Was I expecting TOO much??

pookies

pookies

Pre-takeoff checklist
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pookies
I am really upset with the series of events that took place today at the airport with the flight school. I want to write the owner to complain, but I want to make sure that I am not overreacting.


I'm gonna start the story off a little earlier, so I can set the mood I was in at the time.

I was scheduled to fly today and I was gonna bring my cousin. I was really excited about all of it cause this would be my first time up as a PP and the first time having a passenger (except Steves plane). I call my cousin to remind her that she is riding today. She had to cancel, cause she got stuck babysitting. I really wanted to bring a passenger up and she is the only one of my friends and family that will go up with me. I was really bummed out by this. I figured that when I got to the airport and went flying I would feel alot better.

When I got to the airport and to the flight school. They were closed. The door was locked and no one was inside. So, I walked around to the other side and went into the FBO. I asked the desk lady if she knew if any of the flight instructors were around. She didn't have a clue. One of the line boys pointed out one of the instructors preflighting the Twin Star. So, I walked out that way and when I got there he was already in the plane, but had not started it. There were people standing by the plane taking pictures and I inquired if one of the flight instuctors were in the plane. The lady said "Yes" and said that was her son and he was taking friends and family, that were out of town, up for a small tour. By that time, the plane had already been started. I was quite annoyed at this moment.

So, I went back toward the FBO and saw the line boy again. I asked if they kept the keys for the planes at the desk in the FBO and he said he didn't know. I walked to the side door of the flight school and peeked in the window to see if any one was there and to see if the book for the airplane I was renting wasin the slot. It was not. Being highly aggravated, I went back the FBO and asked the desk lady if she had the keys for 341SP, that I was scheduled to rent it for 5:30PM. She did, but had no acknowledgement of anyone renting the plane. She gave me the keys anyways. I kinda got more annoyed but less annoyed at the same time, but went to the plane to preflight.


Things did not go so well in the beginning. First, I couldn't get the baggage door open with the key. I needed to put the cover in there. I finally got it open. While I was sitting in the cabin, lowering the flaps, the line boy came by to see if I needed help. I shook my head no and gave him a thumbs up. Shouldn't of done that. Nope! Starting my outside preflight, I realized I forgot to lock the baggage door back. I tried and tried, but no luck. It would not lock back. I figured that I would preflight the rest of the plane and get back to it since it was such a minute problem. It was a minute problem, cause when I tried to shut the passenger door, it shut all crooked and weird. I fixed it though, but still had that feeling in the back of my mind. When I got close to finishing up preflighting the plane, the Twin Star instructor wonder boy showed back up. He ramped up and parked about 30 yards away from me. Did he acknowlege me? Nope! He just walked into the FBO and came back with different people and left again. I was extremely livid at this point. I definently was not fit to fly anymore. So, I tied the plane back up and brought the keys back to the FBO and left!

Do I have a legit complaint? Does this kind of thing usually happen? I've rented a plane from my old CFI, without him being there. But, he knew about it and so did the FBO people. I think all that I wanted was some acknowledgement as a customer. Is that too much to ask?
 
Well, don't listen to Richard, as I'm sure he'll defend the FBO.....

That said, I think you have a legitimate gripe. The CFI can't really be "expected" to acknowledge you, since he's probably just one of those CFIs that are there for the hours, but the FBO should have been able to help you.

You mentioned that the plane's doors seemed crooked and the baggage door wouldn't operate properly....could the plane have been in some kind of accident?
 
SkyHog said:
Well, don't listen to Richard, as I'm sure he'll defend the FBO.....

That said, I think you have a legitimate gripe. The CFI can't really be "expected" to acknowledge you, since he's probably just one of those CFIs that are there for the hours, but the FBO should have been able to help you.

