What I learned today: "Toilet Bowl" approach for Aspen, CO

aterpster said:
This look any better?

View attachment 82265
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I've never seen a plate like this. Two questions:
  • How to plan the descent rate without precise distance info. I can see the change in altitude is about -7000', depending on which arm of the spiral is chosen, but the distance along each arm -- that looks kind of vague, I'm guessing maybe about 12 NM starting at the top of descent where they suggest an altitude, so that an angle of maybe 5.5 degrees is required on the descent, which would mean maybe -1100 fpm at 120 knots. Does it pose a problem, for planning descent rate, that they don't provide precise distances?
  • What's the altitude correction for cold temperatures that's mentioned in the notes?
 
NoHeat said:
I've never seen a plate like this. Two questions:
  • How to plan the descent rate without precise distance info. I can see the change in altitude is about -7000', depending on which arm of the spiral is chosen, but the distance along each arm -- that looks kind of vague, I'm guessing maybe about 12 NM starting at the top of descent where they suggest an altitude, so that an angle of maybe 5.5 degrees is required on the descent, which would mean maybe -1100 fpm at 120 knots. Does it pose a problem, for planning descent rate, that they don't provide precise distances?
  • What's the altitude correction for cold temperatures that's mentioned in the notes?
Click to expand...
What's missing is the plan view. There's no plan view for the Visual because the assumption is clear and probably coming in from the NW (Glenwood Springs area) which is lower in altitude. But here's the Red Table GPS approach with plan view.
 

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NoHeat said:
How to plan the descent rate without precise distance info
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Miss the mountains visually, and use the same aiming point technique you normally use on final, except aim short so you can shallow out onto the PAPIs. Idle power and full landing configuration are your friends.
 
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I have come in over the Roaring Fork River and landed. Fun stuff...............
 
murphey said:
What's missing is the plan view. There's no plan view for the Visual because the assumption is clear and probably coming in from the NW (Glenwood Springs area) which is lower in altitude. But here's the Red Table GPS approach with plan view.
Click to expand...
Don't you mean profile view?
 
NoHeat said:
I've never seen a plate like this. Two questions:
  • How to plan the descent rate without precise distance info. I can see the change in altitude is about -7000', depending on which arm of the spiral is chosen, but the distance along each arm -- that looks kind of vague, I'm guessing maybe about 12 NM starting at the top of descent where they suggest an altitude, so that an angle of maybe 5.5 degrees is required on the descent, which would mean maybe -1100 fpm at 120 knots. Does it pose a problem, for planning descent rate, that they don't provide precise distances?
  • What's the altitude correction for cold temperatures that's mentioned in the notes?
Click to expand...
1. You don't need to be that precise since you're doing it visually. In fact the spirals are not meant to be exact tracks, just an approximation of your route when entering from various directions.

2. https://nbaa.org/wp-content/uploads...AA-Cold-Temp-Restricted-Airports-20191010.pdf Basically it means that you need to add altitude to segments of the approach due to the fact that your true altitude is lower than your indicated altitude in extreme cold conditions. "High to low, look out below."
 
Would have been more impressive if runway was depicted by a "turd", THEN it'd be a nice flush pattern:eek::confused:;)

OTOH, they may be telling you what to expect on your vacation in this area:p
 
Once you land, don't forget to finish up with the 2-ply paperwork.
 
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