Wanna Learn to Fly, Am I too big?

I just posted but it didn't go through? maybe because I attached a pic and had a link?

Anyways, just wanted to update that the airplane I've already been up in with an instructor is a 1981 C172P, N53491. I estimate the front seat with the instructor I've already been up with to be ~650lbs.

Yeah, its cramped, but not too uncomfortable IMO. I was steering the plane around in the air, reaching for trim, throttle, carbheat, taxi-ing around on the ground. I don't feel like the cabin size was preventing me from doing what I needed to do. And yes, the seatbelt did fit. It required lots of suck in and a bit of effort, but it clicked. All the same, does anyone know where I can get a seat belt extender for a C172, just for a little more comfort in the seat? I was googling for one and couldn't find one, only commercial airline seat belt extenders. Or are they all the same?
 
Every airplane is a bit different with weight and balance so you need to use the numbers for that EXACT airplane. But I know there is no way you were within the bounds with your wife, the instructor, and fuel in a 172P.

Talk to the instructor about all this. We all make mistakes and he probably misjudged your weight. I've misjudged someones weight before as well and had to talk to them about it later. I don't guess anymore. I felt terrible.
 
B&T you have gotten good advice here. If you work at it I'm sure you will get to where you want to be. Regarding the W&B you should ask your instructor what the schools policy is on keeping the plane fueled. Some places require that it always be kept to the tabs some full and some have no requirement. While you may require 30 gal of fuel to remain within limits on W&B the last person flying may have put more in the tanks than is acceptable for you to be able to fly or taken a shorter flight than anticipated and left more in the tanks. On a hot day in the summer that could put the kabash on you lesson for the day.

If its a busy flight school that could be a real pain in the butt so just confirm their policy before you start plunking down money. BTW a lot of us pilots who work on loosing weight often think in terms of fuel. Since 100LL weighs 6lbs per gallon every six pounds you loose is another gallon of fuel you can carry.

Finally I think you are in the Cleveland area. I would guess there are a decent number of flight schools near you that might have a larger plane so it might be worth checking out. Best of luck to you on both your battle with the lbs and your flight instruction!
 
At your size, expect the medical examiner to ask leading questions about sleep apnea. The FAA is hot on it. Browse through the medical forum here for more info on it.
If you can afford it, buy a Cessna 182 and train in your own aircraft. It's wider and well laid out. Put your own seat belts in it.
For a seat belt extender, you can have one made. You just need a buckle and tip that match what is in the plane. I don't know about the legality aspects of it - have to ask an A&P for that.
 
jnmeade said:
At your size, expect the medical examiner to ask leading questions about sleep apnea. The FAA is hot on it. Browse through the medical forum here for more info on it.
If you can afford it, buy a Cessna 182 and train in your own aircraft. It's wider and well laid out. Put your own seat belts in it.
For a seat belt extender, you can have one made. You just need a buckle and tip that match what is in the plane. I don't know about the legality aspects of it - have to ask an A&P for that.
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not to mention if you want to get an instrument rating and possibly a commercial it would likely be cheaper in your own aircraft, especially if a 182 (since there are very very few out there for rent)
 
AdamZ said:
B&T you have gotten good advice here. If you work at it I'm sure you will get to where you want to be. Regarding the W&B you should ask your instructor what the schools policy is on keeping the plane fueled. Some places require that it always be kept to the tabs some full and some have no requirement. While you may require 30 gal of fuel to remain within limits on W&B the last person flying may have put more in the tanks than is acceptable for you to be able to fly or taken a shorter flight than anticipated and left more in the tanks. On a hot day in the summer that could put the kabash on you lesson for the day.

If its a busy flight school that could be a real pain in the butt so just confirm their policy before you start plunking down money. BTW a lot of us pilots who work on loosing weight often think in terms of fuel. Since 100LL weighs 6lbs per gallon every six pounds you loose is another gallon of fuel you can carry.

Finally I think you are in the Cleveland area. I would guess there are a decent number of flight schools near you that might have a larger plane so it might be worth checking out. Best of luck to you on both your battle with the lbs and your flight instruction!
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Yeah thats a good point about the full tanks. I see signs all over saying pilots must call for fuel so I'm guessing they want the planes filled up. I was wondering what they would do if they had to take some out I guess the answer is, they don't until its used up. :(
Yeah I'm in cleveland area.
jnmeade said:
At your size, expect the medical examiner to ask leading questions about sleep apnea. The FAA is hot on it. Browse through the medical forum here for more info on it.
If you can afford it, buy a Cessna 182 and train in your own aircraft. It's wider and well laid out. Put your own seat belts in it.
For a seat belt extender, you can have one made. You just need a buckle and tip that match what is in the plane. I don't know about the legality aspects of it - have to ask an A&P for that.
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No way I can afford buying an airplane let alone everything that goes along with it. Even if I could, I don't think I would right now. At least right now, I don't intend to make a living out of flying. I just wanna be able to visit family or take day trips and have a little more fun doing in it than sitting in a car with 4 wheels on the ground in heavy traffic. Maybe eventually it'll evolve into something more. I could see myself going for an instrument rating next, and then maybe to complex/HP if I could afford it then. At most I could see myself doing part time flight instruction but thats really a long time down the road.
 