You mentioned that the plane's doors seemed crooked and the baggage door wouldn't operate properly....could the plane have been in some kind of accident?
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It's not the FBO, it was the flight school. The insructor that blaintly ignored me worked for the flight school I was renting the plane from. It was the FBO that was helpful. It was the flight school that made me feel unwelcomed, but yet wanted me to spend $123/hr + $8.29/hr fuel surcharge + tax on their plane!
 
pookies said:
It's not the FBO, it was the flight school. The insructor that blaintly ignored me worked for the flight school I was renting the plane from. It was the FBO that was helpful. It was the flight school that made me feel unwelcomed, but yet wanted me to spend $123/hr + $8.29/hr fuel surcharge + tax on their plane!
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My apologies, I'm used to FBO and Flight School being one and the same. In that case, the Flight School should have been more helpful, and the FBO was good. The CFI still can't be "expected" to go beyond his job bounds, as he can always just say "I'm just a CFI." :(
 
Nick, what has you so frosted? Gentle Cooing Div, There There, You'll be Alright Dept is down the hall, 2nd door on your right.

Pookster, why did you get so annoyed? It sounds like it started before you got to the airport (bummed your family couldn't go). Too bad you had problems with the aircraft doors. Are you saying that if you had not gotten so annoyed you would have gone flying?

Happy Birthday anyway.
 
Sorry you had a bad experience... bet you're kind of glad now that your cousin couldn't make it. Another day will be better for flying.
 
Richard said:
Nick, what has you so frosted? Gentle Cooing Div, There There, You'll be Alright Dept is down the hall, 2nd door on your right.

Pookster, why did you get so annoyed? It sounds like it started before you got to the airport (bummed your family couldn't go). Too bad you had problems with the aircraft doors. Are you saying that if you had not gotten so annoyed you would have gone flying?

Happy Birthday anyway.
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No, Richard. I think even if my cousin was there and all this stuff happened, I still would have left! It was just problems from the get go. I'd rather keep them on the ground. If things went smoothly, then yes, I would have flown.
 
Well you can be angry at the Flight School if they didn't have the plane and you infact schedualed it. But you IMHO have no reason to be angry at the CFI You didn't call him, flag him down nothing so why should he walk up to you and do anything.
 
I need to give yall a litle insight how this school is run. The owner does not even live around here. He lives in Atlanta. It is up to the CFI's to run the school and deal with the customers. I scheduled this plane online, without speaking to no one. If this CFI was the only one around, it was his job to just acknowledge me as a paying customer. He saw me go up to his plane the first time. I could not get to him because he started up the plane. When he got back, he could of just made sure that I was who I was! It's just common sense customer service!
 
pookies said:
Do I have a legit complaint? Does this kind of thing usually happen? I've rented a plane from my old CFI, without him being there. But, he knew about it and so did the FBO people. I think all that I wanted was some acknowledgment as a customer. Is that too much to ask?
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Well, it would have been NICE if he would have acknowledged you. But, sometimes other people aren't as nice and as logical as we are. Maybe next time you won't let it keep you from flying, which was your main goal. :)
 
If the CFI truly does run the counter for checking in and out the aircraft, then yeah you probably have a complaint. At least some one should be there to check in and out aircraft.

Now if he is not responsible for that, then I do not feel he did anything wrong. As a CFI, you try and help people when they need it. However you dont want to make people feel every time they come and rent an aircraft, that you want to give them instruction. You want them to have their own privacy. It's a fine line. I usually try and say hi to the renters and if they need something then, they will speak up. If they do not, then I keep going about my business what ever that may be. However I do not check in and out aircraft.
 
I disagre that the CFI should acknowledge you, he was with other people that at that point in time were his customers (family or not). Sure its a business and yes you are a customer but your not the only customer.
Check with you school for there after hours procedures, it may just be a simple misunderstanding. The owner can be on a different planet that shouldn't matter, find a different place to rent from if you don't like the way this place does it.
 
I think I'd just have a talk with whoever is responsible on site. The owner had to give authority to some particular individual. But, who? If that person does not satisfy you with a response then request contact information for the owner.

I can't imagine them not being responsive. They are there to rent these planes and train in them. You can't pay for it if it's just sitting there. I'd think the owner would agree since he probably signed the financial contracts.
 
FLYNDGZ said:
I disagre that the CFI should acknowledge you, he was with other people that at that point in time were his customers (family or not). Sure its a business and yes you are a customer but your not the only customer.
Check with you school for there after hours procedures, it may just be a simple misunderstanding. The owner can be on a different planet that shouldn't matter, find a different place to rent from if you don't like the way this place does it.
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It's ok for my ground school to be interuppted because a customer walks into the school and my CFI was the only one there to help? But it's not ok for a CFI, who is the only one available and giving a tour, to stop and see if my needs are met or to make sure I'm just legit?
 
