What airplane would you use? (Trip planning)

FloridaPilot

FloridaPilot

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What plane would you use to fly from KPIE (Saint Petersburg FL) to KHPN (Westchester County New York). It has to be a Single Engine Piston or a Twin and you have two days. Four Passengers, (Including the Pilot). Pilot weighs 250, Passenger #2 weighs 180 Passenger #3 Weighs 160 and Passenger #4 Weighs 175. Plane has to be priced under 400k.

How would you start planning?

Where would you stop first?


As always thanks for your input!
 
Since we aren't talking about operating costs, a 421C is perfect for the job! Tons of them under $400K, get a really good 421B and have $200k+ leftover to operate it. :D

FloridaPilot said:
What plane would you use to fly from KPIE (Saint Petersburg FL) to KHPN (Westchester County New York). It has to be a Single Engine Piston or a Twin and you have two days. Four Passengers, (Including the Pilot). Pilot weighs 250, Passenger #2 weighs 180 Passenger #3 Weighs 160 and Passenger #4 Weighs 175. Plane has to be priced under 400k.

How would you start planning?

Where would you stop first?


As always thanks for your input!
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With 400k? You could get nearly anything in the single engine category, if you don't have to have something brand new.

Beech 36 series would do the job. You could likely get a turbo version with that kind of budget an fly over 200 mph.

A turbo Piper Saratoga or Lance would do the job nicely, and you would have a couple hundred thousand left over for gas.

However, if you don't mind flying something a little older, you could go cabin class twin if you wanted to.

Were it me, I'd put the wife and kids on Delta and fly my L39 :yes:
 
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What would I use with that budget available? Probably a cabin-class piston twin like John suggested -- 400-series Cessna, Piper PA-31-series, something like that.

But I'm a 10,000-hour ATP with thousands of hours in piston twins, not a Student Pilot like you. If I were you, I'd start my planning by figuring out how to get my Private certificate and my Instrument and Multiengine ratings, and my first stop would be a good flight training provider.
 
Aerostar 601P with Machen conv.
 
N747JB said:
Since we aren't talking about operating costs, a 421C is perfect for the job! Tons of them under $400K, get a really good 421B and have $200k+ leftover to operate it. :D
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Where would your first Fuel stop be? Or would you go straight because you have the range?
 
OkieFlyer said:
With 400k? You could get nearly anything in the single engine category, if you don't have to have something brand new.

Beech 36 series would do the job. You could likely get a turbo version with that kind of budget an fly over 200 mph.

A turbo Piper Saratoga or Lance would do the job nicely, and you would have a couple hundred thousand left over for gas.

However, if you don't mind flying something a little older, you could go cabin class twin if you wanted to.

Were it me, I'd put the wife and kids on Delta and fly my L39 :yes:
Click to expand...

L39 are sweet planes, There is a guy that owns one in Saint Pete and takes people up. I should go one of these days!
 
+1 for the Aerostar.

I want one so bad my teeth hurt...

But I don't think I want pressure. The non-pressurized would suit my flying 90% of the time.
 
Ron Levy said:
What would I use with that budget available? Probably a cabin-class piston twin like John suggested -- 400-series Cessna, Piper PA-31-series, something like that.

But I'm a 10,000-hour ATP with thousands of hours in piston twins, not a Student Pilot like you. If I were you, I'd start my planning by figuring out how to get my Private certificate and my Instrument and Multiengine ratings, and my first stop would be a good flight training provider.
Click to expand...

Best answer yet.
 
OkieFlyer said:
With 400k? You could get nearly anything in the single engine category, if you don't have to have something brand new.

Beech 36 series would do the job. You could likely get a turbo version with that kind of budget an fly over 200 mph.

A turbo Piper Saratoga or Lance would do the job nicely, and you would have a couple hundred thousand left over for gas.

However, if you don't mind flying something a little older, you could go cabin class twin if you wanted to.

Were it me, I'd put the wife and kids on Delta and fly my L39 :yes:
Click to expand...

The useful load on a Beech is around 1,403. How much does full fuel weigh on that airplane?
 
Ron Levy said:
What would I use with that budget available? Probably a cabin-class piston twin like John suggested -- 400-series Cessna, Piper PA-31-series, something like that.

But I'm a 10,000-hour ATP with thousands of hours in piston twins, not a Student Pilot like you. If I were you, I'd start my planning by figuring out how to get my Private certificate and my Instrument and Multiengine ratings, and my first stop would be a good flight training provider.
Click to expand...

Already working on that, it takes time. But the reason why I want to fly is because I can go to places like that. That is what keeps me going and it will keep me going when the training gets tough. (Nothing good never comes easy).
 
Like someone else said, I like the idea of a Piper Saratoga TC. For me, if I had $400,000, I would look at a Malibu/Mirage. (But I have a lot of pressurized, high-performance aircraft time.) For a relatively new/low time pilot, perhaps look at a Cherokee Six or fixed gear Saratoga?
 
txflyer said:
+1 for the Aerostar.

