What happened with Patty Wagstaff?

Lots of folks are nice when they're in the spotlight handing out autographs. More interesting to see what happens when the chips are down. If someone has to be a b!+(h to be a superior acrobatic pilot, they're still a b!+(h.
Well, I was more talking about Patty one on one, in non-performer mode. She says she dislikes the autograph stuff the sponsors make her do, and I believe her.
 
To accuse an officer of having AIDS, to call them pigs? How far does she have to go before you'll say "Dang, that was messed up!"

I don't think anyone is patting her on the back. She messed up. But I'm not going to condem her to hell either. She admitted she messed up and lets move on. I'll let you condem her if she does it agian.

Oh and I still can't wait till you mess up one little bit and we all get to condem you to hell :mad3:

Those in glass houses should not throw stones.
 
I don't think anyone is patting her on the back. She messed up. But I'm not going to condem her to hell either. She admitted she messed up and lets move on. I'll let you condem her if she does it agian.

Oh and I still can't wait till you mess up one little bit and we all get to condem you to hell :mad3:

Those in glass houses should not throw stones.

I mess up quite frequently, but my mess ups are not usually defended as fervently as hers were.

I'll give Patty credit for taking ownership of her mistakes (even if it was an underhanded "I only did it because I was mistreated" type of ownership), and I surely hope that she doesn't make this kind of mistake again.

DWI is not excusable, but it is forgivable if it never happens again. The way people are reacting to her makes me think she'll jump right up and do it again tomorrow though, since "She lives an extreme lifestyle, and therefore has to drink to make up for it."

I sincerely hope she never makes the mistake again, lest she kill an innocent next time. Further, I sure hope that her next encounter with police is slightly more respectful since they're there to protect people.
 
I mess up quite frequently, but my mess ups are not usually defended as fervently as hers were.

The ferver used to defend her here was only in response to the fervor of the people whom condemed her. The defenders were only provideing a possible conterpoint to those condeming her without facts and who would consider her "dead to me now" over a first offense.
 
The ferver used to defend her here was only in response to the fervor of the people whom condemed her. The defenders were only provideing a possible conterpoint to those condeming her without facts and who would consider her "dead to me now" over a first offense.

+1,000

Does a conviction in the PoA court of public opinion lead to stonings?


Trapper John
 
What does meeting anyone have to do with anything here? I once met a guy that seemed really nice, and is now in jail for another 8 years for murder. I wasn't out there backing him after he shot a 12 year old boy in the head saying "Well, he was nice, so we should cut him slack."

Hold on, when did I ever say we should cut her some slack? When you were accusing her, I was saying facts need to come out first, which they had not. I've not said that we should cut her some slack. I have said that I still like her and will still go to her airshows, and honestly I think she's dealt with enough given the fact that people like you have made the statements you have. I'm not asking you to cut her some slack, but you are also on the offensive as if you don't make mistakes.

And as to what meeting her has to do with anything, you're basing your entire opinion on an article. You have nothing else to go by. I'm not saying I'm a close personal friend, but you're even less qualified than I am to make a judgement.

To accuse an officer of having AIDS, to call them pigs? How far does she have to go before you'll say "Dang, that was messed up!"

Actually, that sounds pretty funny to me. But I'm not blessed with a sense of humor, so what do I know. :rolleyes:

Would you say you've never said anything idiotic while drunk? Pretty doubtful. Not necessarily in that same vein, but still, drunk people say stupid things. I've yet to find exceptions to this rule when you add appropriate amounts of alcohol.

Furthermore, you still weren't there. You're basing it all on an article and acting as though you're a expert. Then, when people disagree with you, you become aggressive towards them.

Believe me, I'm the same. I can put off a pretty nice vibe, but man, I can be a real ass when I have to be.

And so if people choose to judge you based on the ass portion, do you figure that's representative? Probably not, because from what I know of you from talking to you you seem like a nice guy (but what do I know?). I would be highly surprised if you were in any situation that caused the same level of comments that you've put towards Patty that you would happily accept the criticism.

While I won't say I can't wait for you to mess up so we get to condemn you, should you find yourself in a bad situation, don't expect much sympathy, at least not from me. I won't condemn you, either, though.