I did'nt say it was fair that he did not acknowledge you, I was interupted during my training many times too I understand.
It sounds like Gulf Coast has a deal with Million air so pilots can pick up planes when GC is closed, maybe the CFI thought you knew that, maybe
the plane was with MA for reapir. Call and ask your CFI or the chief instructor to clear it up for you this could be a simple mistake, or try Fly Nola maybe they are better.
If you are not satisfied with the answer you get then go to the owner.
 
FLYNDGZ said:
I did'nt say it was fair that he did not acknowledge you, I was interupted during my training many times too I understand.
It sounds like Gulf Coast has a deal with Million air so pilots can pick up planes when GC is closed, maybe the CFI thought you knew that, maybe
the plane was with MA for reapir. Call and ask your CFI or the chief instructor to clear it up for you this could be a simple mistake, or try Fly Nola maybe they are better.
If you are not satisfied with the answer you get then go to the owner.
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I'm pretty sure they do have a deal with Millionair. I have never seen it in writing or verbally told about this. It may be in writing, but I have never seen it. It's just strange how the Millionair people looked at me strange, like they didn't know what was going on, but yet, still hand over the keys. It made me feel uncomfortable, to the fact, they just hand over the keys to anyone! I'm sure it's just a simple misunderstanding. I have learned and have already moved on!
 
All of us have rented at one time or another and most of us have had at least one bad experience. ex. reserving a plane only to find out when you arrive at the airport that someone else has it.

It sounds like you were in a bad mood before you got there and your day got even worse when no one coddled you when you arrived.

p.s. the word is "because", not "cause".
 
Renting airplanes isn't a good business to begin with, and 99% of the people who do hate their customers for tearing up their airplanes on a daily basis. Rental places employ CFIs who work for starvation wages and have no interest in customer service for anyone but their immediate students, and not much even for them.

Horrible customer service is the norm in General Aviation. Get used to it.

A joint ownership arrangement, partnership or ownership club, is the ONLY way for a person of average means to obtain access to well maintained planes at reasonable rates.

Rent to get your tickets and then decide if you want to continue flying. If you do, get some ownership or accept crappy service and marginal rental airplanes.
 
Real-life FBOs, like Millionair, can turn a good profit by selling lots of fuel and secondary services to a fast-moving stream of bizjets. It's not that uncommon to trip over a "jet center" FBO with excellent service.

Flight training and little plane rental, on the other hand, is a low margin business. In most cases, it's not worth the financial investment to improve service.

When dealing with these guys, I find an adjustment in perspective is needed. For instance, try to imagine that the flight school is operated by a small animal, like cats or squirrels. Now, if your school was run by squirrels, you would probably lower your expectations a bit. You'd probably begin to arrive earlier at the airport, expecting that there will be some confusion. You might find yourself communicating with the employees more, doing a lot of verification, like calling ahead and asking if somebody will be there, if you're planning to arrive later than usual business hours. You might do a lot more reminding of the employee's ("hey, I'm coming in at 5:30pm, can you leave the keys out for me?") Should you have to do this? Of course not, but what do you expect? The whole place is run by squirrels and chipmunks (the office is very cliquey, BTW)!

And when they let you down, should you let it get to you? No, you kind of expect this to happen every now and then. When you frequent a business staffed by squirrels, you just have to be realistic in your expectations.
-harry
 
pookies said:
I need to give yall a litle insight how this school is run. The owner does not even live around here. He lives in Atlanta. It is up to the CFI's to run the school and deal with the customers.
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Have you ever spoken with the owner? Does he seem interested in the workings of the flight school? The reason I ask is that my first and only job as a full time flight instructor was working for an airline pilot who set up a flying club because it sounded cool and he thought he could use it as at tax shelter. That may be an unfair statement but it was my take on the situation, especially being aware of some of the financial dealings. He provided no supervision and expected the place to run itself. He may have known how to fly an airplane but he was clueless about business. If we had some kind of a problem he was almost impossible to contact. This was before the era of cell phones and e-mail. I was going to give him two weeks notice when I quit but I couldn't get in touch with him so he ended up with only a few days notice. They were in business for only a few months afterwards.

