"We don't serve your type"

Everskyward said:
How would the salesman have any standing in a lawsuit? If I said something similar to a customer I would expect to be fired immediately, and rightly so. But then Colorado is an employment at will state. I wonder if Florida is.
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The salesman has standing since he was unjustly terminated, it was the manager that terminated the deal.
 
I would think Nissan would have issues with dealers refusing to sell a vehicle to someone. After all I am sure it is all about the bottom line not someone's life style.
 
Ken Ibold said:
A guy my wife knows ordered a new car from an Infiniti dealership. It arrived, and he went to go pick it up. The salesman showed him the car, and they sat down to do paperwork. The general manager walked in and said, "we don't do business with fags" and refused to sell him the car. The salesman walked out. The GM threatened to fine the salesman $1000 for ordering a car that couldn't be delivered. The salesman has been fired.
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I have problems with this story.... I've been involved in the car business since I've been 8, nobody in the car business I have ever met gives a rat's a$$ about your sexual orientation, especially not someone who has made it to the GM. The only thing they care about is numbers. If you're a viable sale, you get sold a car.

Let me introduce an alternate theory as to how this story came about:

Your wife's associate had ordered the car, told people at work about the nice new car he ordered and was taking delivery of. When it was time to close on the deal and take delivery, he couldn't come through with the financing so to save himself the embarrassment of saying "I couldn't get the car because I have no money and a credit score of 580", he tells people about the dealership being discriminatory against gays.
 
Henning said:
I have problems with this story.... I've been involved in the car business since I've been 8, nobody in the car business I have ever met gives a rat's a$$ about your sexual orientation, especially not someone who has made it to the GM. The only thing they care about is numbers. If you're a viable sale, you get sold a car.

Let me introduce an alternate theory as to how this story came about:

Your wife's associate had ordered the car, told people at work about the nice new car he ordered and was taking delivery of. When it was time to close on the deal and take delivery, he couldn't come through with the financing so to save himself the embarrassment of saying "I couldn't get the car because I have no money and a credit score of 580", he tells people about the dealership being discriminatory against gays.
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WINNER, WINNER... Chicken Dinner..:fcross::fcross:

I would say fried chicken dinner but someone might call me racist.:D:D
 
Hmm... sexual orientation is not a "protected" status (in most places).
Not seeing this as any different from the un-named restaurant that is allegedly refusing to serve TSA officers.

(Also not saying whether I think this is right/wrong, good/bad or whether sexual orientation [protected or not] is any different from employment as a TSA officer.)
 
Without knowing the facts of the case other than those related here, I gotta say Henning makes a good point. Car dealers would do a deal with Satan if it helped meet monthly quota.

That being said, there are still plenty of dip****s out there playing the racist/homophobe card. I have friends who weren't served in a Denny's for hours. Yes, they were black. GACK -- they had white wimmin wit dem, which is probably what caused the problem. Notwithstanding that one of the blacks was gay, and none of them was involved with the wimmin. Wouldn't you know, this happened in the South.
 
Seriously....SERIOUSLY

http://www.lawyersandsettlements.co...yment-at-will-whats-the-difference-01710.html

Please read that, and then revisit the topic of rightness.

Now, if Alabama is an "At-Will Employment" state, then you are right. If its a "Right to Work" state, this is non-germane. I admit, until this morning, I didn't know about the union aspect, but here's the easy one:

At Will - You can be hired or fired without cause (but not for certain causes)
Right to Work - People have a right to be employed, and therefore, denying that right requires cause (quite different from at will).

That is all.
 
JoeSelch said:
Hmm... sexual orientation is not a "protected" status (in most places).
Not seeing this as any different from the un-named restaurant that is allegedly refusing to serve TSA officers.

(Also not saying whether I think this is right/wrong, good/bad or whether sexual orientation [protected or not] is any different from employment as a TSA officer.)
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It is in Alabama.

But regardless, this is wrong on many levels, not the least of which is economics: I don't care if you're a convicted murderer, if you're about to pay me a **** ton of money to buy car from me, I can STFU and take your money.
 
Ken Ibold said:
I can appreciate this notion. I have known several "millitant" members of various protected classes who are more than willing to play this card. However, the guy in question is very soft spoken, very quiet. He ain't raised no rabble.
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Back to my question, how did the general manager know this guy was a "fag". Was he wearing an ear ring and a mink coat?:dunno:
 
ScottM said:
Since when is wearing an earring or fur coat an indicator of sexual preference?
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Good point.....
I helped Harrison Ford push his Husky beck into the hangar yesterday and I am 99.99999999999999999% sure is ain't gay..
 
