Water in Tank Emergency/Question

WannFly said:
Speaking of fuel stuff, I went to the shop to calibrate senders and put 2 gallons at a time. I had about 10 gal in the tanks when I had landed there, my A&P drained it and put it in a tank that’s mounted on a truck bed. Only my fuel was there ( or so I was told). I poured 1 gal in a container, half of that was GREEN. I have no idea how, he didn’t know either. Rest 9 gallons were blue. I believe 130 octane is green but no one knows how .5 gallon from that tank turned green. Needless to say, first gallon didn’t go back in the fuel tank
View attachment 77214View attachment 77215

Go figure
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Be happy it’s not a urine sample:eek::eek:
 
I used to get water in my gas all the time when I owned my T-Craft and had it tied down outside. Any rain would hit the fuel gauge wire (typical cork and wire) and run down into the tank. Finally got a handle on that by getting a sealed cap and leave the cap with the gauge in the cockpit when not flying. But one day my engine started sputtering over the New Jersey pine barrens. I got it down in a little field in the middle of nowhere, and drained a bunch of orange water and sludge out. When it finally became red (still had 80 octane then) I started up. Taxiing back to the end of the field, I saw a rusty windsock frame. Yes, I managed to pick what was (unknown to me) an abandoned airport for my emergency landing!

Before that flight, I had filled up from the FBO's brand new fuel truck, which they hadn't flushed properly before putting into service. "Had words" and damn near decked the FBO owner when I got back to the airport. Started bringing car gas in cans instead of buying from him, and a few months later he reported me to the FAA for something that I didn't do.

With my plane hangared nowadays, I haven't seen a drop of water in years.
 
I just scanned the responses, so I may have missed it. One way you could miss the water in the tanks when sumped is if the sample you pulled was 100% water. If looking for a uniform appearance of the fuel while sumping it could potentially look ok when it isn't. I've taken samples in a few airplanes that required several sample cups full of water be removed before even hitting the gasoline in the tank.
 
mondtster said:
I just scanned the responses, so I may have missed it. One way you could miss the water in the tanks when sumped is if the sample you pulled was 100% water. If looking for a uniform appearance of the fuel while sumping it could potentially look ok when it isn't. I've taken samples in a few airplanes that required several sample cups full of water be removed before even hitting the gasoline in the tank.
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Water in a tank has been known to take on the color of the fuel, fooling the pilot. I feel it if I'm not sure. Gasoline will evaporate quickly and chill your finger. And the tetraethyl lead will poison you a bit:(

The white residue on your skin after gasoline dries is fat washed out of your skin. Do it enough and the skin gets hard and cracks.

100LL will turn green when it gets really old. A really slow seep--really slow--will leave behind a green, oily gunk.

I've changed a lot of sump drain valves. We always held a can under the valve and drained a quart or so of fuel before installing the new valve. Amazing what one sometimes found. Bits of bugs, often, if the airplane was fuelled at night. The bugs are attracted by the light, and once near the light they smell the fuel and head for the open filler neck. NEVER leave the cap off when you're not actually filling the tank. Bugs like the smell of gasoline and other hydrocarbons. It's why they manage to land in your fresh paint...
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
Water dyed red for contrast. (Cessna Tank) http://www.sumpthis.com/
01210020R.jpg
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Goes a long way to explain why a modern 182 has six dozen fuel sampling drains...or so it seems. :rolleyes:
 
I'm more certain now that I had to have sumped 100% water. My old fuel tester is slightly dyed blue simply from age (new GATS in the mail). I had a little fuel on my fingers from the other wing tank and the engine and didn't stick my nose in the thing to be sure I was really smelling what I caught in the jar.

I'm still searching for the WHY the water was there. I talked to the FBO, but the tanks had been filled 3 weeks ago and they had no other issues. I think it came down to either rain water getting in during fueling or due to the cap not being seated tightly or being worn. Either way, it's more comforting knowing that regardless of WHY, I know that I can detect this in the future with more vigilance. I am also going to ensure I run on both tanks during taxi and run up prior to take off.

I hope everybody here takes a few extra seconds to make 100% sure of what they are seeing and smelling on pre-flight. The link to the old thread is great, as were the other resources to show how easily water or Jet A contamination can be missed. It's a scary thought, but one that's in your control as a pilot.
 
