ATC_av8er
Pre-Flight
Is there a set distance? My home airport, BJC is 7 miles from EIK. Does this technically qualify as a cross-country flight? I do know what the FAR's say about distance for PPL X-Country, I am just asking for a general idea.
What is considered "cross country"?
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luvflyin
Touchdown! Greaser!
Whatcha do when there ain't no ski lifts. Standby for the differences between logable CC, whatcha need to get a license, or is that licentificate. Oh yeah, there are the different rating requirements. At its most basic it's ya gotta land somewheres other than from where ya took off from and ya navigated to get thar.
tawood
En-Route
I think 50 NM is the usual standard...at least that is what I use in my log.
Zeldman
Touchdown! Greaser!
For me it would be cross country. But if you are building time to advance ratings, 50 miles is cross country.
And 7 miles is still loggable cross country, but that time cannot be used for advancement.
And 7 miles is still loggable cross country, but that time cannot be used for advancement.
Shawn
En-Route
FAA defenition is pretty much any other airport you land at...50nm minimum is needed for XC time in regards to ratings as mentioned.
I personally only log over 50nm as XC.
I personally only log over 50nm as XC.
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe
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Light and Sporty Guy
A cross country needs to be 50 nm for some ratings, but not for others.
Nothing magic about the 50nm distance.
Sometimes a flight can be logged as cross country and counted as C.C. towards some particular rating.
Sometimes a flight can be logged as cross country but can not be counted as C.C. towards some particular rating.
Sometimes s flight can not be logged as cross country but can be counted as cross country towards a particular rating.
What are you trying to accomplish?
Nothing magic about the 50nm distance.
Sometimes a flight can be logged as cross country and counted as C.C. towards some particular rating.
Sometimes a flight can be logged as cross country but can not be counted as C.C. towards some particular rating.
Sometimes s flight can not be logged as cross country but can be counted as cross country towards a particular rating.
What are you trying to accomplish?
citizen5000
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citizen5000
By definition, cross-country time includes any flight conducted by a pilot in an aircraft that includes a landing at a point other than the point of departure that includes the use of dead reckoning, pilotage, electronic navigation aids, radio aids, or other navigation systems to navigate to the landing point.
To meet the requirements for a private certificate, a commercial certificate, instrument rating. Under 61.101(c), cross-country time requires a point of landing that is more than 50 nm straight-line distance from the original point of departure. 14 CFR 61.1(b)(3)(ii).
Clip4
Touchdown! Greaser!
See FAR 61.1.
Cross-country time means—
(i) Except as provided in paragraphs (ii) through (vi) of this definition, time acquired during flight—
(A) Conducted by a person who holds a pilot certificate;
(B) Conducted in an aircraft;
(C) That includes a landing at a point other than the point of departure; and
(D) That involves the use of dead reckoning, pilotage, electronic navigation aids, radio aids, or other navigation systems to navigate to the landing point.
(ii) For the purpose of meeting the aeronautical experience requirements (except for a rotorcraft category rating), for a private pilot certificate (except for a powered parachute category rating), a commercial pilot certificate, or an instrument rating, or for the purpose of exercising recreational pilot privileges (except in a rotorcraft) under §61.101 (c), time acquired during a flight—
(A) Conducted in an appropriate aircraft;
(B) That includes a point of landing that was at least a straight-line distance of more than 50 nautical miles from the original point of departure; and
(C) That involves the use of dead reckoning, pilotage, electronic navigation aids, radio aids, or other navigation systems to navigate to the landing point.
Bob,
Since you are an DE, what constitutes the measurement? Is it airport ref point airport ref point electronically or a measure from the shortest measure between edges of the airport symbols on a chart?
Cross-country time means—
(i) Except as provided in paragraphs (ii) through (vi) of this definition, time acquired during flight—
(A) Conducted by a person who holds a pilot certificate;
(B) Conducted in an aircraft;
(C) That includes a landing at a point other than the point of departure; and
(D) That involves the use of dead reckoning, pilotage, electronic navigation aids, radio aids, or other navigation systems to navigate to the landing point.
(ii) For the purpose of meeting the aeronautical experience requirements (except for a rotorcraft category rating), for a private pilot certificate (except for a powered parachute category rating), a commercial pilot certificate, or an instrument rating, or for the purpose of exercising recreational pilot privileges (except in a rotorcraft) under §61.101 (c), time acquired during a flight—
(A) Conducted in an appropriate aircraft;
(B) That includes a point of landing that was at least a straight-line distance of more than 50 nautical miles from the original point of departure; and
(C) That involves the use of dead reckoning, pilotage, electronic navigation aids, radio aids, or other navigation systems to navigate to the landing point.
Bob,
Since you are an DE, what constitutes the measurement? Is it airport ref point airport ref point electronically or a measure from the shortest measure between edges of the airport symbols on a chart?
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Bob Gardner
I was a DE in the distant past, before you were born. There is no regulation that creates the distinction that you would like to make...it is up to the examiner. You will find that examiners are very practical folks, not given to nit-picking.
My recommendation to applicants is that they choose airports five or ten miles beyond the statutory requirements.
Bob
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citizen5000
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You really should only log cross country when you fly cross country. You must land at a distant airport and have at least one leg of 50nm or more. Flying out and back with a single landing at your home airport is not cross country even if you fly more than 50nm.
