Was followed today.

wrbix said:
There’s a good bit of interesting (?disturbing) conversation here, but what I find disturbing is those here who have cute names for their firearms.
I carry, but I don’t name my tools.
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Only one of mine has a name, bestowed by my wife.
 
SkyDog58 said:
For wasting the cop’s and my time with her paranoia. I deserved benefit of the doubt because I broke no law and did nothing wrong.
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Sorry, but no, you didn't deserve the benefit of the doubt. The cop was doing his job and rightfully so. If I had a daughter that was being followed by an older man after he blew his horn at her and then followed her at each turn she made, especially near a residential area, I would certainly want a cop to detain the individual and determine what's going on.

That woman had every right to question it, as she wouldn't have known your intent. For all she knew, you were following her home and ready to hold her at gunpoint. These days you just don't know. Comb through the news every now and then and you'll hear of things like that happening, except the ending wasn't quite so pleasant. It's safe to say that she definitely wasn't out of her mind to question it.
 
DaleB said:
Well, it hasn't happened to us here in Upper Suburbia, at least not on the roads near our house. When we lived in urban Cleveland, though, or Lawton (even the cops call it Lawless), OK, that's a different story. I was working as a mainframe computer tech in Cleveland, and there were areas where I wouldn't go unarmed, period. The house down the street from us was shot up one night; cops were policing up .223 brass all over the street. And this was 1985 or '86.

And it's not like my wife or I go looking for trouble. We try to avoid it as much as possible. The only place I won't back down or turn and run is my own house. And even the really nice neighborhoods aren't havens any more. The scumbags have figured out there isn't anything worth stealing in their own little slice of paradise, so they come out to our part of town. We've had cars stolen, houses broken into, and a bank less than a block from my house robbed.
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Amazing,

I never lock my car. Only lock my house at night when going to bed. I once had an iPad removed from my vehicle while at the grocery store or so I assume as The car was the last place I remember seeing it.
 
Morgan3820 said:
Amazing,

I never lock my car. Only lock my house at night when going to bed. I once had an iPad removed from my vehicle while at the grocery store or so I assume as The car was the last place I remember seeing it.
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Good for you. Hope it isn't too disturbing when the thieves venture out that far from whatever little hellhole they live in. If you lived here, in a nice, clean, upper middle class suburb of a pretty average middle America city, your stuff would be gone. Our cars get locked up tight every night. I've had mine gone through and stuff stolen a couple of times when we forgot. At our last place, thieves got into my company car one night and literally crawled over tens of thousands of dollars in tools and computer parts to steal my cheap radar detector (this was the 90s) that might have brought $10 at a pawn shop. Our neighbor had his car stolen out of his garage one night -- forgot to put the door down and it was gone. We regularly see obviously out of place vehicles cruising slowly around the neighborhood. You can usually tell the difference between someone looking for an address, someone checking out the neighborhood to see if they want to move here, and someone looking for stuff to steal. I try to be helpful and offer directions. I know the ones that speed off will be back later.
 
A few thoughts. I remember back in the 80’s, my parents started keeping the cars locked, not so much about theft, but to keep drunks from deciding it was a good place to sleep, and finding vomit in the car the next day. And if the sun was up, and anyone was home, the front and back doors were rarely locked. Good luck finding someplace you, or your whole household feel comfortable doing that today, without keeping considerable distance to your neighbors. My parents are back to that at their weekend place, but the nearest neighbor is about a half mile away, and they are on a dead end road.

As for brandishing, in many jurisdictions, it is considered to be use of force, similar to, or more severe than punching someone. So there exist some narrow areas where it is legal to brandish, but not to shoot. But absent justification to use force, brandishing a weapon can be assault, even if you never touch them, and never point it at them.

I’m all for expanding gun rights, but at times I wish rest of us were a bit more responsible with our language around the whole subject. No need to make statements that make others think more restrictions are needed.
 