I don't think you will ever miss it again. I suspect your gas caps. I used to fly Beech skippers that were tied down outside. Sumping water from the tanks was part of the preflight, usually just a few drops.
 
AU_James said:
I'm more certain now that I had to have sumped 100% water. My old fuel tester is slightly dyed blue simply from age (new GATS in the mail).
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I previously posted my tale of water-contaminated fuel.

One event I didn't include in the posting happened while I was extracting the gallons of water from the fuel tank, after I'd landed. One pilot wandered up and asked what I was doing.

I triggered the sump to fill a clear sampler, and showed it to him.

"Yeah, that'll happen when you mix fuel types."

He didn't recognize it as water...just as a mix of 80 and 100 octane fuels, which were DESIGNED to produce a clear mixture when combined (as a warning).

Today, I'm running a mixture of auto fuel and 100LL in my airplane, and don't really see much tinge of color when I pull a sample.

Ron Wanttaja
 
AU_James said:
How would I catch this, then? Sump the engine multiple times? Make sure I run the engine on both tanks for some amount of time prior to take off?
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You said you returned the checked fuel to the tank. If allowed, I would dump it on the pavement. It should evaporate quickly if it’s not water. (I do environmental for a living, I know, I know).
 
WannFly said:
Speaking of fuel stuff, I went to the shop to calibrate senders and put 2 gallons at a time. I had about 10 gal in the tanks when I had landed there, my A&P drained it and put it in a tank that’s mounted on a truck bed. Only my fuel was there ( or so I was told). I poured 1 gal in a container, half of that was GREEN. I have no idea how, he didn’t know either. Rest 9 gallons were blue. I believe 130 octane is green but no one knows how .5 gallon from that tank turned green. Needless to say, first gallon didn’t go back in the fuel tank
View attachment 77214View attachment 77215

Go figure
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None of that fuel should have gone back into a aircraft. Once contamination is discovered that fuel is unusable again in a aircraft.
 
455 Bravo Uniform said:
You said you returned the checked fuel to the tank. If allowed, I would dump it on the pavement. It should evaporate quickly if it’s not water. (I do environmental for a living, I know, I know).
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We have a jerry can for this at our club. We never put it back into the tanks.

Just when starting out I was curious and wanted to be sure I could detect water, so I took some tap water and added to the summer fuel in my “GATS” ( I guess it is called. What does that stand for?) and saw clearly how it looks.

But until this thread I never thought about the whole GATS container having only water. Seemed clear to me (and others mention here too) that there could be discoloration on the container. I believe ours in fact are also. In addition if the first sump point contains fuel, after that I think the container is going to smell like avgas so subsequent smell tests are less reliable, and also the nose gets less sensitive.

I liked the tip about dipping a finger in there and rubbing together. That might be something to try.
Other than that, the only think I can think of is if you have a water bottle with you, add it to the glass to see that it is different than the contents. Some sort of litmus like indicator that would show a sense of water?
 
James, just now seeing this, your experience is an almost exact replication of one I had back in October, also an Archer (III). Plane sat with full tanks in rainy weather for two days up at Addison. I sumped just before sunrise, both tanks, checked for color and smell, looked in both tanks, caps seemed tight, tanks full and blue, all seemed ok. Startup, taxi, run up, takeoff, climb to 2000, wait for further clearance, climb again to 5000, cruise for 45mins, fuel pump on, switch tanks, then watch in disbelief as fuel pressure went to almost zero and silence. I was over an undercast from 500-4000 with the ink still drying on my instrument ticket.

Mind you, I had set my Bo down in a field 3 months earlier, totaling it (engine grenaded, that’s a whole nuther story). “You’ve got to be ****ting me”. Switched tanks, waited, nothing, did some other pilot stuff trying to revive it. Declared. Just as I’m about to sink into the fluffies the engine started to sputter to life. Got a climb to 7000 and played around until I finally got it to run on the fuller tank. Landed and the engine sputtered on rollout.

Mechanic said they drained a full gallon plus from both tanks.
 
LongRoadBob said:
In addition if the first sump point contains fuel, after that I think the container is going to smell like avgas so subsequent smell tests are less reliable, and also the nose gets less sensitive.
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This. I've never understood the wisdom of 'if the sample is all clear or if you're not sure, smell it to see if it smells like fuel.' We're talking about a container that has hundreds of samples of fuel run through it and rarely if ever gets washed or scrubbed out. It smells like fuel when there's fuel in it, it smells like fuel when its empty. Unless someone has mixed a bunch of fabreeze with the water in your tanks, you're likely going detect the smell of fuel when you sniff the sample.
 
