6, and 182 around .8. GA average is 1.2, and non-certificated/experimental is something like 2-4. Piston certified Twins are close to the experimental rate, too.
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Same reason prices depreciate more on a Lincoln/Lexus/Cadillac than a Honda/Ford. There is a market of folks who want a nice plane and are not as price sensitive. There's little to no commercial value in the product as it ages, just personal use (unlike a 206, which will gladly be gobbled up by a 135 operator when it's too ugly for personal use).
SR20's will hold their value as a percentage better.
This leads to a natural supply/demand correction in the form of price. It's really no worse as a percentage when compared to other recreational goods.
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Local training outfit does Intro flight in a Cirrus SR20 for $89. It's .5 on the hobbs and the instructor thrown in for free. You'd have to come to Boise though, but commercial round trip air transportation can be included for your price
. Otherwise, rental rate is $179/hr wet.I've been meaning to take them up on the offer one of these days, but the timing has not yet worked out. I've never been in one but they look fun.
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Jaybird180
Final Approach
Im on my iphone and not looking it up: in the midair FDK thread updated stats were posted showing the Cirrus now leading the charge to reduce the overall GA fatal/ accident rate. IOW, Cirrus is the safest GA plane now.
AustinPilot
Pre-takeoff checklist
It has changed significantly in recent years. Cirrus had a lot of accidents in the early-mid 2000s but as education and training improved it has become better than GA average in the past few years. I think a lot of people jumped into them straight from trainers and made poor decisions based on assumption that the power, avionics, CAPS, etc would keep them out of trouble.
I think it reflects on both the operators and that the SR-22 typically is operated with the more intense levels of IMC they are operated in. There are a couple of outlier points that are related to fuel cell integrity that has been addressed in the most recent model.
SR22kads
Filing Flight Plan
I've been flying the SR22 now for about 3 1/2 years and love it. I transitioned from a C172 to and SR20, then made the jump to the 22. It's a very fast plane. You need to slow down well in advance of the terminal area otherwise it's easy for the plane to get ahead of you. Otherwise is extremely comfortable, and I really like the simplicity of the Avidyne system.
It's a great airplane to take my wife and 2 year old son on trips to visit family, or to fly someplace with a few buddy's to grab some lunch. I don't like it though for just local flying around the area. I like the c172 for that.
It's a great airplane to take my wife and 2 year old son on trips to visit family, or to fly someplace with a few buddy's to grab some lunch. I don't like it though for just local flying around the area. I like the c172 for that.