What do you folks think of the new Cessna TTx
- Thread starter FloridaPilot
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Tantalum
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citizen5000
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Saw and sat in the new Acclaim Ultra at last years Reno Air Races. No thanks.
gsengle
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Gsengle
Yep you have given that .02 cents about a dozen times.
It's wider than a Bonanza, and it's long. Tall people fit well. People don't buy a Porsche and then complain it's not a caddy inside...
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It's wider than a Bonanza, and it's long. Tall people fit well. People don't buy a Porsche and then complain it's not a caddy inside...
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FloridaPilot
Pattern Altitude
For my "missions" I take the 172 if I'm alone or trying to build time, but keep current now in the Cirrus for bringing non flying folks where speed and comfort are big ticket items. I appreciate the Cirrus for what it does in that regards, makes my passengers feel safe and comfortable, and it's honestly a pretty cool plane to fly. I like how my right hand easily positions right by the fuel, flaps, throttle, mixture, GPS, etc. It's a smart layout. My left hand I have the control stick with its functions. From what I've sat in the interior layout is superior to other machines. Now, full disclosure, I haven't sat in a Mooney but just from knowing my non pilot pax they wouldn't be as comfortable in one. The Mooney has a lot of features that are cool and would appeal to me. They have a timeless "Porsche-esq" classic design and they're fast and sip fuel, and apparently built ridiculously well. So they have a lot going for it. I wish there was a club I could rent one from so I could see how my non pilot pax would fair in one
^but ultimately, I completely agree. This bounds on extortion. Don't get me wrong, these planes are CRAZY performance machines.. but they are still single engine 4 person (sorta) planes. Personally speaking if I had just won the lottery and had a cool $1.2M in cash (after paying out the taxes, my other liens, etc.) I would save half for maintenance and upkeep (so $600K) and spend the other $600K on one of these. Note, these will NOT be everyone's cup of tea, but hey it's my lotto millions so I get to spend them how I want!
https://www.controller.com/listings/aircraft/for-sale/1356425/1978-aerostar-702p
https://www.controller.com/listings/aircraft/for-sale/18417445/2001-beechcraft-58-baron
https://www.controller.com/listings/aircraft/for-sale/1453279/1984-cessna-421c
A turboprop or jet would be hard to squeeze out on that kind of budget, especially if I wanted it to be "nice." So no King Airs or TBMs... but these piston twins above are nice rides and each have something special going for it. In addition to being twins and retracts one of them is crazy fast, the other I've always seen as "king of GA twins" (the Baron), and the third just seems like it would have crazy utility. But the 421 is at the bottom of the list for a reason...
Having said that. If I had something like $2M to play with, I would still get one of the twins above but I would buy myself an SR22 for my burger runs. The SR22 would be much cheaper to operate than those twins above so wouldn't need as big of a cash reserve on it, and it would be a very fun plane for for the two person hops within 300NM.
But this has gone from somewhat potentially attainable at some point in my life to pure fantasy by that point LOL
How about some of these?
https://www.aso.com/listings/spec/V...l=True&pagingNo=1&searchId=30402990&dealerid=
https://www.aso.com/listings/spec/V...l=True&pagingNo=1&searchId=30402990&dealerid=
https://www.aso.com/listings/spec/V...l=True&pagingNo=1&searchId=30403086&dealerid=
It's only money!!
ocflyer
Pre-Flight
FYI I have flown (renting) a G6 with P+ and while it has a lot of "whiz-bang" stuff over a old school G1000, personally I really just liked the speed and resolution on the NXi. The rest I could take or leave vs. an old-school G1000. This was with a CSIP doing essentially a "differences / new stuff" review. The one thing that caught my eye particularly if you are VFR only or otherwise going into a very confusing airport (in terms of runways), was the load a visual approach for a specific runway. Nifty little thing that when I was a newbie VFR pilot would have relieved some anxiety when going into strange airports with many runways closely aligned. - Edit / Pro Tip for you G1000 people out there, you can essentially do this with setting the airport and your waypoint on the MFD and then turning on OBS mode and turning the CDI to the radial for the runway you want to determine the alignment for, it isn't perfect but it is a reasonable approximation (obviously be careful of parallel runways etc).
