We did an engine stall

RudyP said:
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You know your sister better than we do and perhaps stalls were exactly the right way to demonstrate GA flight to her but for 99% of people an easy, painless, comfortable trip to somewhere they would like to go but where ground or airline transportation is impractical is typically a better first demo of GA flying. I really like to take someone for a meal or overnight to somewhere reasonably far away that is very different and a little exotic. In my experience, passengers are much more impressed with a smooth, comfortable, easy flight to Charleston without having to go through security and the hassle of the airlines than they are of being shown cool flight maneuvers.
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I'd argue your percentage is off. For many a short flight is better. Less stress, easy outs if needed. Then, assuming that goes well, your longer flight to somewhere impracticable by car (I like to fly folks to Cedar Key from Orlando, for example.)

But again, know your passengers. And if you don't know your passengers, really hedge your bets.
 
MAKG1 said:
That the stick in your lap doesn't matter. You're close to stall, and the warning is going off, but a stall break is not going to happen. You'll mush it onto the ground first.
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What exactly do you think that mushing is? A stall isn't Boolean, it's not on or off. The stalling of a wing happens very gradually starting at the inboard trailing edge and moving forward and outward. Parts of the wing are most definitely stalled in a landing which is why you "mush" onto the ground.
 
Power off stalls are incredibly violent in a 172...dangerous move. You guys sure now how to lay the risk on thick.
 
Mtns2Skies said:
You know some people *gasp* sign up for aerobatic flights on their first flight in a GA plane. Should the pilots that oblige have their license revoked?
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I had one of the coolest flying experiences (maybe the coolest life experience I have ever had as well) with a guy a few hangars down from me. Flew F-16s for about 20 years at Luke AFB (and overseas of course)...now a Southwest Airlines Captain. We went up in his RV8 (that he races at the Reno Air Races). WOW. I was going to post about it, but I knew a bunch of people on here would get their panties in a bunch so I refrained from sharing my photos and experience. Oh well :rolleyes:

photo 1.jpeg
 
azpilot said:
Ya, like I'm going to do that now? So I can get more judgmental people jumping down my throat? Ya, right.
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you already made it this far...why not keep on going....it will make you a better pilot ...;)
 
Wow, you guys put way too much thought and time when it comes to take someone up flying.
 
jsstevens said:
I'd argue your percentage is off. For many a short flight is better. Less stress, easy outs if needed. Then, assuming that goes well, your longer flight to somewhere impracticable by car (I like to fly folks to Cedar Key from Orlando, for example.)

But again, know your passengers. And if you don't know your passengers, really hedge your bets.
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Fair enough - obviously my 99% was a made up number and you're right it probably isn't that high.
 
This thread really ****es me off.


From reading the thread, I obviously missed some pictures of azpilot's hot sister. WTF? How dare he remove them. That is highly irresponsible behavior. Where are the mods?
 
jsstevens said:
I'm firmly in the "know your passenger" camp.

I've done a stall with 1 first time passenger. I know him well. He was contemplating Air Force academy and pilot training and he wanted to do it. We did 1 power off stall in a C-172 C which has some of the gentlest stall characteristics I've ever experienced. He loved it. I also let him fly the plane around for a while at altitude. I'd do it again in a heartbeat given the same conditions.

I've also taken a number of children and adults on their first rides and been entirely gentle and careful and I will NEVER take a smaller child (say 12 or under) on their first ride without another adult along. I want somebody else to deal with a freaked out child if it becomes necessary.

So, I guess some here would consider me a menace. But none of my passengers have. Nor have any of the instructors I've worked with over the years. I'll take their judgement over anybody who hasn't even met me.

John
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Here's the problem with that. You can't possibly know your passengers on their first flight. They don't know themselves how they would react to unexpected motions.

Maybe on a later flight IF you're certain they know what they are agreeing to, AND you're willing to bet your life on them being right.