Maybe not surprising, but I don't know that I'd say acceptable. I used to drink that too...in High School. But then I grew up. Apparently people like Patty never did.

I didn't say acceptable, I said not surprising. I never said to let people get off with something they were guilty of, but I also realized a while ago (still working on fully implementing it into my own life) to minimize the number of stones I throw. While my house is not entirely glass, it has its share of windows.
 
Quick, someone please invoke Godwin's Law so we can end this thread!


Trapper John
 
If people would just shut their trap, use the word sir, and not make a scene they'd run into a lot less problems with the police. This could have probably been completely avoided with the proper attitude....

For some good tips:
 
Chris Rock's stock just went up in my portfolio. Too bad Patty didn't see that a year ago. They oughta make that thing required viewing in all driver training programs, even with the R-language.
 
Well, I was more talking about Patty one on one, in non-performer mode. She says she dislikes the autograph stuff the sponsors make her do, and I believe her.


Then she should stop accepting THE MONEY the sponsors give her. Its her choice, nobody is forcing her to do this. Pretty easy choice if you ask me. Sounds a bit hypocritical though.
 
If people would just shut their trap, use the word sir, and not make a scene they'd run into a lot less problems with the police. This could have probably been completely avoided with the proper attitude....
Absolutely. It just takes some of us longer to learn that than it does others... and some never learn... or relapse on occasion.
 
Well, I was more talking about Patty one on one, in non-performer mode. She says she dislikes the autograph stuff the sponsors make her do, and I believe her.


What any entertainer should realize is that they are nothing without their fans. The only reason any celebrity is endorsed by anyone is that the endorser thinks that people will watch said celebrity and form a favorable association with their product. While Wagstaff may be a formidable pilot, she is first and foremost an entertainer. The public makes her what she is, and signing autographs and appearing in public is a major part of her job. That she doesn't like it speaks volumes to me.
 
If people would just shut their trap, use the word sir, and not make a scene they'd run into a lot less problems with the police. This could have probably been completely avoided with the proper attitude....

For some good tips:

What a hoot! Nice post Jesse.

Best,

Dave
 
Lots of folks are nice when they're in the spotlight handing out autographs. More interesting to see what happens when the chips are down. If someone has to be a b!+(h to be a superior acrobatic pilot, they're still a b!+(h.

I've never really seen Patty in the autograph sessions - I've had her pour me several margaritas outside the spotlight, though, and she was nice as could be then too. I don't think she's a "mean drunk".

However, when provoked, well, drunk people aren't exactly known for their logic. Given the terrible attitude of the security personnel at OSH last year, I'm sure they had her mad as hell before the cops ever showed up. That doesn't excuse her behavior at all, but calling her a "b!+(h" based solely on that doesn't exactly hold water either. I bet with sufficient liquor and provocation, I could turn you into an @$$hole too.
 
I've never really seen Patty in the autograph sessions - I've had her pour me several margaritas outside the spotlight, though, and she was nice as could be then too. I don't think she's a "mean drunk".

However, when provoked, well, drunk people aren't exactly known for their logic. Given the terrible attitude of the security personnel at OSH last year, I'm sure they had her mad as hell before the cops ever showed up. That doesn't excuse her behavior at all, but calling her a "b!+(h" based solely on that doesn't exactly hold water either. I bet with sufficient liquor and provocation, I could turn you into an @$$hole too.

Probably could at that. Everyone tells me I'm a nice drunk, but you've made me mad enough to behave like an @$$hole. But that doesn't matter. I'm not in the public eye, celebrities are. And if she was soused enough for the ethanol to be an excuse for that sort of behavior, she had no business driving a car.
 
Ah, so we SHOULD have different standards for celebrities when it comes to personal behavior - perhaps not legally, but for them to maintain their celebrity status. I agree with that. If you are going to get compensated because you're a role model, then you oughtta be a role model in public (and OSH is public).

Stop being a role model, and don't be surprised if your compensation dries up.
 