Fallsrider said:
I have a 12-year-old son with autism. Evading and escape would almost never be possible when I am out in public with him. I'll have to take my stand against anyone who tries to cause us harm. If I have the opportunity to fight back, that's better than waiting to see if they are going to harm us.
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If you’re “fighting back” before “waiting to see if they are going to harm us” then you’re committing assault. Just an FYI. ;)
 
Juliet Hotel said:
Carrying a gun ain't gonna stop me from getting robbed. Others might be willing to shoot a man because he wants the $40 they've got in their wallet but I'm not. Carrying or not, if you want to take my wallet you can have it, I'm not going to shoot anyone over that.
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I carry and I’ll give up the $40 as well. The weapon is to protect my life. Not my crap.
 
SkyDog58 said:
For wasting the cop’s and my time with her paranoia. I deserved benefit of the doubt because I broke no law and did nothing wrong.
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You deserve it but she doesn’t? You don’t sound like a very good neighbor.
 
I don’t lock my airplane. There are no doors on my Jeep to lock. I don’t own a gun. I’m gonna die! Someone, quick- call the cops to save me from myself. They’ll probably shoot me when I answer the door, if I’m even home. Maybe I got human (or inhuman?) trafficked. [If I flip off my human traffickers is that considered road rage? What if I brandish my “weapon”?] Thank God there aren’t any cops in the town where I live. Nearest fuzz is about 1/2 hour away at high speed, and that’s still too close. Ice Cube had a point.
 
So, a woman almost hits my car with hers, I hit my horn as practically anyone would do, I then proceed to drive home and I am a suspicious acting person. Really?

She was the only one of the two of us who did something wrong, reckless driving. I did nothing wrong.

So when did we become a people that accept and even condone the police detaining someone just on the unsubstantiated accusations of another. Yeah, I know. It happened a long time ago. I’m just surprised that so many condone it. Funny thing is, some of the folks condoning it on here are the same folks who go on anti government rants at times. Amazing.

Also the bigoted nature of some of the posts regarding Hispanics is disgusting. But I guess you gotta buy into your dear leader’s vitriol.
 
Lachlan said:
If you’re “fighting back” before “waiting to see if they are going to harm us” then you’re committing assault. Just an FYI. ;)
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Not necessarily in my state. Disparity of force is taken into account in self-defense. A man with a special needs son would have a difficult time defending both against two or three hoodlums surrounding him and appearing to be ready to attack him. You just have to believe there is a threat of grave bodily harm or death in that case. But you would have to be able to articulate that very well to law enforcement, and possibly a court later.

As is the case in any of these scenarios, there is always the balance of how far you're willing to go before attempting to defend yourself, versus waiting too long and too late. And the difference between the two can be a split second.

I hope none of us ever have to find out. I will be very happy to go to my grave never having had to find out.
 
SkyDog58 said:
So, a woman almost hits my car with hers, I hit my horn as practically anyone would do, I then proceed to drive home and I am a suspicious acting person. Really?

She was the only one of the two of us who did something wrong, reckless driving. I did nothing wrong.

So when did we become a people that accept and even condone the police detaining someone just on the unsubstantiated accusations of another. Yeah, I know. It happened a long time ago. I’m just surprised that so many condone it. Funny thing is, some of the folks condoning it on here are the same folks who go on anti government rants at times. Amazing.

Also the bigoted nature of some of the posts regarding Hispanics is disgusting. But I guess you gotta buy into your dear leader’s vitriol.
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It’s called the compromise of living in a civilized society. Most folks have learned to adapt to minor inconveniences because they know it serves a larger purpose. Demanding benefit of the doubt for yourself but denying it for your neighbor, then assuming moral superiority over by others scolding them for their descriptive posts is demonstrating the Rouseauian disconnect between principles and practice.

It helps to understand the proper function of government so that you aren’t so easily confused by people who support govt in one instance but not another. Advocating for government to function according its purpose may look like an anti-govt rant to someone who wants government for the wrong reasons, or who fails to understand that two things similar are not necessarily the same.
 
Cooter said:
It’s called the compromise of living in a civilized society. Most folks have learned to adapt to minor inconveniences because they know it serves a larger purpose. Demanding benefit of the doubt for yourself but denying it for your neighbor, then assuming moral superiority over by others scolding them for their descriptive posts is demonstrating the Rouseauian disconnect between principles and practice.

