We are closer than ever, please contact your representative

Thanks for all the personal attacks and assumptions about me. Somewhere in there was some actual reasoning, which is what I was looking for.

BTW, I'm what many people consider middle aged, not a teenager with no brain. As I said, I asked the questions because up til now all I've seen is a bunch of whiney bitching from pilots wanting their lives made easier for them, and I was hoping to get some real information on why the medical was a bad thing. Apparently if you poke the bear enough, you get crapped on, but also get some valid arguments besides whining and bitching.
 
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shoprat said:
I am probably going to schedule an exam and probably fail because of these
terrible conditions although I pass my DOT physical every time!
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If you think that you might at some point want to fly Light Sport, DON'T SCHEDULE THE EXAM. If you fail, you're forever locked out of that, and most likely any relief that might come our way via the current set of bills.

At the very least, schedule a consult or email a "difficult case" AME to discuss your situation before going ahead with a 3rd class exam. It's a bell that can't be unrung.
 
One problem with the LSA is that my mission was to be able to take my kids and grand kids up and without sounding too "whiney or bitchy" to be able to do it in a grown-ups plane!
 
StinkBug said:
Thanks for all the personal attacks and assumptions about me. Somewhere in there was some actual reasoning, which is what I was looking for.

BTW, I'm what many people consider middle aged, not a teenager with no brain. As I said, I asked the questions because up til now all I've seen is a bunch of whiney bitching from pilots wanting their lives made easier for them, and I was hoping to get some real information on why the medical was a bad thing. Apparently if you poke the bear enough, you get crapped on, but also get some valid arguments besides whining and bitching.
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Just quoting this so that when he calms down and sees how much of an a$$ he sounds like he can't destroy the evidence...:D

Seriously, I never though being called left leaning was a personal attack.

The best valid argument I can see is that a third class medical provides no improvement in safety and is just another case of our government pushing into areas it does not belong. Just because the pushing started almost a century ago does not make it right.
 
StinkBug said:
Thanks for all the personal attacks and assumptions about me. Somewhere in there was some actual reasoning, which is what I was looking for.

BTW, I'm what many people consider middle aged, not a teenager with no brain. As I said, I asked the questions because up til now all I've seen is a bunch of whiney bitching from pilots wanting their lives made easier for them, and I was hoping to get some real information on why the medical was a bad thing. Apparently if you poke the bear enough, you get crapped on, but also get some valid arguments besides whining and bitching.
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If someone called you "a teenager with no brain", then I must have missed it. I assumed you were younger than middle-aged, but it could also be that you're either exceptionally healthy or were doctor-phobic enough to avoid regular medical care even before you had an aviation-related reason to do so. What drew my attention was your wondering why people were complaining when it was so easy to pass. If it was easy for you to pass, and you're middle-aged and have the usual list of minor ailments that most middle-aged people accumulate through the years, then either you're very lucky or your AME wasn't doing his job.

While there are certainly pilots who are satisfied with minimum standards, most of the pilots I know who oppose the 3rd class medical are both health- and safety-conscious people who undergo considerable recurrent training to stay proficient and safe in the air. If it were just a matter of convenience I could agree with you, but it's actually a huge expense for many middle-aged pilots just to keep their medical certification. The list of medical conditions that require SIs is very long and many pilots have more than one. It's not uncommon to have to spend several thousand dollars out of one's own pocket to undergo the required tests. I don't know if there are any statistics on it, but I wouldn't be surprised to learn that for a lot of pilots, the added expense of keeping their medical becomes the last straw (on top of rising fuel and maintenance costs) that drives them out of aviation.
 
I haven't been following this too closely either...what would be the limitations for exercising the driver's license medical under the current version of the legislation? Same privileges as now? Will we still be able to fly high performance/complex and IR, assuming we have all endorsements and ratings?
 
I agree with what others have said already. The real reason for doing away with the third class medical is that it is unnecessary and doesn't make flying safer. You only have to look as far as the sport pilot experiment. To see if the 3rd class medical makes flying safer, we just need to compare the incidents in sport pilots caused by medical conditions to those of pilots flying with a medical. If it's statistically the same, then it's a no brainer. Does anybody have those numbers?
 