Anyway, I think a number of things could be going on with bad customer service. Maybe the owner is not aware of what is happening. Or maybe he can't be bothered. If there is no leadership, meaning someone telling the employees what is expected of them, then it's hard to blame the CFIs, especially if they are young and underpaid and have had no prior customer service experience. I'm not sure if this was just an isolated event or something more chronic. If it is something that happens frequently I would either talk to the owner or the person in charge or go somewhere else. I know this is more easily said than done when there are a limited number of rental places though.
 
I don't know that you're expecting too much but it's entirely possible that you're expecting to different from what reality may be. From what you've written, it's possible that you might not be up to speed on exactly how certain situations are typically handled with this particular school. The owner is absent and there is no counter help to speak of.

It's entirely possible that the CFI's only established duty to you as a customer is to check the online schedule and make sure the books for any planes which are booked for when he won't be there are put the behind the FBO counter. The standard practice may then be for you to walk to the FBO counter, and tell them you have Nxxxx booked. At which point, they hand you the keys and you're on your own. Keep in mind I'm not saying this is the case, I'm saying it could be the case. Before I complained to the owner, I would find out exactly how the situation you encountered is meant to be handled.

Lot's of Mom and Pop FBO/flightschools operate on the honor system. The place I'm renting from now is only in the office four days a week. When I first went there, I was told that once they got to know me, they'd give me the combination to the lock on the office door and I'd be able let myself in anytime I wanted to rent an airplane. As it turned out, them 'getting to know me' involved nothing more than my taking a check flight and writing them a big fat check to fill my account with money. Of course I was also taught how where to write my my hours down and how to identify if a plane was down for MX, etc.

In a nutshell what I'm saying is, the only complaint you really have right now is that no one told you how they handle renting planes during times when no one is in the office. Depending what that policy is, you might have additional complaints or you might not. Call the owner or whoever is in charge and voice your first complaint then determine if you have a second complaint. In addition, consider looking for other renting options. Welcome to world of renting. It ain't always what it's cracked up to be.
 
I don't want to be mean. There might be a business problem with no one being at the desk. That's it though. You did get the keys so that's all good.

You had problems with the lock on the baggage door. If you do not unlock it properly you will have this problem. Look at the latch, it's always obvious what to do. You probably locked the door after you opened it when you were removing the keys. I've done this before.

As a private pilot, you are independent now. The last thing I want when I'm renting an airplane is to have one of their instructors try to help me. If I want help--I'll get help. Otherwise leave me alone.

Get out there and do some flying SOLO now that you've got your ticket. If you don't--why become a private pilot? It sounds to me like you are uncomfortable right now. With time, things will improve.

I hope I'm not too harsh. My words can come out that way. But it sounds to me like you need to get some solo confidence built up.
 
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JimNtexas said:
Horrible customer service is the norm in General Aviation. Get used to it.
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While it's true that "customer service" is a joke at many FBOs, there are plenty that attempt to treat their customers with the respect they deserve (that can go both ways!).

And I suspect that many of the operators with lousy attitudes WRT customers aren't even aware how this can hurt their business. My first reaction to any significant issue with an FBO would be to bring it to the attention of the manager and ask him/her to explain what went wrong and how it's going to be "fixed". If they're not interested or try to blow it off with lip service, I'm out the door and willing to pass on my (low) opinion of that shop. If they make a decent effort to rectify the problem I'm satisfied.

Pookie, I think the root of your frustration is that there's a considerable lack of understanding WRT how rentals are handled at this FBO. That this information void exists is likely the fault of the FBO, but still something you might attempt to resolve by finding and communicating with the person in charge. Clearly your expectations aren't being met, but the "problem" may lie with your expectations. In your shoes, I'd want to know how the owner and/or manager expects rentals to be handled when the CFIs are busy with other customers. IMO it shouldn't be SOP for the instructors to handle both instruction and manning the desk at the same time since neither function can tolerate the lengthy absences/distractions the other normally generates.

IOW, I don't think that you should feel slighted by the CFI's lack of interest in your plight, but rather by the fact that no one was apparently "scheduled" to man the rental desk. And your CFI shouldn't be called away to handle other customers in the middle of your lessons either.
 
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