Blatham489 said:
James, just now seeing this, your experience is an almost exact replication of one I had back in October, also an Archer (III). Plane sat with full tanks in rainy weather for two days up at Addison. I sumped just before sunrise, both tanks, checked for color and smell, looked in both tanks, caps seemed tight, tanks full and blue, all seemed ok. Startup, taxi, run up, takeoff, climb to 2000, wait for further clearance, climb again to 5000, cruise for 45mins, fuel pump on, switch tanks, then watch in disbelief as fuel pressure went to almost zero and silence. I was over an undercast from 500-4000 with the ink still drying on my instrument ticket.

Mind you, I had set my Bo down in a field 3 months earlier, totaling it (engine grenaded, that’s a whole nuther story). “You’ve got to be ****ting me”. Switched tanks, waited, nothing, did some other pilot stuff trying to revive it. Declared. Just as I’m about to sink into the fluffies the engine started to sputter to life. Got a climb to 7000 and played around until I finally got it to run on the fuller tank. Landed and the engine sputtered on rollout.

Mechanic said they drained a full gallon plus from both tanks.
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Draining a gallon from each side makes sense, but I don't understand why the fuel pressure went to zero. Is that something that will happen when water is introduced into the system? :confused2:
 
LongRoadBob said:
We have a jerry can for this at our club. We never put it back into the tanks.

Just when starting out I was curious and wanted to be sure I could detect water, so I took some tap water and added to the summer fuel in my “GATS” ( I guess it is called. What does that stand for?) and saw clearly how it looks.

But until this thread I never thought about the whole GATS container having only water. Seemed clear to me (and others mention here too) that there could be discoloration on the container. I believe ours in fact are also. In addition if the first sump point contains fuel, after that I think the container is going to smell like avgas so subsequent smell tests are less reliable, and also the nose gets less sensitive.

I liked the tip about dipping a finger in there and rubbing together. That might be something to try.
Other than that, the only think I can think of is if you have a water bottle with you, add it to the glass to see that it is different than the contents. Some sort of litmus like indicator that would show a sense of water?
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Not sure what GATS stands for either.

The advantage of GATS is that it has a screen that allows you to pour your sample back into the tank. Water in the fuel will not pass through the screen and will be left behind. I did see in the attached instructions that the screen relies on the fuel itself to create a barrier for water, so I am not sure what happens if you try pour water only through the screen.

http://aviagear.com/gats2010.pdf
http://aviagear.com/gats.html#use

I think most visual aids for testing for water rely on there being at least some fuel in the sample so you can see the difference between the two. But if the sample is all water then some of those tricks might not work very well
 
Juliet Hotel said:
This. I've never understood the wisdom of 'if the sample is all clear or if you're not sure, smell it to see if it smells like fuel.' We're talking about a container that has hundreds of samples of fuel run through it and rarely if ever gets washed or scrubbed out. It smells like fuel when there's fuel in it, it smells like fuel when its empty. Unless someone has mixed a bunch of fabreeze with the water in your tanks, you're likely going detect the smell of fuel when you sniff the sample.
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If you don't do it you won't understand. It's easy to smell fresh fuel as the vapors waft off of it, very strong smell as opposed a dry cup. The residual smell of fuel is very faint if you can smell it all and the little bit of av gas left after you dump is gone in minutes through evaporation.

Unfamiliar planes or planes I suspect might have water get a vigorous wing shake before sampling. The sump should be the lowest point in the tank or the point where water should accumulate, but sometimes things happen.
 
Juliet Hotel said:
Draining a gallon from each side makes sense, but I don't understand why the fuel pressure went to zero. Is that something that will happen when water is introduced into the system? :confused2:
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I questioned it as well, I suppose it was simply a sign the engine wasn’t making power and rpms dropped, wasn’t paying too much attention to the tach at that point.
 
General Aviation Test Sampler

Generally Accepted Testing System

Great Accessory To Safety

George Anderson Test Separator

Got Another Tainted Sample

:) HeckifIknow
 
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wanttaja said:
What happened? We'd had a lot of rain, lately, (Seattle, duhh). The fill points for the FBO's underground fuel tanks were in a recessed area with a cover. Water had filled that recessed area, and a bad cap seal let it into the tank. The water-detector on the fuel system only partially worked...that was why the flow rate had been so slow.