Anymouse
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Total Stud Bush Pilot
For hops around the local area and pattern work, I don't enter anything in the cross country column. However, I routinely fly 200-300 miles (quite often more) straight line distance away from my point of takeoff without landing anywhere but back at my home drone. I do log those as cross country flights. If the FAA doesn't like it, who cares, I have more than enough hours of point to point cross country time to satisfy any of their rating requirements.
citizen5000
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citizen5000
I do 200nm round trips routinely landing once at home and do not log them as cross country. How do you do 300nm straight lines out and back again without refueling (600nm)?
The FAA won't care how you log time. Your log book is an honesty and integrity issue. And to a minor extent when logging without a CFI verifying your training hours is between you and your insurance company if they require the hours.
I just log >50 miles. Some people have a column for 61.1 cross country and a separate one for >50 miles
Not according to 61.1. If you fly to an airport 5 miles away, it's still considered a cross country. Personally I won't log it unless it's >50 miles away but it's still legally loggable as an XC
citizen5000
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citizen5000
By definition, cross-country time includes any flight conducted by a pilot in an aircraft that includes a landing at a point other than the point of departure that includes the use of dead reckoning, pilotage, electronic navigation aids, radio aids, or other navigation systems to navigate to the landing point.
61.1 Applies to qualifying for a certificate.
To meet the requirements for a private certificate, a commercial certificate, instrument rating. Under 61.101(c), cross-country time requires a point of landing that is more than 50 nm straight-line distance from the original point of departure. 14 CFR 61.1(b)(3)(ii).
Yea you just proved my point. Let's say I fly from ABC-DEF. I land in DEF and come back to ABC and it's a 5 mile flight. I use GPS to navigate, which is one of the criteria you mentioned above. I can log that flight as cross country time as defined by 61.1
Anymouse
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Total Stud Bush Pilot
I fly a 2600 nm plane.
dell30rb
Final Approach
I only bother to log xc when I'm going Mach 2 with my hair on fire
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Fearless Tower
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How do you keep the EFB cool when you're going that fast?
luvflyin
Touchdown! Greaser!
It just dawned on me that almost all of the hours I had when trainging for PPL were cross country. I learned to fly at a club that was on a Naval Airstation. They wouldn't let us bounce there so we had to go to another airport to play. There may have been one or two flights where we just went to the practice area and came back.
Cajun_Flyer
Pattern Altitude
Yes, but that time wouldn't count towards the xc time needed for initial certificate or future ratings. I only log the ones >50 nm for now. When I get past the IR, commercial and CFI stuff, maybe I'll include the shorter trips as well.
Fearless Tower
Touchdown! Greaser!
Exactly. It is far easier to track your required x-country time for future ratings if you limit that column to over 50nm.
Once you get your ATP, log whatever you want.
Yep I know. It sounded like the other poster said you couldn't log it as an XC unless it was greater than >50 miles.
citizen5000
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citizen5000
The distance is less important than the use of navaids or navigation and landing at another airport. But if you want a benchmark you could use 61.1 and use 50nm as your min distance. So you need to use a VOR or GPS to go 5nm? 51.1 says 50nm not 5 btw.
Again, you're proving my point. If you use a VOR, dead reckoning, pilotage, GPS, etc, regardless of distance, it's a cross country according the basic definition of an XC. It doesn't need to be 50 miles unless you're using it in furtherance of a rating. If you take off and use GPS to navigate to an airport 5 miles away, it's a cross country.
dmspilot
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All threads considered I'm starting to see that dude as a troll
eetrojan
Pattern Altitude
Yeah, my logbook has two columns, one for "ALL" and one for "OVER 50 NM":
I liked this split approach because it tracked time flying somewhere other than the practice patch, even if it was less than 50 nm.
Under FARS 61.1(4)(ii) and 61.109, of course, the DPE only cared about the cross-country time in the OVER 50 NM column.
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Anymouse
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Total Stud Bush Pilot
Back when I was still going for various certificates, I simply marked the qualifying cross country entries and totaled those up. Easy to do with an electronic logbook.
SbestCFII
Line Up and Wait
I just know that, if you're going for your instrument rating, you'll need at least 50 hours of cross-country >50 NM. I've always just logged XC as flight > 50 NM. I think how some logbooks are put together, it gets confusing. However, if you stick with the 50 NM or greater rule, you'll be fine.
Swampfox201
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Todd W.
When I was working on hours for my Commercial rating a lot of my cross countries were to a private strip because my girlfriend lived right across the road. It was awesome until I went for my checkride and the DPE measured it...49.5 miles. He sent me home because I was something like 20 cross country hours short after he threw them out.
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mtuomi
En-Route
What about ATP? Do those 500 hours need to be 50+ as well, or is it just CP/IR?
mtuomi
En-Route
Your DPE was a bit of a d*ck...
azblackbird
Pattern Altitude
Damn right dude... leave no doubt!
FYI... I said nothing about nautical. My route will be 1500+ statute broken down into 2 days... just so you know.
61.1(b)(3)(vi). The only difference is you don't actually need to land. You can fly from ABC-DEF with a distance of 50 miles, turn around without landing and it counts.
citizen5000
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citizen5000
By your definition virtually every flight is a cross country (even just looping around in the pattern). 61.1 is a definition for training qualifications. In practice, there needs to be a distinction between flying around the patch and actual cross country flying. Landing at another airport requiring some use of navigation is a little more than local flying.
But you can log anyway you want. If all your hours are listed as cross-country then if you ever needed to show your log book to someone they may question why.
Negative. A cross country requires a landing somewhere else other than the point of departure. I personally don't log anything that's under 50 miles but it's not wrong to. You're telling people that they can't log a cross country unless it's greater than 50 miles which is completely wrong. You've even quoted the definition that argues against your position.