I guess you haven't had the experience of passengers moving controls without permission or even awareness. It will eventually happen.
 
flight2000 said:
I certainly wouldn't call you a bad CFI since you are trained to teach those maneuvers, but it was still a risk. How did you know what the students reaction was going to be on his very first flight? What if he thought he was perfectly capable of handling it, but then got in the air and was not? Not sure I would have done that until I was comfortable knowing the student could handle the first few flights, but it was your risk assessment and you determined it was fine. I know, worst case scenarios, but aren't we supposed to look at all angles like that?

Something else to chew on. There were other factors involved in this accident, but my point is still you never really know until you know and then it may be to late.....

https://www.aopa.org/training-and-s...cidents/death-grip-spin-training-turns-tragic

Cheers,
Brian
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The rest of my story is this. The student's dad was an avid pilot & the son flew with him all the time. His dad always told him how scary spins were. He just wanted to see how bad they were & to see if he could tolerate them. We had fun.

After the lesson he took me for a ride in his Porshe 911 Carrera. Now that was scary to me. Ya, the family had money.
 
CC268 said:
I had one of the coolest flying experiences (maybe the coolest life experience I have ever had as well) with a guy a few hangars down from me. Flew F-16s for about 20 years at Luke AFB (and overseas of course)...now a Southwest Airlines Captain. We went up in his RV8 (that he races at the Reno Air Races). WOW. I was going to post about it, but I knew a bunch of people on here would get their panties in a bunch so I refrained from sharing my photos and experience. Oh well :rolleyes:

View attachment 52251
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Sounds like an awesome experience. To bad many of the people here couldn't handle it.
 
RudyP said:
Fair enough - obviously my 99% was a made up number and you're right it probably isn't that high.
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I think 99% tends to be a good 'catch all' kind of number that tends to mean 'most everyone'.
 
midcap said:
you already made it this far...why not keep on going....it will make you a better pilot ...;)
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Ha ha!! I was actually thinking about it when I made the OP, but the video was shared on facebook as a 'friends only' post. I couldn't share it here even if I wanted to.
 
flight2000 said:
I certainly wouldn't call you a bad CFI since you are trained to teach those maneuvers, but it was still a risk. How did you know what the students reaction was going to be on his very first flight? What if he thought he was perfectly capable of handling it, but then got in the air and was not? Not sure I would have done that until I was comfortable knowing the student could handle the first few flights, but it was your risk assessment and you determined it was fine. I know, worst case scenarios, but aren't we supposed to look at all angles like that?

Something else to chew on. There were other factors involved in this accident, but my point is still you never really know until you know and then it may be to late.....

https://www.aopa.org/training-and-s...cidents/death-grip-spin-training-turns-tragic

Cheers,
Brian
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WOW at that story...that guy shouldn't have been a pilot in the first place. Death grip on the yoke and wouldn't LET GO in any stressful situation such as a simulated engine failure and stalls?? Are you kidding me? And this was witnessed by several instructors...and then they went out and spun with this guy. It's both the instructors fault and the students fault. If you have that sort of an impulsive reaction to literally death grip the yoke and not let go as your spinning towards the ground...you need to rethink your flying career.

I've been doing spins galore in the Great Lakes...I have to admit it is a little nerve racking at first, but wow to have that sort of reaction...definitely an extreme example. Spin reversals and accelerated spins...now that will wake your ass up.
 
MAKG1 said:
I guess you haven't had the experience of passengers moving controls without permission or even awareness. It will eventually happen.
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I think this is the best point I've seen anyone make in the 'don't do it' camp. That is not something I have experienced. It is definitely something good to think about and take into account.
 
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SkyDog58 said:
This thread really ****es me off.


From reading the thread, I obviously missed some pictures of azpilot's hot sister. WTF? How dare he remove them. That is highly irresponsible behavior. Where are the mods?
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I guess you'll just have to be a little quicker next time. ;)
 
MAKG1 said:
Here's the problem with that. You can't possibly know your passengers on their first flight. They don't know themselves how they would react to unexpected motions.

Maybe on a later flight IF you're certain they know what they are agreeing to, AND you're willing to bet your life on them being right.