It may just be I'm so familiar with the G1000 that I'm not fully appreciating the NXi because I'm not mentally trained to take advantage of all the new stuff and instead still use the ipad and alot of the "old ways" of doing things, but I just don't see the "need" for it in terms of paying any significant amount of money vs. a similarly equipped G1000 bird.
The one thing I will say is the G6 interior is just amazing. I'm afraid to let my wife ride in the plane to be honest, not sure she would ride in any other non-pressurized plane after that. Must keep price sheet handy to walk her back from the edge when that day arrives
I think in the world of Cirri the early (08-09) Perspective G3s are the best bet for a Garmin and long range fuel setup without getting vaporized by depreciation.
It may just be I'm so familiar with the G1000 that I'm not fully appreciating the NXi because I'm not mentally trained to take advantage of all the new stuff and instead still use the ipad and alot of the "old ways" of doing things, but I just don't see the "need" for it in terms of paying any significant amount of money vs. a similarly equipped G1000 bird.
The one thing I will say is the G6 interior is just amazing. I'm afraid to let my wife ride in the plane to be honest, not sure she would ride in any other non-pressurized plane after that. Must keep price sheet handy to walk her back from the edge when that day arrives
I think in the world of Cirri the early (08-09) Perspective G3s are the best bet for a Garmin and long range fuel setup without getting vaporized by depreciation.
Agreed 100% with this. Though the Acclaim I sat in had the one door "feature"
The TTx felt good. It really did. But the 3rd seat in the back, higher useful, and chute won out. And I prefer how the throttle / mixture is laid out with the Cirrus. Soooo comfy.
If the SR22T didn't exist I'd be flying a TTx.
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Bro do you even lift
Tantalum
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those are pretty sick... loving that Falcon 20, wow. Can that be single piloted? I wonder how my perspective would change should that day ever come that I have over a mil in play money
**But you start to lose that GA charm, no? You wouldn't take a Falcon into Montauk, etc.
ircphoenix
En-Route
And that's why I'm sticking with a PC-12. Can fly into damn near anywhere. In styyyyyle.
FloridaPilot
Pattern Altitude
No, Falcon 10's or 20's can't be single piloted...legally.
You can have a Mil in play money. Go for it, it's possible, make it happen. Don't let the "dream stealers" steal your dream though. I remember I got on here, (POA) and asked in a previous post about the PC-12 and how I would like to take the controls for a few hours. People on here said oh you will never do that and you have to have deep pockets...etc I just went to a guy that I have seen before that has one and asked him. He took me up no questions asked and I had a ball. 0 out of pocket. So my point is you can have whatever you want as long as you are really willing and creative enough.
Tantalum
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Yup, I definitely agree. Building the dream one step at a time. Hard work alone won't get you there, it's a key part of the equation for sure, but you need also that creativity and drive as you said
That PC12 flight must have memorable!
FloridaPilot
Pattern Altitude
It's like using a GPS device, know where you are currently and set the course to where you want to go and don't look back. I actually enjoyed the conversation I had with him more, we are avid readers and we were comparing notes to the books we have read. I asked him what was the single most influential book that brought you to financial success and he said: "Think and grow Rich" I read it too but it didn't have as much of an impact. I realized he STUDIED the book over a few months and applied what he read. The PC-12 is awesome but I got more out of the conversations with him then trying to take a selfie in a PC-12.
COL4Driver
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Cessna does publish their price list on their website, at least for the TTx.
The pricing for the TTx is openly available at Cessna.com-if you go to piston, select the TTx and then select the "Build your TTx" button, you will start off with a page showing a base price of $715K, and empty weight of 2,535 lbs. From there you can add accessories like XM and FIKI and you will see the list prices and weights for each add-on.