QuiQuog said:
I agree with what others have said already. The real reason for doing away with the third class medical is that it is unnecessary and doesn't make flying safer. You only have to look as far as the sport pilot experiment. To see if the 3rd class medical makes flying safer, we just need to compare the incidents in sport pilots caused by medical conditions to those of pilots flying with a medical. If it's statistically the same, then it's a no brainer. Does anybody have those numbers?
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I'm not sure if they exist. If they do, I expect the EAA might have them. The difficult part in incidence calculations is the denominator... IOW the per hours flown part. Who knows how many total hours are flown by PPs flying under sport pilot rules? By PPs flying with 3rd class medicals? :dunno:
 
StinkBug said:
Thanks for all the personal attacks and assumptions about me. Somewhere in there was some actual reasoning, which is what I was looking for.
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And since it never comes up: Don't forget from a constitutional perspective, we shouldn't need to ask the federal government for permission for something like this. Commercial ops? Sure, under interstate commerce. Pleasure? Nope. :no:
 
I failed to see any personal attacks against you (a couple for Jay thrown in). And there was actual reasoning. You waded into a pretty deep pool, but to the contrary, I think the vast majority of posts were well-mannered and filled with reasoning.

I have trekked the SI road and been to Peoria several times so I see it from an insider's perspective. The dollars I spent 'coming clean' to the FAA over some insignificant issue - I would much rather have turned into airplane noise.
 
write-stuff said:
Jay, my AME takes credit cards. You might ask why yours demands cash. I don't think it's universal.
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My last three AMEs, in two states, have been "cash or check only". I assumed they didn't want to pay the cc fees.
 
timwinters said:
Just like when he said there's no urine test. I've never taken a flight physical with no urine sample involved. Maybe Guido is his AME.
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I stand corrected. My wife reminded me that we did, in fact, have to pee in a cup at our last medical exam.

Mea culpa.
 
"The FAA boys tell me that the banned list applies to all pilots...from a "drivers' license medical" to a first class medical. So the latest proposals don't provide any relief. Sure you can try lying, but you could always do that."

This has been discussed at length elsewhere on POA. I believe it to be untrue (as do others). The FAA language on this issue makes no mention of this claim.
 
pilot1956 said:
"The FAA boys tell me that the banned list applies to all pilots...from a "drivers' license medical" to a first class medical. So the latest proposals don't provide any relief. Sure you can try lying, but you could always do that."

This has been discussed at length elsewhere on POA. I believe it to be untrue (as do others). The FAA language on this issue makes no mention of this claim.
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Yes...in a thread I started after talking to said FAA boys.

But you're welcome to believe what you want.
 
iflyvfr said:
I failed to see any personal attacks against you (a couple for Jay thrown in). And there was actual reasoning. You waded into a pretty deep pool, but to the contrary, I think the vast majority of posts were well-mannered and filled with reasoning.
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I felt the "you must be young" "left leaning" and "oh to be young and naive" comments were a little along the personal attack line. I didn't take any huge offense to them, I just thought it was kinda immature and didn't have any place in the discussion. I purposely asked the questions I did to get a response, and among the responses I got were the ones I was actually after, the ones with actual valid reasoning.

My point was more along the lines of "if you were going to stand up in front of an FAA board, or committee or whatever, and present a case for getting rid of the 3rd class medical, what would that case be? Simply saying that it's a hassle and that it's silly isn't gonna make a very good impression on anybody in power. Coming up with valid reasons why it's not necessary, and why it doesn't actually help public safety might. That's why I took the stance I did, to learn those valid reasons. Thanks to those of you who actually offered them up.
 
I think those of you advocating for medicals to fly privately are likely the people who want to tell me what to eat and how much excersise I should get every day. The fact is, the only argument you can make in favor of the third class medical is what you could cause to happen to someone else in the unlikely event of a medical related accident. There are so many ways in daily life things can happen to us. It does not pose a serious risk to any other human beings if private pilots fly without third class medicals. Period. I am a firm believer in liberty. Please ask your representatives to vote in favor of this Bill if you are also in favor of liberty.
 
As I said before I don't have a dog in this fight yet,but that being said look at it from my side. I do not have any money invested YET! but lets say I get my physical and they defer and/or I have to check back in 6 months(not sure how it works) or they say good to go for a year.

So now I sign up for training and spend the better part of a 10,000.00 dollar bill
and a year from now they tell me "sorry" can't re-issue, now what? and maybe to lower my training costs I went out and bought a plane, that I can no longer fly! And as a side note I looked at the 8500 form and notice a box labled employer, what the hell do they need to know who I work for?

Sorry if I sound alittle ****y about this but to tell you the truth I have had about enough of big brother trying to save my ass !!
 
shoprat said:
As I said before I don't have a dog in this fight yet,but that being said look at it from my side. I do not have any money invested YET! but lets say I get my physical and they defer and/or I have to check back in 6 months(not sure how it works) or they say good to go for a year.