B&TPilot said:
Yeah thats a good point about the full tanks. I see signs all over saying pilots must call for fuel so I'm guessing they want the planes filled up. I was wondering what they would do if they had to take some out I guess the answer is, they don't until its used up. :(
Yeah I'm in cleveland area.


No way I can afford buying an airplane let alone everything that goes along with it. Even if I could, I don't think I would right now. At least right now, I don't intend to make a living out of flying. I just wanna be able to visit family or take day trips and have a little more fun doing in it than sitting in a car with 4 wheels on the ground in heavy traffic. Maybe eventually it'll evolve into something more. I could see myself going for an instrument rating next, and then maybe to complex/HP if I could afford it then. At most I could see myself doing part time flight instruction but thats really a long time down the road.
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B&T,

You are getting some really thoughtful and good advice here.

I used to think that being a CFI was completely and totally impossible. Then in the front part of an ASA PreTest study guide I read a write up about being a CFI. I was amazed and encouraged. You need your PPL, then IR, then Commercial then CFI. It is technically possible to accomplish this with 250 hours although I'm expecting to put 400 into it. Also it only takes a third class medical. Go for it!

Doc
 
B&TPilot said:
No way I can afford buying an airplane let alone everything that goes along with it.
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Maybe some of the members from the Cleveland area who are more current than I could offer some comments what what it might cost for rental and lessons in that area.
 
My question is, I'm a big, massive guy. Big, tall, heavy, and solid. Because of my height and thickness, I weigh a lot more than most people guess. I'm wondering, is my size going to be a factor that prevents me from being able to get my pilot private license?
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I'm not quite up to your stature, but I'm close. 6'3" and was 350ish when I started training. I’m up and down too, although not quite as much as you seem to travel.

It can be done.

The instructor hasn't even mentioned my weight as something he would be concerned about, so I'm wondering if its not a problem at all, or if he doesn't actually realize how big I really am.
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It’s probably not a problem at all (depending on the plane). The three of you were probably over gross. I would be sure to tell your instructor your weight before the next flight. Or, better yet, have him show you how to calculate a proper W&B for that plane.

I realize this is a conversation i should have with the instructor, but its embarassing, you know?
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I hear ya. When I had that conversation my instructor was trying to find a tactful way of saying we wouldn’t be training in a 152. :rofl:

Just looking for a ballpark, "I'm fine", "I'm borderline", or "I'm dangerously too big".
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You’re fine. But working on the whole weight thing as you go along wouldn’t be a horrible idea.

Good luck in your journey,

[FONT=&quot]Keith[/FONT]
 
jesse said:
To be honest I never thought about it. I told the student to bring sand and he brought that. I'll find some better balast.
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Why not try barbell weights? You can lie them down flat in the baggage and they don't take up much room.

That's what we use in the PA32 when we need to bring the CG aft.
 
@Papakeith: Thanks for the support! Tomorrow evening I'll talk with the instructor and see if he has time to go over a W&B with me for the 172 he wants me to train in. Hopefully it all works out. I don't want to waste either of our times if it doesn't so going over it sooner rather than later is for the best.
In either case, I've already got myself back "on the wagon" so to speak. I'm controlling my food intake and I'm back on a regular exercise routine. Based on past experiences, I know I can lose about 10lbs a month, maybe a little quicker for the first couple months. Just gotta do it and keep the weight off this time.
jnmeade said:
Maybe some of the members from the Cleveland area who are more current than I could offer some comments what what it might cost for rental and lessons in that area.
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I know it'll cost me around $7K for a PPL in a 172. If you can find me a plane for that much, I'll jump all over it.
IDK, there's more to it than just purchasing a plane, right? There's gotta be stuff like maintenance, overhauls, hanger/storage, insurance, etc.
Just right now, with me not knowing how far I wanna pursue things, it doesn't make sense for me to consider buying my own plane right now. I might decide to only do PPL, or just PPL and IR. I've got student loans and my wife and I haven't bought a house yet. We might have a kid in a year or 2. I have a good career job now (engineer) making good money, I can't see how it would be possible to make a career out of being a pilot right now. I just know I have the means to take lessons towards a PPL and its something I've always wanted to do and my wife's fine with me doing it so I'm going to do it. We'll see if things change down the road. There's a lot of things that have to happen first before buying a plane becomes a realistic goal.
 