It helps to understand the proper function of government so that you aren’t so easily confused by people who support govt in one instance but not another. Advocating for government to function according its purpose may look like an anti-govt rant to someone who wants government for the wrong reasons, or who fails to understand that two things similar are not necessarily the same.
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That is a very erudite rejoinder.
 
DaleB said:
Good for you. Hope it isn't too disturbing when the thieves venture out that far from whatever little hellhole they live in. If you lived here, in a nice, clean, upper middle class suburb of a pretty average middle America city, your stuff would be gone. Our cars get locked up tight every night. I've had mine gone through and stuff stolen a couple of times when we forgot. At our last place, thieves got into my company car one night and literally crawled over tens of thousands of dollars in tools and computer parts to steal my cheap radar detector (this was the 90s) that might have brought $10 at a pawn shop. Our neighbor had his car stolen out of his garage one night -- forgot to put the door down and it was gone. We regularly see obviously out of place vehicles cruising slowly around the neighborhood. You can usually tell the difference between someone looking for an address, someone checking out the neighborhood to see if they want to move here, and someone looking for stuff to steal. I try to be helpful and offer directions. I know the ones that speed off will be back later.
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One of the benefits of living in a small, non-diverse community.
 
Morgan3820 said:
One of the benefits of living in a small, non-diverse community.
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I suppose it depends. My in-laws live in a tiny Iowa farm town of a few hundred people. It's about as small and non-diverse as you can get and still speak English. The meth heads are starting to become problematic over in their neck of the woods. I'm told that the availability of anhydrous ammonia in farm country is a big draw for criminals. Too bad there aren't more unfortunate mishaps while using it, I guess.
 
If you live in an area with ANY homeless there will be night visitors checking every car door and gate within a bikes ride distance.
The other night coming home at around 2:30am driving through town, there must have been at least 20 of these derelicts everywhere riding around on bikes made for a 10 year old. To damn dumb to steal a 10 speed.
They seem to come out at night like cockroaches and wonder the town looking for something to steal. The majority of them have completely fried what little brain they had which makes them totally unpredictable.
 
I keep firearms readily accessible at home, I've in fact had to arm myself and run out with a flashlight multiple times just this year. Darn raccoons just won't leave the chicken coop alone.

As far as the human variety of predator is concerned I'm not really too worried, I don't live in an area where that's a big problem and even then my house is invisible from the road, up a driveway most people think is just the entrance to a field on a rarely traveled road. I can hear you coming literally from a mile away and so can the dogs. I don't lock anything if I'm home... or even if I'm only going to be gone for a couple of hours. No point really, in the off chance someone did find their way up here the big glass patio door isn't going to stop anyone bold enough to have come that far.

So far in my mid-30s I've never had good reason to think anyone was going to do me harm. That said I always get a bit skittish when I got into major metro areas- as any good country boy knows that's where all the gangs live and the murders happen. So I finally got my concealed carry permit. I don't expect to ever use it and I've got no desire to hurt anyone but I feel a little better having the option should I ever have such a need.
 
Ryanb said:
These days you just don't know. Comb through the news every now and then and you'll hear of things like that happening, except the ending wasn't quite so pleasant.
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No personal offense intended, but I am always somewhat confused by the "these days" references to the increasing danger of crime.

By nearly every metric from every reputable source, crime has plummeted over the last decades.

Facebook / internet perception -- not so much.

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/01/03/5-facts-about-crime-in-the-u-s/
FT_19.01.03_CrimeTrends1.png
 
El Paso pilot, your stats are correct, unfortunately I grew up in a small town which has become a bedroom community to the bay area. We didn't get the cream of the crop from there and crime has risen significantly. I know, I know so has the population which is responsible for some but not all.
 