I want one so bad my teeth hurt...

But I don't think I want pressure. The non-pressurized would suit my flying 90% of the time.
Click to expand...

The OP is going 900NM with a plane full of meatsacks. The "P" is what sets it apart from the rest. Machen conv gives pressure diff with the bigger turbos that you can go up in the mid 20s' and feel comfy four hours. Otherwise, make them suck on the bottle? Uh -- no.

http://www.airplanemart.com/aircraf...Piston/1982-Aerostar-602P-Superstar-700/8647/

602P, but it'll do.
 
Lance or Saratoga for Piper. C-210 or C-206. Multi, I'd go with a turbo Seneca II or III.
 
Ron Levy said:
What would I use with that budget available? Probably a cabin-class piston twin like John suggested -- 400-series Cessna, Piper PA-31-series, something like that.

But I'm a 10,000-hour ATP with thousands of hours in piston twins, not a Student Pilot like you. If I were you, I'd start my planning by figuring out how to get my Private certificate and my Instrument and Multiengine ratings, and my first stop would be a good flight training provider.
Click to expand...

quit being practical. :lol:
 
FloridaPilot said:
The useful load on a Beech is around 1,403. How much does full fuel weigh on that airplane?
Click to expand...

Stock fuel is 74 gal, or 444 lb. Full fuel and 4 aboard should leave you a little room for baggage.

Turbo Lance carries another hundred pounds, but is 15 kt. slower. 175 kt cruise.
 
Turbo Saratoga would work fine,might even try a Cessna 206. Until you get some hours I'd keep it simple. First stop would be myrtle beach then a stop at ocean city Maryland then home.
 
FloridaPilot said:
What plane would you use to fly from KPIE (Saint Petersburg FL) to KHPN (Westchester County New York). It has to be a Single Engine Piston or a Twin and you have two days. Four Passengers, (Including the Pilot). Pilot weighs 250, Passenger #2 weighs 180 Passenger #3 Weighs 160 and Passenger #4 Weighs 175. Plane has to be priced under 400k.

How would you start planning?

Where would you stop first?


As always thanks for your input!
Click to expand...

I'd take my 310 and be there in 5-6 hours depending on wind and if I have to stop for fuel. Where I would stop if I wanted to overnight would depend on what was going on and who I wanted to see, but Charleston SC is always pretty good.
 
FloridaPilot said:
Already working on that, it takes time. But the reason why I want to fly is because I can go to places like that. That is what keeps me going and it will keep me going when the training gets tough. (Nothing good never comes easy).
Click to expand...
Well, keep the dream going, but stay focused enough on the first step (completing your PP-ASEL) that you get to the point where you can take the next, because you are a very long way from being able to fly the sorts of planes under discussion.
 
Ron Levy said:
Well, keep the dream going, but stay focused enough on the first step (completing your PP-ASEL) that you get to the point where you can take the next, because you are a very long way from being able to fly the sorts of planes under discussion.
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Ron,

I just take one step at a time but always keep the end goal in mind. The purpose of this tread wasn't because I just wanted to "Dream" it was because I wanted to learn how the veterans think. That is more valuable than I can read in ANY book. How would they plan a trip like that? Would they take a fuel stop, if so where? How fast would they want to get there...so many different variables. I like the Cessna 206 and that is a plane I would take not because it's the fastest and nicest looking plane but because it would be something closer to my experience level and it's not a bad looking airplane either with a cruise of 142 knots and a useful load of 1,424. I can go from Saint Pete airport and stop for fuel at Wilmington NC (KILM) in approx. 3 hours. If I'm too sleepy I will stay the night and then fly from KILM to KHPN for another 3 hours. Of course weather permitting.
 
FloridaPilot said:
Ron,

I just take one step at a time but always keep the end goal in mind. The purpose of this tread wasn't because I just wanted to "Dream" it was because I wanted to learn how the veterans think. That is more valuable than I can read in ANY book. How would they plan a trip like that? Would they take a fuel stop, if so where? How fast would they want to get there...so many different variables. I like the Cessna 206 and that is a plane I would take not because it's the fastest and nicest looking plane but because it would be something closer to my experience level and it's not a bad looking airplane either with a cruise of 142 knots and a useful load of 1,424. I can go from Saint Pete airport and stop for fuel at Wilmington NC (KILM) in approx. 3 hours. If I'm too sleepy I will stay the night and then fly from KILM to KHPN for another 3 hours. Of course weather permitting.
Click to expand...

I'm a low time pilot myself, so certainly not a veteran, but I don't see a problem with your thinking. The big twins would be too much for a low time guy, but I don't see why a 206, Beech 36, or a Lance/Saratoga would be a problem, provided you get plenty of dual and spend plenty of time getting to know the plane before taking the family across the country. A friend of mine had a Beech G36 as his first plane with great success. I've known several guys who started with high performance fixed gear planes, and a few retracts. Get 'er done, just don't bite off more than you can chew.
 
