What do you tell a nervous passenger...

Timbeck2

Timbeck2

Final Approach
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Timbeck2
who is convinced that a wing is going to fall off? I know that when I was concerned when I first started flying about structural damage I saw a picture somewhere of a Piper Cherokee with a row of people sitting on each wing and a row of people standing on the wing behind them with the caption "Piper employees demonstrating only a fraction of what the wing is designed to endure" or something along those lines. I also try to use a statistic that I found where in all the aviation accidents in small aircraft, only a very small fraction were caused by a wing falling off.

What data do you guys use to convince people especially in turbulence that the wing isn't going to fall off?
 
It depends on the passenger honestly. If they are a numbers person (like my grandfather who used to be a math/ physics teacher) I'll use all the numbers on him he wants, and even let him do some of the math.
If it's just your average Joe than I'd just explain how the plane goes through a rigorous inspection process every year. Most people don't care about numbers or statistics (especially when they're lives depend on it and they instantly think they'll be that fraction of a percent)
Or if you can find something that it relates to in their everyday life, like how hitting a pothole doesn't destroy your car.
 
"What's the worse that could happen"
 
"I'm not aware of any circumstance where a wing has fallen off a small airplane like this. Because this is a small plane, it's actually less likely because the whole plane moves with the wing rather than the winds just trying to move one or the other."

Do I know that is true? No, because I HAVE heard of wings falling off, usually due to flying into thunderstorms or design defects...the Zenith 601-A comes to mind. But telling a passenger this would tend to calm them down because you've given a good solid sounding reason why the wing isn't going to fall off. And if you're wrong, they won't be able to hate on you for very long.
 
Timbeck2 said:
who is convinced that a wing is going to fall off? I know that when I was concerned when I first started flying about structural damage I saw a picture somewhere of a Piper Cherokee with a row of people sitting on each wing and a row of people standing on the wing behind them with the caption "Piper employees demonstrating only a fraction of what the wing is designed to endure" or something along those lines. I also try to use a statistic that I found where in all the aviation accidents in small aircraft, only a very small fraction were caused by a wing falling off.

What data do you guys use to convince people especially in turbulence that the wing isn't going to fall off?
Click to expand...

Data doesn't work for irrational fears.

One thing I've used with CAP cadets is a 45 deg steep turn. "That's what 1.4 Gs feels like. The wings are rated to at least 3.8Gs."

Most people have no idea what "pulling Gs" feels like, and dramatically overestimate their accelerations. 1.4 Gs feels like "a lot," but it isn't close to the aircraft limits.
 
I tell people flying in air is like riding in a boat in water, there will be ups and downs and waves. Even though the water may get rough, think about HOW BIG a wave it would take in order to take down a cruise ship...same thing in the air...although it may be bumpy, there is not a big enough "wave" up here to take us down or damage the plane. If there were, we would not even be up here in the first place!

Most can relate to that and I get a relaxed "Ohhh...yeah" as they think about it.
 
This plane has been inspected annually by a specially trained inspector, and he says it is safe to fly. Now remember, the plane is now 45 years old and to date no wing has fallen off so the inspectors have all been correct.

Yes this doesn't work with irrational fears. My next tactic is to say: you are in control of this flight. If you like, we'll take one lap around the pattern, stop the engine and let you decide then if you want to continue or not. Or you can stay on the ground and watch us do that. Your choice, no shaming now or later. General Aviation is not for everyone.

-Skip
 
Just tell them that, just as in life, there are no guarantees in flying.
 
Or explain that based on the condition and dents in their car, personal health and diet and breeding, they are far more likley to kill themself than you are in a aircraft.
 
@Timbeck2 my wife is deathly afraid of turbulence of any kind. I didn't know how afraid she was until we were on a trip back from NC and going through a few clouds and she was literally on the verge of tears. When I saw how much it affected her I asked for lower and we just dealt with the hot temperatures and the occasional thermals for the next 30 mins to the airport. They were far less stressful then the cloud experience.

She thought the plane was going to literally fall out of the air.

I had to take the time to explain the concept of lift, what a stall is, load bearing on the wings all the technical stuff, but then just went through the concept that turbulence is the equivalent of a "cobblestone road" in the sky. The average uninformed passenger doesn't need to know all the technical stuff. If you put it into terms they understand as perhaps a driver of a car, it's a little easier for them to understand.

I think once you start talking about something falling off, people get terrified. It's the same reason I don't brief engine out emergencies with non-pilot passengers. I do the briefing to myself on isolation or just note it somewhere, but geeze..talk about unnecessary information.
 
You can tell them that in order for the plane to be certified (depending on what your flying) the wings have to be stress tested to be able to withstand a high G loading. Say that flying in turbulence is no different than driving over gravel in your car.
 
I just tell them how many people comment on the accuracy of my gauges...

I normally say that it would take so much g force to rip the plane apart that we would be knocked unconscious first. Puts some frame of reference in their mind, whether its true or not. I also let them know that if it was too bad that I don't like dying either and would land.
 
huh - with the folks I've had experience with, if they are that worried they normally don't want to ride along anyway. But if the conversations comes up I show them the red line, and tell them that's why I stay in the green.
 
Skip Miller said:
My next tactic is to say: you are in control of this flight. If you like, we'll take one lap around the pattern, stop the engine and let you decide then if you want to continue or not. Or you can stay on the ground and watch us do that. Your choice, no shaming now or later. General Aviation is not for everyone.
Click to expand...