The public makes her what she is, and signing autographs and appearing in public is a major part of her job.
The key word here being "job".
That she doesn't like it speaks volumes to me.
Do you like every aspect of your job? I'm guessing no, just like everyone else. However, it's probably a good idea for people, including her, to keep that to themselves, at least as far as the customers are concerned. I have never met Patty Wagstaff nor have I seen her perform so I have no particular feeling one way or the other about her. Still I think that when you have a product to sell and the product is yourself you need to accept that both the good and the bad are fair game. This would be in contrast to people who are thrust into the pubic eye through circumstance.
 
She chooses to make her living as an entetainer which involves pleasing people. She chooses to take money from sponsors to sign autographs and interact with the public. If she dislikes that aspect of the job she should at the minimum not vocalize that too much.
 
The ferver used to defend her here was only in response to the fervor of the people whom condemed her. The defenders were only provideing a possible conterpoint to those condeming her without facts and who would consider her "dead to me now" over a first offense.


Actually, the fervor of some who were accused of "condemning her" on this board (or on the red board) were actually opinions based on years of being involved in the legal system and recognizing that a bird that quacks is almost always a duck. That, and we didn't appreciate some folks' opinions that we should withhold our comments of whether she was a binging menace out of respect of her skills (like that is supposed to matter) but everyone should feel free to openly share blatant misstatements about police and legal procedure and make comments assuming that all the deputies and security that night were Barnies. But whattayaknow...the duck indeed quacked :nono:

And speaking of quacking ducks, when you say first offense I will assume you mean first time caught.
 
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Actually, the fervor of some who were accused of "condemning her" on this board (or on the red board) were actually opinions based on years of being involved in the legal system and recognizing that a bird that quacks is almost always a duck. That, and we didn't appreciate some folks' opinions that we should withhold our comments of whether she was a binging menace out of respect of her skills (like that is supposed to matter) but everyone should feel free to openly share blatant misstatements about police and legal procedure and make comments assuming that all the deputies and security that night were Barnies. But whattayaknow...the duck indeed quacked :nono:

And speaking of quacking ducks, when you say first offense I will assume you mean first time caught.

Oh yea so lets Fry her and everyone esle who's ever made a mistake :rolleyes:

That includes all the officers that let the power intrusted to them go to their head and give a bad repuation to all of them.

And lets not forget to fry those who judged and condeme someone based soley on the fact they "quacked like a duck" and not giveing everyone the benifit of the doubt that is the foundation of our legal system.

If you can't treat everyone as innocent untill proven guilty... then you need to find a new profession as you are contribution to the poor public oppinion on the profession.

You say that she should be held to a higher standard because she it in the public eye. So should all the law enforcment officers out there.
 
Actually we SHOULD hold those officers that overstep their bounds accountable.

What I am having a problem with is the apparent collective shrug by many in regards to her actions and words towards the law enforcement officers.

Being a police officer is tough enough with the few idiot cops that give the rest a bad name without the general public basically saying "screw them, we can talk how we want to to them because, well, ya know that jerk cop gave me a ticket 15 years ago".

Her actions that night were inexcusable, period. She should be apologizing not to you and me, but to the officers involved, personally and with contrite humility.

I doubt that will happen though....instead she is remorseful, most likely, because she got caught.
 
I have yet to see any witness reports contradicting those of law enforcement and EAA security, and there were several (three?) people in the truck with her when she was arrested. One would think that if she had not acted as charged, one or more of her passengers would have spoken up to defend her. In addition, the police reports in the link above were consistent without sounding rehearsed. Put that all together, and it's hard to make an argument that Ms. Wagstaff was inappropriately treated in this case.
 
Being a police officer is tough enough with the few idiot cops that give the rest a bad name without the general public basically saying "screw them, we can talk how we want to to them because, well, ya know that jerk cop gave me a ticket 15 years ago"

I keep on hearing this from police and supporters of police. Yet the cops I come across usually seem to be the idiot ones, no matter how respectful and cooperative I am. I'd say about 70% of them are the "bad eggs". I did have at least one encounter with the rent-a-cops at Osh and they were completely out of line. I'm not the only one to say this, pretty much everyone who was there this past year felt the same. My comments in this thread reflected the Osh rent-a-cops. They really were awful. If she yelled at them and treated them poorly, I personally do believe they deserved it. There were certainly times when I wanted to do the same.