So now I sign up for training and spend the better part of a 10,000.00 dollar bill
and a year from now they tell me "sorry" can't re-issue, now what? and maybe to lower my training costs I went out and bought a plane, that I can no longer fly!
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Yes, that's the position that all of us owners who are facing difficult medicals are in. And your quandary is one that everyone who has caught this addictive bug called aviation will have to face sooner or later. There is no guarantee that any of us won't be stricken with a disease tomorrow that makes us truly unfit to fly. Far less guarantee that we won't end up next year with a diagnosis that means we'll have to fight to keep our medicals for the rest of our flying days.

This isn't intended to influence your decision, but here's another point of view on this: if everyone on the brink of getting into aviation decided that the cost of getting and keeping their med cert just wasn't worth it, what do you think would happen to GA in a few years after the older generation dies off or hangs up their wings for good?
 
My last AME (retired now) was so old and decrepid, he had to roll around on a stool in his office.

He gave me a physical like a Jr. High kid trying out for football ... cough cough! I know whether or not if I have a hernia dammit! I'm not 14. :mad2:

What a joke.
 
StinkBug said:
Somewhere in there was some actual reasoning, which is what I was looking for.
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Medically speaking Junior, your time creeps closer every year. So, stand by.

No bitchin'. Here's some reasoning. A mechanical aortic valve installed a few years back means it's unlikely I could even get an SI for a 3rd class. At age 50, I run 10Ks and half marathons, snow ski, bike, and work out 3 times a week. I'm probably in the best shape of my life. Yet, I can't take a 172 or Cherokee for a hop a couple of times per year. The restrictions exceed the risks considering the other things I can do with a simple drivers license.

And a word of advice...nobody likes smug a-holes. You might want to tone it down a bit.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
You gotta love the world we live in now. Everything always has to become political. No matter if it has no political roots (this doesn't) or not.
 
N801BH said:
I use DR Brent Blue, the AeroMedix guy... http://www.aeromedix.com/

He lives here, is a good guy and flys more then anyone in the valley so he loves aviation.... Once every 2 years ain't bad and it is good to chew the fat with him... I am not sure it's worth 175.00, but as it stands now.. I need him for a 3rd class....

I am due here pretty soon too..
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Now you know. :wink2:
 
Tim, show me where, in the applicable regs, that the FAA says anything about your claim that meds that disqualify a pilot for a Third Class Medical ground a Sport Pilot. Look at CFR §61.53 "Prohibition on operations during medical deficiency".

Until you have an actual case, you should know that you are saying stuff contrary to published regs.
 
Jay Honeck said:
My last three AMEs, in two states, have been "cash or check only". I assumed they didn't want to pay the cc fees.
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I does just mean they don't want to pay merchant services fees. You know that. I'm OK with that. If they accept checks, they aren't trying to tax dodge. When you deposit a check at the bank in our day and age, the IRS can know about it. They can cheat for a time, but I would think that an MD that has a low income might be a red flag and I sure hell wouldn't do it.

My AME takes all payments, but charges extra for CCs... oh, I'm sorry, offers a discount for cash and checks.:wink2:
 
shoprat said:
One problem with the LSA is that my mission was to be able to take my kids and grand kids up and without sounding too "whiney or bitchy" to be able to do it in a grown-ups plane!
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Here's what you have to decide for yourself. Which is better, taking one kid up for a ride at a time, or no rides at all? I personally would favor the former as it allows you more one on one time with each kid instead of processing them in bulk and gives you more reasons to practice your landings. Also LSAs sip the gas, so you can easily afford to go up and down all day.

Also a hint because you just joined, but plenty of "grown ups" fly LSA. Considering anything with two seats a "kid's plane" won't buy you a lot of friends in the aviation community. Many LSAs are actually faster than some "grown up planes".

If you seriously look at an LSA and think "toy", or "kiddie plane" and can't see yourself flying one, then you really don't want to fly. You just want to impress other people and the kids. In this case, I would suggest taking the money you would have spent on flying and and buy a kick ass wakeboard boat. The kids will love it. Probably more than the plane.

There is nothing wrong with that. I am a boater too with three boats at my dock now. Boating is an awesome family activity.
 
Jay Honeck said:
If you have a heart attack while flying a Cessna 150, you kill yourself and perhaps one other. The risk of killing someone on the ground is remote.
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I think you are being a little disingenuous with your "best case scenario" here. The people that are actively going on about abolition of the 3rd class medical very much want to keep flying whatever the hell they are flying now. That means Bonanzas, Senecas and even PC-12s. Oh yes, there will be more than just, "perhaps one other". If the FAA said, OK, no more 3rd class, but only two seats and no more than 125hp, would that satisfy everyone here?

It is true that deaths on the ground as a result of a GA plane crash are rare, but we live in a world of lawyers and progressives. It is a fact that time to time people do get killed on the ground randomly from a GA crash, or forced landing. This is enough for people to demand "change" and they will likely get it. Whatever is accomplished with this new "driver's license medical" will likely be reversed over night and everyone will have to meet 2nd class standards.