I guess you haven't had the experience of passengers moving controls without permission or even awareness. It will eventually happen.
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I can actually understand this and it probably is a great point. I have always been a little leery of new passengers "instinctively" reaching for the flight controls if they got scared or nervous. They usually have their seat all the way back, but it certainly wouldn't prevent them from grabbing the yoke. That said, if I knew they were that nervous I probably wouldn't fly with them anyhow...but I could see how it could happen
 
GlennAB1 said:
Pretty bold! Sounds like you have it made in the shade!
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Honestly Glenn...I'm lucky to be alive after doing aerobatics and spins like that. What was I thinking? o_O
 
kyleb said:
Took a cow-worker flying once.
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What the heck is a cow-worker? I might not want to know.

The other strange thing in this thread is the discussion of the hot sister. Was your air conditioning INOP or did I miss some pics?

Seriously: Don't ever demonstrate what you did to get your certificate to passengers. They don't care. They just want to enjoy a ride from point A to point B.
 
CC268 said:
I can actually understand this and it probably is a great point. I have always been a little leery of new passengers "instinctively" reaching for the flight controls if they got scared or nervous. They usually have their seat all the way back, but it certainly wouldn't prevent them from grabbing the yoke. That said, if I knew they were that nervous I probably wouldn't fly with them anyhow...but I could see how it could happen
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I've never had a truly scared passenger, but I've had unaware passengers twice. One is permanently restricted to the back seat because he likes to poke at rudder pedals at random times, and has NO idea he's doing it (I strongly suspect ADHD). The other one just confused rudder pedals with footrests. Made for an interesting taxi, but it was easily corrected. That might also make a stall recovery "sporty."

I have had nervous passengers a few times. They are not always obvious. During the last set of rides, one of the really excited kids turned down the yoke. That doesn't happen often at all, but it's perfectly fine. I responded with "OK, here's a few local landmarks." The other kids and the chaperone gave him flak for that after the flight, and I had to remind them that it is entirely the kid's choice. The last thing I want is a scared kid on the yoke.
 
Ravioli said:
Seriously: Don't ever demonstrate what you did to get your certificate to passengers. They don't care. They just want to enjoy a ride from point A to point B.
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Sums up the thread. :thumbsup:
 
azpilot said:
Sigh.... This is why I love this board so much. (sarcasm) I must be a mascochist for wanting to come here and post about a fun experience I had. Most Private Pilots really are some of the most arrogant know it all's you'll ever come across. I've said it before and I'll say it again, I can't believe anyone wants to associate with us.

There is absolutely nothing dangerous about demonstrating a simple power off stall in the practice area at 2,000' AGL on a Arizona VFR day with no clouds for 100 miles and visibility over 20 miles. Clearing turns were performed. Radio calls were made.
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Made a slight change above. And you are right. Too many people here will scream bloody murder if you dare to do something just slightly different than what they do. Pretty much why I quit trying to be helpful on here. I am mostly here for the entertainment value.

You know your family better that any one here even thinks they do.
 
kgruber said:
They want to fly over their house, mostly.
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Yes, that happens a lot. I try to steer them to their school instead, as it's usually a whole lot easier to spot.

Except for the time one guy wanted to fly over SJSU. It's at 1.5 mile final for SJC 30R. SJC tower wasn't touching that.
 
MAKG1 said:
Yes, that happens a lot. I try to steer them to their school instead, as it's usually a whole lot easier to spot.
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Yeah. And how are you supposed to crash into a school full of kids flying over their house? :)
 
MAKG1 said:
Yes, that happens a lot. I try to steer them to their school instead, as it's usually a whole lot easier to spot.

Except for the time one guy wanted to fly over SJSU. It's at 1.5 mile final for SJC 30R. SJC tower wasn't touching that.
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Don't you think that's a bit dangerous??! Flying a tiny little airplane over a school house filled with children? I feel you have negated safety. :fingerwag:

Edit: jsstevens beat me to it. ;)
 
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