I would never say that being a cop is an easy job. It's not a job that I would ever want. What annoys me to no end is the way that I've been treated by them, which is not warranted by my actions towards them. Maybe all the good cops are off doing the real work, leaving the bad ones to give the public the impression that they have, but I am simply not convinced.

Not saying Patty didn't screw up, not saying she wasn't out of line, not saying she shouldn't get appropriate punishment. I'd just like to see people here stop talking about her like you'd talk about the FAA inspector who cited you for some minor violation on your plane during a ramp check.
 
Actually we SHOULD hold those officers that overstep their bounds accountable.

Should, but I have only seen very gross missteps actually held accountable. All others that don't get a huge public outcry get protected by the ol' boys network.

I doubt that will happen though....instead she is remorseful, most likely, because she got caught.

Compleate assumption and totally judgmental.
 
Just for instance, how many times have you seen cops driving at well in excess of the speed limit while not tracking a car. I've followed cops at 20+ over for many miles at times and they were just traveling somewhere but they know they can do what they want as no one stops them.
 
If I were on a jury, I'd find:

OSH rent-a-cops had bad attitudes this year.
Patty Wagstaff broke the law and behaved badly during her encounter with the OSH security (which can be mitigated somewhat by their attitudes) and continued to behave badly after more professional law enforcement arrived (for which I've seen no mitigation).

Patty deserves her OUI conviction.
The FAA should treat her no differently than any other airshow pilot convicted of OUI.
The public who looks to her as a role model should treat her according to their own convictions.


Personally? I think she's an incredible pilot. I also think she needs to better define her private space when she wants to alter her LOC. I would also advise her to not be at all defensive or rationalizing in her comments, and to make a full apology and then shut up for a few months.
 
Let's review the bidding. We have two EAA security people and more than half a dozen law enforcement officers who saw her at different times and places with a consistent story of abusive, combative, and uncooperative behavior, an open container in the vehicle, and an odor of alcohol about her, all told in sworn statements. Her described behavior is consistent with intoxication. There is material evidence in the form of vehicle tracks to support the EAA security crew's statements about her driving. I have seen no witness statements or other evidence to the contrary, either in the record or in the media, sworn or unsworn, despite the fact that several people (whom one assumes were Ms. Wagstaff's friends and thus sympathetic to her plight) were in the truck with her at the time of the driving and arrest.

Absent further evidence, what else am I to think but that she was drunk and out of control?

Sad, very sad.
 
Let's review the bidding. We have two EAA security people and more than half a dozen law enforcement officers who saw her at different times and places with a consistent story of abusive, combative, and uncooperative behavior, an open container in the vehicle, and an odor of alcohol about her, all told in sworn statements. Her described behavior is consistent with intoxication. There is material evidence in the form of vehicle tracks to support the EAA security crew's statements about her driving. I have seen no witness statements or other evidence to the contrary, either in the record or in the media, sworn or unsworn, despite the fact that several people (whom one assumes were Ms. Wagstaff's friends and thus sympathetic to her plight) were in the truck with her at the time of the driving and arrest.

Absent further evidence, what else am I to think but that she was drunk and out of control?

Sad, very sad.


+1

Yeah, I came around to the +x side.

I don't understand how one can defend her in this case.
 
+1

Yeah, I came around to the +x side.

I don't understand how one can defend her in this case.

I for one am not defending her. The facts are out and it seems she made a mistake and behaved badly. In the beinging I defender her from those who would immedatly condem her based on very little and poor information because it is not right to condem based on assumptions.

Now the onle defense I offer is that yes she made a mistake and behaved badly. Without evidence to the contrary this is her first offense. She has been punished in the courts. Give her a break. If she does it agian... well then she could be put in the same bucket as Britney Spears. Only the people who have never made a mistake have the right to condem her... and no one on earth can say they have never made a mistake.
 
If people would just shut their trap, use the word sir, and not make a scene they'd run into a lot less problems with the police. This could have probably been completely avoided with the proper attitude....

For some good tips:

Thanks, Jesse--that was great stuff. lol
 
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