What does POA think of Part 141 Instrument/Commercial Training?

texasclouds

texasclouds

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Fresh part 61 pilot thinking about 141 program to get IR and Commercial ratings. My school just added the 141 option.

Flame suit on, let me have it.
 
Ask for a copy of the curriculum and the flight hours involved. For you as a new pilot, this might be okay as long as the cost per hour is reasonable. Remember, Part 141 is a program that has an FAA approval stamp on it and very little variance from the approved program is allowed. So if the program says X hours to train you for an instrument but you are ready at 5 hours short of X (but still meet the required experience minimums), you will still need to fly off the remaining hours the curriculum requires.

When I made a similar inquiry to a local academy to get my CPL done, I was told the part 61 is a better fit for me. The logic for that answer was that the 141 curriculum included the flight time required to get the student to and beyond the 250 hour mark. My current 450 hours made that 141 curriculum not a good idea since the extra hours in that curriculum were not necessary.


Another question for the 141 school and your long term goals is in what equipment for the CPL. Since I have my eye on pro pilot and maybe the regionals, we will be doing the commercial as multi engine first and the single engine shortly there after.


Next comment about the 141 is the weekly commitment. Many schools are full time. Others are "most time", 3 maybe 4 days a week for 5 to 7 hours each training day. In either case, how are you set financially if you must focus on flight training versus your current employment?
 
I taught at both 61 and 141 schools, and I hated 141 with a passion. I could train my 61 students to proficiency, regardless of how many hours it took; in the 141 program I was locked in to how many hours could be allocated to each element/maneuver. I especially hated to teach 141 ground school because I had to skim over some things in order to complete the course on time. These were almost all GI Bill students, and dealing with the VA is a whole nuther story.

Bob Gardner
 
Unless you're a cookie cutter student, a part 141 syllabus forces you to practice what you're good at, and unless you add extra time, doesn't let you practice what you're bad at. Also some 141 schools use the rigid syllabus as an excuse to have students fly with different instructors at random.
 
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I called an old salt at my flight school and he told me about the 141. From what I remember, he said the program would allow me to reach commercial without needing 50 hrs cross country before finishing instrument and without needing the full 250 hrs to reach commercial. He said I could complete the lessons as fast or slow as my schedule and finances would allow. I asked if I took 3-4 lessons a week could I be done within a year and he said probably. He said the rigid 141 program makes jumping between CFIs easier, if needed for scheduling.

I currently have 43 hrs and am waiting for my PPL checkride to get scheduled. From what I researched online, I potentially could (in 141) earn instrument in 35 hrs and 120 hours for commercial. That would leave me with 198 hrs and a commercial ticket in my hand if I understand that correctly.

The major downside I see is that those 141 hours are required to be with an instructor or solo. No friends or family in the plane. I was hoping to burn up the skies flying with my wife/son while earning hours towards my 250 minimum (minus required dual of course).

Another thing I read said 141 training must be in the school's plane. I don't own a plane, but was considering buying one to be more readily available than scheduling a rental.

Is my major consideration between the two types going to be trying to not have to pay the extra 50 hours that 61 will require of me? I'm I understanding this correctly?
 
I did a 10 day IR 141 course back in 2012. I was a Post 9/11 bill student but I think going 141 you're going to pay more. My total bill was like $13k and the Post 9/11 bill covered 10,500 or 12,500 cant remember. Being VA it was kind of odd and what threw me for a loop was I had to pay up front for it all and then the VA reimbursed me after I was finished.

But as far as the training goes it was fine. I had one instructor assigned to me and stage checks with the chief instructor. It was hard and I doubted my decision about day 3 into it. But by day 5 and 6 it started to click. I sure enough finished in 10 days and passed a checkride. I did have my written accomplished before I showed up. So for me and my learning style 141 was just fine. I also went to another state to do this so I didn't have any distractions as I fewlt that was 10 for the fast paced. Basically show up at 8am for some ground training and then sims till lunch. After lunch it was 4 hours flying with a debrief. Then about 2 to 3 hours of homework, 10 days solid...ugh.

I know you didnt ask about the 10 days flavor but hey in 10 days you can be done. If I can do it anyone can. When I came back home I still went up a few times with my old PPL CFII and trolled around the system with him for a bit. All was good.
 
I'll get more details, but I don't think our school charges instructor/rental fees differently for 141.

Long term goal: to fly jets for Southwest.
 
For a student interested in both a commercial an instrument I believe the 141 route is the the way to go.
Just keep in mind a 141 school does not guarantee high quality instruction. Do your homework on the instructional quality provided by the school and the cost.

Depending on instructor availability and WX in your area, you should be able to complete both in 9 months if you fly 2-3 days a week.
 
141 tends to be geared towards those with GI bill benefits or are doing instruction in conjunction with some sort of degree program.
 
Part 61

I had plenty of exposure to the way Part 141 operates when I did my Commercial (which I did Part 61). The rigid structure of 141 seemed like a good way to waste time and spend more money.
 
Clip4 said:
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Depending on instructor availability and WX in your area, you should be able to complete both in 9 months if you fly 2-3 days a week.
Click to expand...

Do you mean 9 months (2-3 days a week lessons) on part 61 program?
 
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