Have done the trip up and down the coast several times.there are plenty of places to stop to let the weather go by. Just keep working towards your goal.
 
As one who has spent long hours in a sardine can single, I would vote with Ron on a cabin class twin. Room to stretch that you won't find in most singles.

Unless you bladder like punishment, plan a fuel (de-fuel) stop.
 
Commander anyone? I think one could get a cherry 685 for a couple hundred Gs, maybe less. Then he could learn to fly it like Bob Hoover after a few years, or 50 ;)
 
DC-3 can be had for less than 400K just sayin'
 
Jimmy cooper said:
Yes. In a machen superstar with your low time it would probably be your last flight.
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Why don't you take your judgmental, I'm better than you, no one can fly like me attitude and get bent.

Nice way to show a new guy the welcome he deserves. Asshat.
 
docmirror said:
Why don't you take your judgmental, I'm better than you, no one can fly like me attitude and get bent.

Nice way to show a new guy the welcome he deserves. Asshat.
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There is NO WAY I would get in a plane that I couldn't handle and try to fly it. Take offs are optional, Landings are mandatory!!
 
docmirror said:
The OP is going 900NM with a plane full of meatsacks. The "P" is what sets it apart from the rest. Machen conv gives pressure diff with the bigger turbos that you can go up in the mid 20s' and feel comfy four hours. Otherwise, make them suck on the bottle? Uh -- no.

http://www.airplanemart.com/aircraf...Piston/1982-Aerostar-602P-Superstar-700/8647/

602P, but it'll do.
Click to expand...



No bottle, just scudrun for me. Main thing is speed, A/C, and a potty.

Definitely if I had my IFR and more time I would want it all. I would have to train up quite a bit to even a non-pressurized....

I know that not getting up into the FL's is not taking full advantage of the speed and capability, but I've also read the pressurized adds significant cost, complexity, and $$$$ to inspections/maintenance/insurance etc. .... :dunno:
 
A Cherokee 6, Lance or Saratoga.

Far under the budget, so I could actually make the trip.
 
txflyer said:
No bottle, just scudrun for me. Main thing is speed, A/C, and a potty.

Definitely if I had my IFR and more time I would want it all. I would have to train up quite a bit to even a non-pressurized....

I know that not getting up into the FL's is not taking full advantage of the speed and capability, but I've also read the pressurized adds significant cost, complexity, and $$$$ to inspections/maintenance/insurance etc. .... :dunno:
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This is true. The 'entry' level Aerostar is the NA version with no turbos and no pressure. I talked with a seller in Houston area last week, and he's got one for under $100k that is in decent shape. I was ready to grab it up but I found the cost of putting AC in to be about $16k, and it needs a new auto pilot, so there's another $10k-ish. Started to get into real money then.
 
docmirror said:
This is true. The 'entry' level Aerostar is the NA version with no turbos and no pressure. I talked with a seller in Houston area last week, and he's got one for under $100k that is in decent shape. I was ready to grab it up but I found the cost of putting AC in to be about $16k, and it needs a new auto pilot, so there's another $10k-ish. Started to get into real money then.
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Here's one in VA, with new avionics (Aspen/synthetic) it looks like a good deal .... :dunno:

http://www.trade-a-plane.com/detail/aircraft/Multi+Engine+Piston/1975/Aerostar/600/1724995.html

I know a buddy who put Arctic Air's permanent unit in his Baron, and he's happy with it. I think it cost him about 5 grand....
 
txflyer said:
Here's one in VA, with new avionics (Aspen/synthetic) it looks like a good deal .... :dunno:

http://www.trade-a-plane.com/detail/aircraft/Multi+Engine+Piston/1975/Aerostar/600/1724995.html

I know a buddy who put Arctic Air's permanent unit in his Baron, and he's happy with it. I think it cost him about 5 grand....
Click to expand...

Very nice. Engine are kinda high time, but you do get a lot of panel for your money there. It needs some of the Machen exh bits, but maybe there's room in the price to have that done. Also needs the revised scissor bushings for the main gear. I could live with it.
 
docmirror said:
Very nice. Engine are kinda high time, but you do get a lot of panel for your money there. It needs some of the Machen exh bits, but maybe there's room in the price to have that done. Also needs the revised scissor bushings for the main gear. I could live with it.
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Oops. I didn't read the engine time right. I don't know what the TBO is on them. But that's arbitrary anyway.

He's advertising 200knots TAS. I thought these planes were considerably faster than that .... :confused:

I have my STOL puddle jumper. I want something cabin class, with A/C and a head, and fast as possible without going to turbine.
 
A Malibu would do the job. A PA46-310P model would fit into the price range.
 
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