Juliet Hotel said:
Carrying a gun ain't gonna stop me from getting robbed. Others might be willing to shoot a man because he wants the $40 they've got in their wallet but I'm not. Carrying or not, if you want to take my wallet you can have it, I'm not going to shoot anyone over that.
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You have the rights only to what your willing to defend, whether your car, money, home, and even family, that's how I was raised, my dad was a biker, worked for big company, had multitude of death threats, carried 3 guns until day he died, it was not uncommon to carry the daily deposits home of $30k-$50k, he thought was safer to go to vehicle at night in parking garage, than to walk farther on deserted downtown city streets at night to make a deposit, & then to his car. I was trained as a child, & was carrying 1-2 guns from age 6 on, as he said, no one would expect a kid to be armed to defend if situation came up, I was taught to attack, my first instinct is to go after them, I never back down. I grew up in 2 different areas, 1 big city where my dad worked, then surburb in small town, that is where many of my incidents have happened, drugs are horrible there, & to show an example in 2017 the CDC named that area the highest OPIOID prescribed there per person than anywhere else in all the USA, I can prove that, I drive a distance to work, so I can have a rural home, and stay away from majority of the mess, my driveway almost isn't passable by normal cars, unless you know how to ride the "waves" of a rutted out driveway, & is a major hike up the side of a mountain, in winter I hike the 1/2 mile up as even my truck cant get up in snow, to a mountain top home hidden inside a forest. my other home is completely past a dead end road, them to a washed out gravel bed, then doubling back through woods to a secluded home with a backyard with 10 mile views, this one belonged to my best friend of 37 years, & we bought our homes almost the same time, but he had a heart attack & passed away & I ended up with a second home, at neither place do I feel the need to lock doors, & only need a gun for wild animals, and poisonous snakes.

not far from the bad area is a worse area, it made the cover of US News & World reports 2 times for a population of under 1,000 & drugs & murders there, I also have 15 acres of land 4 miles by road from that area. but my land is close to 3/4 mile off the road

everyone saying not needed a gun, or never needed it, I wish I could say, but I can say I have had guns pulled on me or brandished at me many time in my life, even been stabbed in second grade for being white, by another second grader, & for more examples even when me & 2 friends had "movie" night every Friday, and we rotated which home we went to, & 1 of us would rent 3 movies & we all would watch on Friday nights, while he was unlocking door to his home, in that bad area, car coming down road decided to scare us, firing a clip over roof of the house, maybe I should have fired, I had guy in my sights, but I saw gun was upwards sky & not lower. what would a officer do if someone was shooting over the couple houses at that section of road where he was walking into his or someone elses home?
 
Juliet Hotel said:
Well I've always been of the mind that if you carry concealed, you never pull it out just to show it off. If it comes out, it gets used or it doesn't come out. Which is why I don't carry.
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You do have to be ready to use it at those distances, yes. Whether you’ll need to is up to Mr. criminal.
 
Juliet Hotel said:
Well I've always been of the mind that if you carry concealed, you never pull it out just to show it off. If it comes out, it gets used or it doesn't come out. Which is why I don't carry.
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Why would you need to show it off? The whole purpose is to carry it without other people knowing you have it, hence the meaning ‘concealed’. You carry for self protection and to protect others in the event that harm comes your way. That’s it.
 
tonight I was thinking about this thread, I more or less followed someone 60 miles across 3 counties, & numerous back roads, from a job I had worked out of town today, but this was all by fluke, I noticed license plate when they passed as it had a confederate general pic on it, but we passed each other a few times when was on 4 lane road, never thinking much about it, then hit secondary roads, side roads off them to save miles, then to a primary secondary back road, then several more back roads to a main road, they had to know area, as taking these roads saved 20 miles, versus taking all the main roads, but they were still in front of me several car lengths when I turned onto my road, no police were called, no horn blowing, nothing, but very unusual to see same car traveling same direction & using same back roads that many miles, so if person had been paranoid they may had speeded up, we traveled 3-5 mph under the speed limit, which is my normal, if had sped up would have lost me, if turned any of some other roads which still would get you there, but not as direct as way we headed, I wouldn't have traveled, I was exhausted & wanted to get home. but how would anyone here respond to seeing same car around 60 miles? a biker driving with a full beard, & his wife, compact car, but we did pass them a few times just due to traffic & mountains & trucks, but they passed back shortly each time.
 
ElPaso Pilot said:
No personal offense intended, but I am always somewhat confused by the "these days" references to the increasing danger of crime.

By nearly every metric from every reputable source, crime has plummeted over the last decades.

Facebook / internet perception -- not so much.