N801BH said:
Good point.....
I helped Harrison Ford push his Husky beck into the hangar yesterday and I am 99.99999999999999999% sure is ain't gay..
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Sure he is.

I was at his pad in Brentwood, installing 2 way mirrors. He came to the door in a dress.
 
N801BH said:
Good point.....
I helped Harrison Ford push his Husky beck into the hangar yesterday and I am 99.99999999999999999% sure is ain't gay..
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Bet you never suspected Rock Hudson until he got AIDS....:tongue:
 
JoeSelch said:
Hmm... sexual orientation is not a "protected" status (in most places).
Not seeing this as any different from the un-named restaurant that is allegedly refusing to serve TSA officers.

(Also not saying whether I think this is right/wrong, good/bad or whether sexual orientation [protected or not] is any different from employment as a TSA officer.)
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flyersfan31 said:
Without knowing the facts of the case other than those related here, I gotta say Henning makes a good point. Car dealers would do a deal with Satan if it helped meet monthly quota.

That being said, there are still plenty of dip****s out there playing the racist/homophobe card. I have friends who weren't served in a Denny's for hours. Yes, they were black. GACK -- they had white wimmin wit dem, which is probably what caused the problem. Notwithstanding that one of the blacks was gay, and none of them was involved with the wimmin. Wouldn't you know, this happened in the South.
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One thing you're forgetting, car salesmen and the GMs all get paid on commission and have quotas, they would never not do a viable sale for any reason. It's one thing to give up a $5 tip it''s another to give up a $1200 commission....
 
ScottM said:
Since when is wearing an earring or fur coat an indicator of sexual preference?
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It won't be, if they ban Dire Straits in Canada.

We've got to install microwave ovens....
 
Henning said:
One thing you're forgetting, car salesmen and the GMs all get paid on commission and have quotas, they would never not do a viable sale for any reason. It's one thing to give up a $5 tip it''s another to give up a $1200 commission....
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Henning, you make a good point. At the same time, as I think you're fond of pointing out from time to time, the world is filled with all kinds of dummies.
 
Obi Heed Kenobi said:
Henning, you make a good point. At the same time, as I think you're fond of pointing out from time to time, the world is filled with all kinds of dummies.
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The stupid, especially the stupid, think primarily with their wallet....
 
Gary F said:
I find this hard to believe. There have been several stories of abuse that were later proved to have been invented by the "victim" to generate sympathy.
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I don't think this is the case here since it's not in the press, that I can see. It's just somebody Ken's wife knows.
 
Everskyward said:
I don't think this is the case here since it's not in the press, that I can see. It's just somebody Ken's wife knows.
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My point. I can't imagine that Ken's wife knows a flaming homosexual, and when Ken was telling the story he didn't say, "this guy is a flaming homo." So I'm guessing that he probably looks and acts just like all us straight guys. Most of the gay guys that I know, look and act like every other guy I know. So I just wondered how the general manager knew.
 
EdFred said:
No, you evict him for being an a-hole. I didn't interpret the term raging as him being a Freddie Mercury look alike wearing ass-less chaps.
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Ron Levy said:
That said, as regards Peter's earlier statement, "raging" suggests aggressive, disturbing behavior that creates rational fear or disrupts normal activities (e.g., "raging drunk"). If the aggressive behavior of a homosexual or black person were to create such rational fear in other tenants, the landlord could legally evict him just as he could evict a "raging" tenant who is not in a protected class, even if the evicted person claimed that this behavior was somehow characteristic of their protected class. So if a homosexual male tenant were to be making uninvited and undesired sexual advances on every male tenant in the building, and refused to stop, that person could be evicted for that behavior (not for his status) just as a heterosexual male could be evicted for making such advances on all female tenants.
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I may have misinterpreted Peter's statment as "raging" to indicate Freddie Mercury type behavior, and not behavior as you describe Ron. If my interpretation is correct, then I stand by my statement, if my interpretation was incorrect, then I agree with Ron and Ed's statement.
 
I agree with Henning that something doesn't sound quite right about this story. Having worked a bit at a car dealership I can't see any reason a salesperson (and the GM is a sales person) would deny a sale. They would sell a car to H!tlor!!
 
