Weather on the ACS check ride/Oral

[jbrinker]

I spent about a hour+ of my 3 hour study time last night just doing weather again. Reading the ACS and the AIM weather stuff, as well as other sources.

Question is - how deep and in what ways do examiners dig into this? I mean, here's my thoughts:

- I'm a pilot, not a meteorologist. Yes, reading a METAR, TAF, SIGMET/AIRMET etc. should be basically second nature. Looking at the prognositc charts, etc should be used as a tool. BUT - If I'm going somewhere out of my local area, I AM calling for a weather briefing. And those guys really know their stuff.
- I'm also a student, and even as a low-time pilot, my minimums are going to be conservative. If things don't look pretty dang good, I won't be going. Same for a trip someplace, if we get there and two days later when it's time to leave and the weather doesn't look good, we are waiting/scrubbing until it does.

So, basically I feel like I need to know what pieces of information are available. What do they represent, and how to read them. But how much judgement are they looking for beyond that - because again frankly I'm calling FSS and talking to a briefer.

Final question/thought - decoding. I've done so much practice and used actual coded weather for all my XCs lately that I'm getting pretty good at decoding. I can even see that once you "speak the language" it's quite quicker. But there are so many (even official) sources of decoded weather now - do they still expect and REQUIRE decoding of 1955 era teletype METAR stuff? Honestly why? I can get the weather on my ipad, computer, FSS on the phone, all decoded. It seems possibly mistake prone to demand the old way (sort of like the mechanical e6b, it has advantages in some ways, but there are so many other alternatives).

 

[jordane93]

I was expected to know some weather charts like prog charts and radar. The stuff is pretty easy to understand and decipher. They are not looking for a meteorologist analysis. For example, If you see a cold front and a low pressure system, what kind of weather can you expect. If you see a high pressure system, what kind of weather can you expect? I'm not sure if you'll be expected to decode a METAR/TAF. It's that way because it is that way. Cooperate and graduate then use decoded weather if you want.

 

[citizen5000]

Are you talking about Private Pilot? If so, they expect you to know what weather information is available to pilots and to know what type of information you expect to find in each of them. Example. What is the difference between an AIRMET and a SIGMET. What information is in the FA (Area Forecast). What is the difference between AWOS/ASOS and ATIS? What are the types of briefings you can get from an NWS briefer?

You will not be asked to decode a METAR or TAF for PPL.

 

[Vance Breese]

In my experience it depends on the examiner.

The last DPE I had would have failed me if I didn’t get a weather briefing before flying and he had me explain how the weather would affect my flight plan.

For him it is not just about the weather. It is also about NOTAMs and TFRs.

Good luck on your practical test!

It reads to me like you are well prepared.

 

[Shawn]

Weather was one of my perceived weak points heading into my PPL oral with the same concerns as you.

I was over thinking it. My DPE was just looking for enough knowledge base on how and where to find the weather info and your ability to make sound go/no go decision off the available info...not to provide a detailed meteorological forecast dissecting the data of every chart.

 

[AggieMike88]

In the Scenario based exam's, I was expected to review with him how I would self-brief for the flight plan he assigned me and how I would use that information for a go or no go decision. And during my IFR, what I would be looking at to decide if an Alternate Destination was advisable and legal/prudent to use.

For my IFR, I was one of the first applicant for the DPE to be using FF's (then new) graphical weather briefing. So I walked him through that, then explained that I could also use www.800wxbrief.com. And when he asked about icing, I was able to show him how to get that in FF and on aviationweather.gov

In a nutshell, you need to know where to find key information, and then how to interpret that product you're looking at.

Also, know the limitations of the product. Examples: When is that particular weather chart or product valid? While you might the review TAFs for your flight route, how much area does that forecast really cover? When you look at the Area Forecast, what is the difference between "synopsis" and "outlook"?

 

[denverpilot]

Other than the above, (know the products, know how to get them, know generally what types of weather a cold/warm front cause, know how to read the products)... the only other DPE pet peeve I've seen is they sometimes ask how often each product is refreshed (not how long they're valid for, necessarily). It's a "reasonable" question, but even today, sometimes I have to go look it up for some of the products. Knowing when stuff will refresh comes in handy on squirrelly days, "there's another forecast update out in 20 minutes, let's wait and look at that"...