$823K list for a comprehensively equipped airplane is correct and that is substantially less expensive than a similarly equipped SR22T, and this ignores some of the discounts Cessna has been offering if you are willing to accept an already-built configuration which is equipped with everything except the Avidyne lighting detection system (which can be added).
As far as retracts vs fixed gear is concerned, I've owned five aircraft, four of which were retracts ( couple of Mooneys, Mirage, Trinidad TC), and for the last ten years have been flying a Columbia 400. Not only is the Columbia faster than all of these other airplanes, it has also been by far the most reliable.
gsengle
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Yes the TTx is awesomely fast but it would be even faster as a retract... and just would point out that the Mooney Acclaim is a little faster
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COL4Driver
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When I was picking up my plane at the Columbia factory, I asked one of the engineers how much of a speed gain there would be if the gear were retractable.Yes the TTx is awesomely fast but it would be even faster as a retract... and just would point out that the Mooney Acclaim is a little faster
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His answer surprised me...he said that the greatest benefit would be down low, as in below 12K, where you may pick up as much as 10 knots. Up higher the drag penalty becomes relatively negligible and the improvement in performance would be minimal as in somewhere in the mid-single digits.
Because of this Columbia (and, I suspect Cirrus as well) went with fixed-gear designs, much simpler to construct and maintain.
I thought at first I would miss having retractable gear, but I don't. Unlike my prior retracts (one of which, the Trinidad TC, decided one memorable day to refuse to extend the right main gear) I do not have to worry about the gear coming down...
I'll grant you that the Acclaim is a bit faster
citizen5000
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The Acclaim says they are 242 kts max cruise at 25k. The TTx claims it's 235 kts max cruise at 25k. If you believe them the delta is a mere 7kts. But the testosterone spec of max cruise is noise of course. The sales numbers prove it. The TTx selling about 30 planes a year. The Acclaim about 5 planes a year.
gsengle
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You just copy and paste, right?
No, a higher top speed given the same power plant means lower drag, which means more efficiency at any speed.
More efficiency means less fuel needed thus higher effective load, or greater range, take your pick.
Sure the gear isn't a huge impact. But it is an impact. And in my humble opinion, detracts from the coolness of a pretty cool airplane... you decide for yourself if you care.
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MetalCloud
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So many broken records on this forum. On every side. It gets old.
gsengle
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If misinformation wasn't being given out I'd be inclined to hold my tongue!
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COL4Driver
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I think that everybody realizes those are best-case numbers which are rarely seen in the real world, particularly if one wants to have any reasonable engine longevity.
In my 400, I flight plan 200 knots TAS @ FL160, burning 16 GPH 75 degrees LOP. This is approximately 70% power. Increase that by 2 knots per 1,000 feet, so routinely see 210-215 knots at same power setting/fuel consumption in low Flight Levels. Highest groundspeed I have see thus far in level flight was 302 Knots @ FL230, I had a nearly 100 knot tailwind component.
Not bad for fixed gear
paflyer
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You can buy a used TP for that kind of bread.
dennyleeb
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7DeltaBravo
It does not matter what you can afford to buy. It matters what you can afford to buy, maintain and insure
paflyer
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If you can afford a 900k single you can probably afford a well-used turbine.
citizen5000
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Did you use your $900k to get a used turboprop? About 120 Cirrus SR22T and about 30 TTx customers each year decide to go the other way.
gsengle
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Against how many hundreds of used twins and single turboprops and VLJs? Those 150 people may well be a small minority against the used market...
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COL4Driver
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Not necessarily.
You may be able to afford the purchase price (heck, you can buy a used MiG-15 for what, under $100K?), but remember that you are maintaining an airplane which, if you purchased new, would cost a heck of a lot more and you are going to be maintaining it as if it were a Multi Million dollar airplane, not the $800K you may have paid for it.