Everskyward said:
I don't think this is the case here since it's not in the press, that I can see. It's just somebody Ken's wife knows.
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Some hoaxes are invented for local consumption but get unintentionally publicized beyond the expectation of the hoaxer. I just can't believe that somebody working for a car dealership would do something like this. Businesses want to sell stuff and most people know what would happen if they publicly discriminate against a protected class. If somebody is going to discriminate they will give another reason other than the real one. Discrimination like this is more likely to occur when somebody is renting out an apartment.
 
stagecoachco said:
I agree with Henning that something doesn't sound quite right about this story. Having worked a bit at a car dealership I can't see any reason a salesperson (and the GM is a sales person) would deny a sale. They would sell a car to H!tlor!!
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I've met some real bigots over the years that would refuse service, quit their jobs, whatever to avoid dealing with the people they hate. Money doesn't overcome all hate. Wish that something did.
 
ejensen said:
I've met some real bigots over the years that would refuse service, quit their jobs, whatever to avoid dealing with the people they hate. Money doesn't overcome all hate. Wish that something did.
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Is it possible that the gay person was the first gay (or gay appearing person) to visit this dealership? I can't see how somebody could become a manager at a Infinity dealership if he openly discriminates. I might believe it if he was the manager of a trailer park.
 
ejensen said:
I've met some real bigots over the years that would refuse service, quit their jobs, whatever to avoid dealing with the people they hate. Money doesn't overcome all hate. Wish that something did.
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Yeah, I've met them too, but they don't become General Manager at a new car dealership.
 
Story update: I got additional information that clears up the mystery. David owns a magazine and made a deal to trade two years of ad space for a two year lease, with a value of $500 per month. Apparently, the GM approved the deal without knowing the nature of the magazine, and when he learned of it he used the delivery as an opportunity to renege on the deal. He said the car was worth $750 a month. When David balked at paying the difference and asked what car he could get for $500 a month, the offending line came out.

David called the corporate office and lodged a complaint. Within hours, he received a phone call from the GM apologizing for the behavior and offering the car on the original terms. He considers that fair enough. He is somewhat more charitable than I am.
 
Henning said:
Then it would be "the earrings and the make up" in reference to Boy George....
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And here I've been thinking it was "mink coat."

Of course, I also thought it was "money for nothing, checks for free," too. Made sense to a 5-y.o.....
 
Obi Heed Kenobi said:
And here I've been thinking it was "mink coat."

Of course, I also thought it was "money for nothing, checks for free," too. Made sense to a 5-y.o.....
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You'll love this website:

http://www.kissthisguy.com/

It is one where they look at misheard lyrics. The URL comes from mishearing the Jimmy Hendrix lyric "Scuse me while I kiss the sky"
 
I bounced this off someone I know who's a partner in an ownership group with about half a dozen dealerships, and worked way up via every job there is in the dealership from grease monkey and salesman to service manager, sales manager, and GM. Here's a summary of what he said:

Why would the GM do this? Only reasons he can think of is that either the GM is a moron, or the deal was made for such a low price they couldn't afford to deliver at that price, and the GM needed some excuse to cancel it.

Customer's situation: First, does the customer have a signed sales agreement with a down payment made? If so, he can probably sue for specific performance and get the car delivered at the agreed price, although his legal costs may exceed the cost of going to the Infiniti dealer in the next town and buying the car there. Since the car he ordered is now sitting in the first dealer's lot, he can probably get a "dealer exchange" to get the actual car he originally ordered delivered at the second dealership. Second, given the presence of a third party, the customer could sue for the humiliation for the scene in the salesman's office, although success isn't likely. All in all, his best bet is to just get the car elsewhere, and if he's in a vindictive mood, to pass the word around the gay community to buy their cars elsewhere and complain to Nissan/Infiniti regional/national.

Salesman's situation: He might have a case for wrongful discharge, but it will depend on just what it says in the dealer's personnel/policy manuals. He can take this to a lawyer in that state for a read on that, but why would he want this job back, anyway? If he's a good car salesman, he'll have no problem getting a job elsewhere, and if the GM says anything negative about the salesman to other prospective employers, that could be actionable.

As for taking it to Nissan/Infiniti, if they hear about this, it's unlikely they'll yank the franchise just on this story alone, but the owner might get some nasty mail from regional/national management. The fact that this is a franchise, not a company-owned store, reduces corporate's leverage.

That said, there was a case in 1996 where where the owner of a Nissan dealership lost his franchise over the use of the word "******" in reference to a black employee -- on tape, which ended up on local TV. Google "Nissan Crumpler ******" for plenty of references, including a Nissan spokesman's statement that the owner "has a history of behavior there that's below common decency." If the local gay community runs this story past the local media, and the GM is dumb enough to let them interview him about it and confirm what he said, and the GM has a history of such behavior, this situation could get much worse for the dealership.
 
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Ken Ibold said:
Apparently, the GM approved the deal without knowing the nature of the magazine
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He definitely isn't the sharpest pencil in the box. How do people like this keep their jobs?
 
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