Ron Wanttaja
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Since you are from the NorthWest you've undoubtedly known, met, or heard of Wally Olson (RIP) of Evergreen Flying Service............Vancouver, WA.

Wally PURPOSELY kept the bottom 1/3 of his underground fuel full of water. This was to prevent an avgas spill in case of a leak in his tanks.

X9a2ur.jpg

"Thanks to the original unknown photographer"
 
Over the weekend I went to talk to the mechanic. He said he drained over 16 ounces of water out of the tank and got water out of the carb. I'm flying it back to my home airport this week which will be a nice short flight to just get the jitters out from the experience. I'm planning a longer cross country this weekend and won't make it my first flight after all this.

The mechanic threw in a "free" gift of a mason jar for me. I sumped with the new/clean mason jar and you can so easily see ANY non-fuel bubbles stick to the glass walls/bottom. Not that there was anything significant anymore, but tiny water bubbles were there in the first sample. He tossed the entire sample from the jar and said "Avgas isn't cheap, but your life is worth a lot more."

I have a new GATS jar and a mason jar now. My previous plastic fuel catcher sure enough is dyed blue when completely dry.

PSA: if you haven't done so already, please take a look at your dry fuel catcher to make sure it's clear when empty. If it's dyed at all, replace it asap! Further, go ahead and have a second new one on hand for the day you realize it's dyed blue and can stop using it immediately.
 
Thank you for not being too proud to share... I think some real wisdom was discussed on this topic...
 
Well it's just such a simple mistake but wow is it dangerous. I've never taken off without sumping thinking that's all I need to do to avoid water in the thanks. As long as I do it, that's something I'll never have to worry about, right?

I was wrong and I don't want anybody else to have the same experience.
 
AU_James said:
Well it's just such a simple mistake but wow is it dangerous. I've never taken off without sumping thinking that's all I need to do to avoid water in the thanks. As long as I do it, that's something I'll never have to worry about, right?

I was wrong and I don't want anybody else to have the same experience.
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I had an experience Monday that has me thinking similar things- no engine trouble but I blew a tire on landing, nice landing too wasn’t hard. Broke the valve stem... I swear the tires looked inflated well during preflight, tire was2 years old and not worn... It ended fine but in a tailwheel plane had it deflated faster or I was landing faster like in a wheel landing- no amount of rudder or opposite brake would have stopped a ground loop. I was lucky did t even notice it till just over taxi speed. I am worried Tire was soft and I gave it a cursory glance and missed it... idk for sure but has me wondering... I intend to hang the busted valve stem from my hanger door like mistletoe to remind me to always always always preflight like someone lives you...
 
Wow Bob L, I’m familiar with your engine cratering drama from another forum. Now this? You’re either the luckiest or unluckiest Pilot around. From what I can tell it was good piloting that overcame bad luck on both occasions.
 
Matthew said:
The advantage of GATS is that it has a screen that allows you to pour your sample back into the tank. Water in the fuel will not pass through the screen and will be left behind.
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The Gats jar fuel sampler says it detects Jet A in Avgas, how does it do that?

The GATS Jar Fuel Tester uses the difference in the rate of evaporation between AVGAS and Heavier than AVGAS fuels to test for Jet fuel as a contaminant. The process is quick, simple, and once mastered is quite reliable. Immediately after the samples have been collected and examined and while the screen is still covered in fuel, blow gently and indirectly on the screen with your mouth from at least a foot away and observe the evaporation of the AVGAS from between the strands of the mesh. The AVGAS will evaporate quickly and continuously until it is gone from all but a few screen cells. If there is Jet fuel or another heavier than AVGAS fuel present a delay will be observed in the overall evaporation of the fuel clinging to the screen with a significant number of screen cells still containing fuel after the initial surge of evaporation. After a short interlude the remaining cells will begin to clear of fuel as the gentle air flow of breath over the mesh continues. This is the contaminating fuel evaporating from a slightly elevated temperature. The two different rates of evaporation is somewhat subtle and care must be taken not to overwhelm the process by blowing too hard on the screen. Once mastered, one should be able to detect Jet fuel contamination to as little as 5%.
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