You do clarify that when you stop the engine again, you'll be on the ground...right? :eek:;)

Seriously with irrational fears, rational answers don't work. You can't explain wing loading, G forces or aerodynamic lift in the airplane. It has to be short and simple.

Before hand, on the ground they will accept rational answers and ever agree with them. Once you start bouncing around, the irrational sets in. In addition to my semi-BS answer about the whole plane moving, I've also used an annoyed "Ohhhh...darnnit....I swallowed my gum". If that's the biggest problem I'M worried about, they shouldn't be worried about the wings.
 
Example of a bad briefing/initial start:

Thanks for joining me today on our flight from Sarasota to Key West in our Piper Cherokee. Before I start the plane up just wanted to make sure I go through a few pieces of information with you:

Seat belts: Make sure they are buckled at all times. While it probably won't matter for us two up front, it might for those of you in the back that survive a crash.

Exit door: There's one. It's on the passenger side and they have to open it and get out first for the rear passengers to exit easily. So rear passengers, if you survive a crash and we don't, well you're probably screwed anyway. Those seat belts don't seem so important now do they?

Ok, great, all set for engine start? Excellent...let me just break out the emergency procedures for an engine fire on startup, you know, just in case. Gotta be prepared.

<starts engine>

No fire this time..great!

Let get our clearance and we'll get going. <gets clearance>

Ok, so here's the route we're going to the runway, this HS area is a hotspot. It's typically a less than safe area at an airport, so be on the lookout for any other planes. Wouldn't want to crash before we take off.

<taxi to runway>

Alrightly, we're here at the runway gonna do a runup and make sure the engine doesn't blow up before we blast off. Oh and while I'm on the subject of that, in case that happens when we takeoff, we'll try to stop the plane if we have not taken off. If we have we'll set it back down if there's enough usable runway in front of us. If we've run out of usable runway we'll be landing straight ahead, which in our case will be the ocean or a golf course...FORE!

If we manage to make it to 1000+ feet and the engine fails, we'll try a turn back to the field or if that turns out to be unsafe, we'll head out to sea.

Ready to go still? Yeah? Wow..you guys are die hard...ok..let me also break out my engine fire in the air checklist, electrical failure, restart procedures, wasp in the cockpit and frequency checklist.

Tower Bugsmasher XXX ready for blast off runway XX...Yeeeeehaaaa
 
I don't like to sugarcoat things so I always say flying in a small plane is statistically as safe as riding a motorcycle. And then let them decide from there.
 
I tell them to take the bus.....

Seriously, I ask them if they really want to go. If the fear is that strong, then flying may not be what we should do today.
 
I have been lucky and haven't had any freaked-out pax but I will tell them if 'I' scream, you should prob scream too but if I'm not screaming you don't have anything to worry about. If we hit mild turbulence I'll make sure I'm talking calmly about <something>, usually the nav/com or gps or whatever, just so they can see I have no concerns about the lil bumpies.
 
Timbeck2 said:
What data do you guys use to convince people especially in turbulence that the wing isn't going to fall off?
Click to expand...

More calm reassurance than data. I encountered some light chop while taking a friend on a first GA flight the other day. "Is this normal?" "Yes, for summer." "This doesn't worry you?" "Nope." Climbed up to smoother air and had an uneventful flight.
 
I keep it short and sweet with my pax that have never flown before. Early on I felt the need to try to "convince" them that it wasn't *AS* risky as the thought it was (although there were some risks). I've gotten more casual about it and have had more relaxed pax I think.

If I perceive any reluctance or nervousness on their part I simply tell them, "There are risks associated with flying like a lot of other activities. I've trained a lot and pay close attention to everything I do. If you don't want to go then I understand and that's fine... you don't have to."

I've found that by removing 100% of the "pressure" of telling them it'll be fine and they shouldn't worry about it I've had much more comfortable pax. Let it be 100% their decision and actually lean more towards cautioning them than convincing them its safer than reality. I think the fact that I don't try to glaze over the risks involved makes people more comfortable.
 
Keep it coming guys. I didn't mention who the passenger was but its my wife.
 
If it's your wife, then I suspect that when you get this down to the nuts and bolts, the real problem will not be about the wing falling off. It's a lack of familiarity with airplanes and a lack of comfort with them. There might be a trust thing. Not so much that she doesn't trust you as she doesn't trust your judgment of your skill because SHE doesn't know how to evaluate your judgment.

You might try to be a little public about your pre-flight planning, ask her question about what she thinks the weather will do, ask her to help you with a set of eyes to preflight the airplane. Ask her to double check your basic math on fuel consumption. Break out the list of the 10 reasons pilots crash airplanes and go through that list every time you fly. compute your W&B on paper and do a Risk evaluation sheet for every flight. Show her that you're taking this seriously and exercising good judgment and she will start to believe it.
 
bflynn said:
If it's your wife, then I suspect that when you get this down to the nuts and bolts, the real problem will not be about the wing falling off. It's a lack of familiarity with airplanes and a lack of comfort with them. There might be a trust thing. Not so much that she doesn't trust you as she doesn't trust your judgment of your skill because SHE doesn't know how to evaluate your judgment.

You might try to be a little public about your pre-flight planning, ask her question about what she thinks the weather will do, ask her to help you with a set of eyes to preflight the airplane. Ask her to double check your basic math on fuel consumption. Break out the list of the 10 reasons pilots crash airplanes and go through that list every time you fly. compute your W&B on paper and do a Risk evaluation sheet for every flight. Show her that you're taking this seriously and exercising good judgment and she will start to believe it.
Click to expand...

There's a top 10 list?
 
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