And the trick question they like to ask...

"How often is the ATIS weather updated?"

Everyone goes for "every hour"... so they sit there and say, "And...?"

 

[jbrinker]

Yes this is for PPL. Alright, this is somewhat of a relief. Actually read the AIM and some of the study guides, it reads like a meteorologist degree is expected. At any rate, I think I'm pretty solid on the "what products are available, what do the represent, and how can you use them" stuff, in addition to an actual briefing of course. I will study what the validity/refresh of the various products are as well. Oh, "and... when necessary due to a significant change" (my wording, you get the idea).

 

[murphey]

Other than the above, (know the products, know how to get them, know generally what types of weather a cold/warm front cause, know how to read the products)... the only other DPE pet peeve I've seen is they sometimes ask how often each product is refreshed (not how long they're valid for, necessarily). It's a "reasonable" question, but even today, sometimes I have to go look it up for some of the products. Knowing when stuff will refresh comes in handy on squirrelly days, "there's another forecast update out in 20 minutes, let's wait and look at that"...

And the trick question they like to ask...

"How often is the ATIS weather updated?"

Everyone goes for "every hour"... so they sit there and say, "And...?"

Anytime weather report is received.

 

[denverpilot]

Anytime weather report is received.

And how often are they received from the official observer?

What happens if there's no official observer?

Ahh, this crap is fun. BTW if the above is scaring anyone, the DPE is just messing with you at this point if you get to this question. Ha. They like to see you scratch your head a little sometimes.

 

[murphey]

And how often are they received from the official observer?

What happens if there's no official observer?

Ahh, this crap is fun. BTW if the above is scaring anyone, the DPE is just messing with you at this point if you get to this question. Ha. They like to see you scratch your head a little sometimes.

Don't worry....There's always a webcam pointed at the chain link wind sock

 

[Harold Rutila]

Reading a METAR is a pretty fundamental skill. They're not asking you to analyze the weather or develop one. That's a skill reserved to weather observers and meteorologists and is considerably more difficult.

The AC called Aviation Weather Services has recently been updated and contains a lot of great information about METARs. This AC is a reference in the ACS and it would therefore not be considered taboo for a DPE (or an instructor for that matter) to expect a student to have a reasonable understanding of it.

 

[citizen5000]

Reading a METAR is a pretty fundamental skill.

You won't be asked to translate a METAR beyond the portion before RMKS. Know how to read zulu time, temp/altimeter and winds. But you may not see a question on it at all. They want you to be able to get enough information from weather resources to know when not to go up (beyond your personal limits).

 

[Harold Rutila]

You won't be asked to translate a METAR beyond the portion before RMKS. Know how to read zulu time, temp/altimeter and winds. But you may not see a question on it at all. They want you to be able to get enough information from weather resources to know when not to go up (beyond your personal limits).

Agreed. The cloud height portion of the METAR is also where a discussion about ceilings can come up.

 

[AggieMike88]

And how often are they received from the official observer?

What happens if there's no official observer?

Ahh, this crap is fun. BTW if the above is scaring anyone, the DPE is just messing with you at this point if you get to this question. Ha. They like to see you scratch your head a little sometimes.

Weren't you telling the story of Tower recording an update and naming it Bravo.2?

 

[AggieMike88]

If you are a ForeFlight user, you can also demonstrate how the weather info in the Airports tab can be useful. I have really enjoyed the addition of the MOS (model output statistics), Area Forecast Discussion, and Winds Aloft for the airport. Makes getting that extra bit of detail much simpler.

And drifting the thread a bit... if you do start using an EFB to demonstrate various knowledge items, know the EFB back to front and what your doing. Then be prepared to have the boundary pushed a bit. Also be ready to answer the question if the examiner asks, "so how would you obtain the information and didn't have your tablet or smartphone with you?"

 

[denverpilot]

Weren't you telling the story of Tower recording an update and naming it Bravo.2?

Nope. Wasn't me.

If you are a ForeFlight user, you can also demonstrate how the weather info in the Airports tab can be useful. I have really enjoyed the addition of the MOS (model output statistics), Area Forecast Discussion, and Winds Aloft for the airport. Makes getting that extra bit of detail much simpler.