Like has been said already, I believe that your size will be more of a determining factor than your weight with your ability to fit comfortably in the aircraft and have full and free movement of the controls because other than a little adjustment in seat position your not going to be able to change that much.

As stated, in a 172 you should be able to load yourself, a decent sized instructor (250 lbs or less), and enough fuel for most any training flight.....

I say go for it!!!:D
 
B&TPilot said:
Anyways, just wanted to update that the airplane I've already been up in with an instructor is a 1981 C172P, N53491. I estimate the front seat with the instructor I've already been up with to be ~650lbs.
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Man I thought it was a real small world. The plane I rent when I need to is a 1981 172P based at KCSV, and when I first saw the N# you posted I thought why is it now in Ohio but the one I rent is N53461... Whew:eek:
 
Papakeith said:
I hear ya. When I had that conversation my instructor was trying to find a tactful way of saying we wouldn’t be training in a 152. :rofl:
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Oh, he didn't have to SAY it... Just have you go try it on for size, and you'd decide to spring for the 172 all on your own! :eek:
 
didn't even get that far. I said, " You don't plan on trying to fit me in a two seater do you?" We chuckled a bit and then set the schedule for my training in the 172
 
So I talked with the instructor last night after ground school. Told him how much I weigh and while he didn't actually run the numbers right then and there, he thinks we'll be ok albiet right at the edge of the envelope. If not, the club does have a 182 available... for $75 more an hour :(. Gonna stick with the 172 for now and keep working on getting my weight down. In the last week or 2, I'm already down 5lbs ;) (first 5 are always the easiest).

The instructor is going out of town for the week, so my first lesson won't be until the 28th - I'll be another 5lbs down by then ;)

flyingcheesehead said:
Izzat you, Pat?
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Nope. Close though, I'm a Matt
 
B&TPilot said:
So I talked with the instructor last night after ground school. Told him how much I weigh and while he didn't actually run the numbers right then and there, he thinks we'll be ok albiet right at the edge of the envelope. If not, the club does have a 182 available... for $75 more an hour :(. Gonna stick with the 172 for now and keep working on getting my weight down. In the last week or 2, I'm already down 5lbs ;) (first 5 are always the easiest).

The instructor is going out of town for the week, so my first lesson won't be until the 28th - I'll be another 5lbs down by then ;)


Nope. Close though, I'm a Matt
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Another Matt here - good luck with the training, keep us all posted on how things are going.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
I'm 6'4" and 300, no problem in most airplanes.

Also, it's more often height that gives me problems than weight. I can't fly a 152 because my legs get into the yoke. I can't fly a Diamond DA20 because I'd have to cut the top 4" of my head off to be able to close the canopy.

But, I don't think I've ever found a 4-seater I couldn't get into, and I've flown several of the new-build LSA's, J-3 Cub, Citabria, etc. etc.

If you were OK in the 172, stick with the 172. When you get into bigger airplanes, they tend to be more expensive, more complex, and it'll take you that much longer (and more $$$) to solo and get your certificate.

Start losing weight, AND keep flying. It'll be great motivation. :yes:
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6'4" 200 and I just flew as DA20 today, all depends on where you are tall.
 
Well, you are a big guy, and you'll need a big plane to get any real use out of aviation so if you aren't ready to be putting out for something like a 206 or heavier, you'll be very restricted in usefulness.
 
tonycondon said:
i find a case of water in the aft baggage and all of our junk as far back as possible gets Leah and I to a nice mid range CG which gives us a couple extra knots over the typical 172 forward edge of the envelope CG with just two people on board.
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Water is a much more sensible ballast than salt....
 
You might as well go straight for cool and get a vintage radial powered plane, something with an R-985 turning the prop. (985 is probably the best aviation engine ever built.) If you have buddies your size, a Beech 18 with a pair of them would be good lol.