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/01/03/5-facts-about-crime-in-the-u-s/
FT_19.01.03_CrimeTrends1.png
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This data is very distorted due to the absurdly high numbers of shootings and murders the crack-wars of the late 80s and early 90s racked up. Most of that was concentrated to a small number of zip codes, in terms of geography it was limited to single digit percentages of the country. If I look at the crime data for the suburban community outside of DC where I live, over the same time violent crime has indeed gone through the roof (most of it easily attributable to the move of the troublemakers from DC first into the inner ring burbs and now into the exurban area).

The other place I have called home for the past 15 years is Fargo, ND. When I came here, the only penetrating trauma we saw at the hospital were farming accidents. A year would pass without a gunshot wound, maybe a stabbing or two that got flown in from the indian reservation. Homicides used to be a once a year event, there were years where the number was zero. Over the last 15 years, the town has gotten wealthier but also undergone some demographic change. So this year we are up to 5 intentional homicides in august and along with the new population we have imported chicago staples like drive-bys and car-jackings. It's still Mayberry compared with most other places in the country, but it has certainly changed.

So, yes, the global numbers are what they are. But just like 'average income' or 'average tax rate', they dont mean much for me and my familiy. For the communities that matter to me (where I live and work), the numbers are definitely up and nobody is willing to do a damn thing about it.
 
old_biker said:
but very unusual to see same car traveling same direction & using same back roads that many miles, so if person had been paranoid they may had speeded up, we traveled 3-5 mph under the speed limit, which is my normal, if had sped up would have lost me, if turned any of some other roads which still would get you there, but not as direct as way we headed, I wouldn't have traveled, I was exhausted & wanted to get home. but how would anyone here respond to seeing same car around 60 miles? a biker driving with a full beard, & his wife, compact car, but we did pass them a few times just due to traffic & mountains & trucks, but they passed back shortly each time.
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Did you use a GPS app ?
 
weilke said:
It's still Mayberry compared with most other places in the country, but it has certainly changed. QUOTE]

well Mayberry has changed a lot over the years, too much commercialization, biggest news today was cracking a 1980 cold case murder, www.mtairynews.com there are many better areas within reasonable driving distance to Mayberry, with safer streets, unless your referencing the TV series? I am referencing the real area that the show was modeled after. shame what has happened, but most outsiders don't see it. but still a lot better than where I grew up.
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old_biker said:
tonight I was thinking about this thread, I more or less followed someone 60 miles across 3 counties, & numerous back roads, from a job I had worked out of town today, but this was all by fluke, I noticed license plate when they passed as it had a confederate general pic on it, but we passed each other a few times when was on 4 lane road, never thinking much about it, then hit secondary roads, side roads off them to save miles, then to a primary secondary back road, then several more back roads to a main road, they had to know area, as taking these roads saved 20 miles, versus taking all the main roads, but they were still in front of me several car lengths when I turned onto my road, no police were called, no horn blowing, nothing, but very unusual to see same car traveling same direction & using same back roads that many miles, so if person had been paranoid they may had speeded up, we traveled 3-5 mph under the speed limit, which is my normal, if had sped up would have lost me, if turned any of some other roads which still would get you there, but not as direct as way we headed, I wouldn't have traveled, I was exhausted & wanted to get home. but how would anyone here respond to seeing same car around 60 miles? a biker driving with a full beard, & his wife, compact car, but we did pass them a few times just due to traffic & mountains & trucks, but they passed back shortly each time.
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If the trip had started off with some type of 'confrontation' you both would have had a different perspective about the event.

I've followed and been followed many miles by people going the same direction as me. Never thought anything of it. I follow people on the highway all the time if they're going my speed to use them as a buffer for radar. :) But if before that occurred, if something had 'happened' between us, then my perspective would have been very different if I'd been followed for 5 miles, 30 or 60 miles. The longer it went the more suspicious I would become, just because of that qualifying event.
 
old_biker said:
well Mayberry has changed a lot over the years, too much commercialization, biggest news today was cracking a 1980 cold case murder, www.mtairynews.com there are many better areas within reasonable driving distance to Mayberry, with safer streets, unless your referencing the TV series? I am referencing the real area that the show was modeled after. shame what has happened, but most outsiders don't see it. but still a lot better than where I grew up.
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Mayberry as the fictional TV show place.
 
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