And drifting the thread a bit... if you do start using an EFB to demonstrate various knowledge items, know the EFB back to front and what your doing. Then be prepared to have the boundary pushed a bit. Also be ready to answer the question if the examiner asks, "so how would you obtain the information and didn't have your tablet or smartphone with you?"

I don't think that's drift at all. Right in the lane of what the OP was asking for.

As far as MOS goes, I think it's neat that Scott helped get some of that stuff into ForeFlight. Tracking MOS myself since it's only "supplementary" data, and I wanted to know how good it is... it appears to be really close and sometimes slightly better than the official forecasts out here in the flat.

It seems regularly and utterly confused about mountain weather.

Watch it carefully for a while in your local area and see how it does before trusting it too much.

 

[luvflyin]

I dunno, it's been a looong time. In addition to all the above, a couple of things I would think of are the differences between ASOS and all the AWOS's. What small temperature/dew point spreads mean.

 

[danhagan]

I spent about a hour+ of my 3 hour study time last night just doing weather again. Reading the ACS and the AIM weather stuff, as well as other sources.

Question is - how deep and in what ways do examiners dig into this? I mean, here's my thoughts:

They want you to know the main things that'll kill you and common sense items. MY PPL occurred shortly after a non-local pilot departed a fly-in at our field, straight into the only cell in the area off the departure end of the runway, that drove them into the ground killing him and his passenger. It literally was a single strong rain shaft with clear everywhere else. If he had turned after rotation instead of flying the full length of the runway *OR* waited 10 minutes they'd still be alive.

 

[Rykymus]

I agree with others about what the examiners want to see. What I don't agree with is relying on a weather briefer. I'd much rather do the research and develop my on opinions. After all, it's my (and my passengers) ass(s) up there. And if I have a doubt about the weather, I just don't go. I've already had enough weather-related close-calls (two of them, to be precise) to last a lifetime.

Personally, after my PPL, I felt very lacking in the meteorology department. Spent a lot of time studying on my own to understand it better. Also spent a lot of time on FF, looking at forecasts and MOS for not only my areas, but areas that I regularly fly through/to, checking the forecasts against the actual weather. Learned quite a bit that way, but still have a LOT to learn.

 

[AggieMike88]

Personally, after my PPL, I felt very lacking in the meteorology department

Not an uncommon thing. Weather is an area of PPL I wish is emphasized more than "just enough to pass the exams".

Even in the IFR rating, the deeper knowledge to make a good decision to fly or not is scantily taught.

 

[AU_James]

A few months ago my DPE had me decode a METAR and a TAF for our planned XC destination (scenario-based testing). I expect that if you struggle at all then you may get more questions about it.

Then we talked about sources for pre-flight weather planning (looking at weather.com days in advance, prog charts, calling, ForeFlight, etc) and how you would use them for the planned trip. The most complicated weather questions I got was while looking at couple maps I was asked "what are these lines?" (isobars) and "what does it mean when they're close together or far apart?" "What kind of weather would you expect near a Low pressure system? What kind of front is this?" (cold/warm/stationary/occluded).

As with anything during the exam, if you come across confident then you probably won't get more questions on the topic. Just tell your examiner what you mentioned in your first post- if the weather was forecast to do something you don't like that you will wait. The ACS is designed to be scenario-based so tell the examiner what you would actually do if you were really making the XC rather than just planning for it for the exam.

You'll do great! (go study something else)

 

[denverpilot]

They want you to know the main things that'll kill you and common sense items. MY PPL occurred shortly after a non-local pilot departed a fly-in at our field, straight into the only cell in the area off the departure end of the runway, that drove them into the ground killing him and his passenger. It literally was a single strong rain shaft with clear everywhere else. If he had turned after rotation instead of flying the full length of the runway *OR* waited 10 minutes they'd still be alive.

If there's one thing that accidents prove, it's that common sense, isn't always that common.

 

[danhagan]

I agree with others about what the examiners want to see. What I don't agree with is relying on a weather briefer. I'd much rather do the research and develop my on opinions.

I hear you ... have had a few trips that briefed weather and actual did not align. I try to check weather forecast on days I'm not flying and compared to actual metars and weather as they would be when I'm enroute ... quite an eye opener sometimes