I'm all for the demise of the 3rd class medical and hope everyone writes their congress creatures, but I'm just saying that IF it actually comes to pass that the 3rd class medical does fade into history, I expect it all to eventually end up worse in the end. It's just the country we live in now. The majority are now dependent on lawyers, government and the media to "fix" things.

:(
 
Dav8or said:
Also a hint because you just joined, but plenty of "grown ups" fly LSA. Considering anything with two seats a "kid's plane" won't buy you a lot of friends in the aviation community. Many LSAs are actually faster than some "grown up planes".

If you seriously look at an LSA and think "toy", or "kiddie plane" and can't see yourself flying one, then you really don't want to fly. You just want to impress other people and the kids. In this case, I would suggest taking the money you would have spent on flying and and buy a kick ass wakeboard boat. The kids will love it. Probably more than the plane.

There is nothing wrong with that. I am a boater too with three boats at my dock now. Boating is an awesome family activity.
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Disagree.

If you enjoy "going somewhere", bringing your family, or flying IFR, LSAs don't really cut it.

I am really not interested in LSAs. I see the appeal (cheap flying with no medical), but for now, since I have the cash and ability to get a medical, I'm just not interested.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
dans2992 said:
Disagree.

If you enjoy "going somewhere", bringing your family, or flying IFR, LSAs don't really cut it.

I am really not interested in LSAs. I see the appeal (cheap flying with no medical), but for now, since I have the cash and ability to get a medical, I'm just not interested.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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Ok. I get it, but if you lost your medical, but could still fly an LSA, would you still fly?
 
Dav8or said:
Ok. I get it, but if you lost your medical, but could still fly an LSA, would you still fly?
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No. I'm 6'-5", 215. LSA's are a tight fit. 2 adults, and I'm planning on how much fuel to unload. I've flown both the Piper and the Cessna. The closest one to rent is 40 miles away from here and there is just one and its $$$ per hour. It's inside the SFRA. The next closest is 50 miles away, and at a towered airport. I don't want to own again, if I'm not going to travel in it, or fly IFR.

Triple bypass grand dad in the Class A motor home flying down the interstate is a far bigger risk.

There are numerous 172's, Cherokees, and Diamonds available locally.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
My appologies to the forum, I was trying to be a little funny about the LSA being something I wasn't interested in. Sorry I ment no disrespect,actually I admire all aircraft I just would prefer something a little bigger.

Again sorry
 
Todd Copeland said:
Get rid of the third class medical requirement.

govt.eaa.orghttp://govt.eaa.org/

Ask your representative to pass the bill!
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I sent mine!

The EAA website makes it easy. I took about two extra minutes to customize my message, but just sending the default message is much better than doing nothing! I encourage everybody to just click on http://govt.eaa.org/ take 30 seconds, and send that message!
 
I sent a personal email to my two senators and one rep a week ago.....

When I get the replies from them I will copy and paste the comments here...
 
I crafted up a reply mentioning how the FAA is diligently working but overwhelmed with issues like UAS. This frees up resources and the sport pilot records indicate no problems. Stuff like that. We'll see.

One thing I will say: the proposed sleep apnea rules motivated me to get my weight under control. I've lost >60 lbs since November of 2013 and I feel so much better! So, at least for me, the medical has served a useful purpose.

I don't doubt that there are AMEs who simply use it for unreportable income. But most? Really? Mine takes cash or check, but he doesn't have to deal with credit card costs (Jay, what do you pay to process credit cards these days?). It is a side practice for him as he had (until he sold it) a regular family practice where he is still employed. The aviation practice is separate. His "bedside manner" at the aviation medical practice is what convinced me to change over to him as my primary care physician and I've never regretted it. He takes into account any implications of treatment on my medical. And he's a pilot.

John
 
jsstevens said:
I crafted up a reply mentioning how the FAA is diligently working but overwhelmed with issues like UAS. This frees up resources and the sport pilot records indicate no problems. Stuff like that. We'll see.

[snip]
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I got the following response within about 2 minutes:
Thank you for taking the time to contact me. Your correspondence has been received and I welcome the opportunity to address your concerns. Hearing directly from constituents such as yourself is truly an honor, and your input is much appreciated.

Please look for my response in the near future. In an effort to serve you better, please do not duplicate e-mails into the web-form, as it may serve to delay the response to your concerns. If you need immediate assistance with a federal agency, please call (866) 630-7106, toll-free in Florida. Please do not mail materials that require immediate attention to the Washington DC Office. Due to security screenings, postal mail can take up to four weeks to be delivered and will delay our response to your request.

Sincerely,

U.S. Senator Marco Rubio
 
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