Plus you are talking about older airframes which need more expensive TLC.....have you looked at what certain turbine parts cost? Little things, like $30-70K windshields?
The primary reason I stepped down from the Mirage to the 400 was because of the expense of maintaining a very complex pressurized piston aircraft. It was a lesson I learned the hard way. I was averaging $30K/year to maintain the Mirage with no end in sight, and being told by other owners that this was "normal". And this was on a 3-year old airplane! I shudder to think what it would cost to keep a 10-15 year old used turboprop in the air.
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paflyer
Final Approach
Come on, a TTX has nowhere the same utility as a Mirage, or a turbine. If you have the resources to support a near million purchase, 30K a year is peanuts, and it's probably a business write-off anyway. Going in, you should have known what a pressurized AC was going to cost in maintenance. For 30K you could probably cover a MU2. Mirage is kind of a poor example since it's packing 50# of crap in a 25# bag.
denverpilot
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You'd prefer we flip-flop like a politician running for office? ;-)
Not seeing the problem with people maintaining their opinions unless there's something important they missed.
When it comes to million dollar singles, there's not much to miss where it counts: Most of us aren't buying them and it doesn't make much financial sense for a majority of folks.
MetalCloud
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Not saying it's a problem maintaining opinions. Just saying that I'm to the point where it's totally predictable what's certain people will post, and that part gets old.
You're right... there isn't much to be missed at these levels. It's just personal opinions and preferences. Just get tired of getting those same points hammered home every single time. But I guess it's my choice to read it. Lol
denverpilot
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Either we need more people or we need different topics.
mIt's probably time for a new "can I log it?" thread. LOL!
Or we need to see if Sac has had any good cole slaw this week...
COL4Driver
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I agree that the TTx or SR-22 does not have the same utility as a Mirage or turbine, but I hope that all will agree that this increased utility comes at a price. Maintenance is only one of the costs associated with aircraft ownership; as one moves up the complexity chain other factors come into play including needing a bigger hanger (can't fit those 43' Mirage wings into the typical T-hanger!), insurance, hourly fuel burn, etc.
What I found particularly frustrating was that the increased "Utility" of having a pressurized AC was more than offset by the decreased reliability-I typically fly between 200-300 hours per year and the Mirage made this difficult-the darn thing was down for one issue or another far more than any other less sophisticated plane I have ever owned, and there is a "cost" to that as well. It finally reached the point that flying the darn thing was no longer fun; I would go on a long trip with everything working well, thinking how much fun this all was only to be confronted sooner than later with one failure or another-alternators, vacuum pumps, boots that wouldn't inflate, aux heat inop, the list went on and on and on. And going in, no I did not have an appreciation for what it would cost to maintain a pressurized AC, my bad, but I learned very quickly and very painfully and after 3 1/2 years of banging my head against the wall decided to pull the plug.
I miss having pressurization and weather radar. I do not miss the costs associated with having these goodies. The TTx lets me accomplish about 80-90% of the flights I could do in the Mirage and the operating cost difference between the two is enough that if the weather is bad enough to not fly the TTx I can buy lots of airline tickets. I actually think I got off rather easy, I know people who spend far more each year keeping their Mirages/Meridians in the air.
ircphoenix
En-Route
Wait... are you talking about your Mirage or my Cherokee? Sounds the same.
gsengle
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Except I only see you complain when you don't like the opinion...
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Checkout_my_Six
Touchdown! Greaser!
The only reason I have this old 200 mph Bonanza is cause I can't afford a TBM or PC12.Either we need more people or we need different topics.
It's probably time for a new "can I log it?" thread. LOL!
Or we need to see if Sac has had any good cole slaw this week...
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MetalCloud
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I don't give a **** about your opinion
gsengle
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Could have fooled me for how much you obsess about it.
How about we talk facts. Like refute ones I state when I'm incorrect. That's mature useful conversation. Seriously.
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MetalCloud
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Oh god more "facts"
Ignore list updated again. For good this time. Frequency change approved. See ya!