As a big guy, you will never regret having too much horsepower. If I was you, I would really want 450hp because I don't like having to live in the bottom corner of the performance envelope. 300hp is the least you should be operating and that is in a high lift/low speed airframe. 450hp gives you some performance to spare when you are hauling 1300lbs. I used to haul 1500lbs pretty comfortably with a 985 an Ag plane.
 
mikea said:
Just buy a Cherokee 235, never worry about weight & balance, and enjoy being setback 75 hours from almost soloing.
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Great plane...buy that pretty much nails the student I had who bought one before he started training....he soloed in my PA28-180 in a few hours.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
You must be long of leg and short of torso... I was seriously 4" too tall for the DA20. :(
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I remember trying to see if we could fit you in the DA-20-C1. We couldn't close the canopy and your leg seriously restricted throttle movement.
 
jesse said:
I remember trying to see if we could fit you in the DA-20-C1. We couldn't close the canopy and your leg seriously restricted throttle movement.
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Wow, I didn't even remember the throttle. :dunno:

But yeah, there was not gonna be any way to get my head in under that canopy. I just barely fit under the DA40's canopy.
 
I just saw this thread... I belong to the same club and rent that plane on a regular basis.

You might look into training in 405SP-- it's a 172S with a 180HP engine which gives you some gross weight increase, and it's not as expensive as the 182. It also tends to be better maintained than some of the hit-or-miss training 172s.
 
bluesky74656 said:
I just saw this thread... I belong to the same club and rent that plane on a regular basis.

You might look into training in 405SP-- it's a 172S with a 180HP engine which gives you some gross weight increase, and it's not as expensive as the 182. It also tends to be better maintained than some of the hit-or-miss training 172s.
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Hey thanks for the info. I have a lesson tomorrow I'll ask the other plane then.

I haven't officially joined the club yet, I wanted to take a couple lessons first just to make sure I'm really going to go through with it and would be able to fly enough to make joining worth it. I'd love to hear your opinion on the club as a member, if there's anything I should know about or ask about, or what other benefits I'd get out of the monthly dues other than the discounted rental rate. Hal mentioned something about club members being covered by insurance but I didn't get a lot of details at the time and since then reading around here I'm learning about things like subrogation and not all insurance policies protect against it? Would the club insurance legally protect me from insurance companies coming after my assets in the event something happens or would I need my own renters insurance policy anyways? Also, the upfront deposit, is that something you eventually get back or is it more a payment than a deposit. Hal can probably give me that answer just figured while I had your ear I could ask you.

Just really new to all this, want to make sure I'm doing things right but not spending money I don't have to. Just want to make sure I'm hearing more than the company line before I join up.
 
By the way guys already down 10lbs since my introductory lesson 3 weeks ago we'll see how much a difference it makes on the seat belt tomorrow ;)
 
Just wanted to let you guys know I got some flying in this weekend. Went out on saturday and Monday. I think I'm going to be just find in the 172P.

Saturday I did the takeoff and then we practiced slow flight once we got to the training area. Monday, I did the takeoff again (MUCH less nervewracking the second time ;) ). Then the instructor had me put on foggles and we did some flying around using the basic instruments, as well as slow flight with the foggles on. Then I took off the foggles and the instructor demo'd a power off stall before I did 2 of them myself, and then 2 power on stalls as well. Then we started back, and I guess I did an assisted landing? I was still controlling the airplane but the instructor was on the controls with me.

Yeah, if I wasn't hooked before, I'm definitely hooked now. Things are going great. Monday was a lot of fun. Instructor seemed very happy with my takeoff, and he was, idk, surprised I guess that we didn't spin when I did my first power on stall. He told me I was no fun :P. I'd been paying attention to him and others in ground school talking about how much right rudder it would take and I guess I got the message b/c I pretty much just planted the right rudder on the floor as we headed into the stall and yeah it went well :)

Anyways, thought you guys would like the update. I've got 2.5hrs on the hobbs so far (includes the introductory flight a few weeks ago) and I'm excited to keep going. I'm going to join the club for discounted member rental rates (break even point is just 3hrs of flying per month) and it includes insurance for after I solo (effectively making the break even point less).

I guess this also means I need to get my medical sooner rather than later at this point. The club provides a list of doctor's in the area, I guess the first thing I should do is call some of them and schedule a consult? Maybe its time to make a thread over in the medical subforum.
 
B&TPilot said:
I guess the first thing I should do is call some of them and schedule a consult? Maybe its time to make a thread over in the medical subforum.
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Yep. It's pretty much that easy.

just say you want a 3rd class medical/student pilot cert (Or if you plan to fly for money just go ahead and get a 2nd, it's like 10 dollars more usually)

it's really really simple and straight forward
 
So, at risk of opening a big can of worms, I'm wondering about headsets. My instructor keeps "reminding" me I need to get one. He is suggesting starting out with SoftComm C-40-10 Red Barons - they sell them at the club where I take lessons for ~$130. He said I can always upgrade to David Clarks after I get my PPL and then use the Red Barons as a spare or for pax.

What do you guys think? Can I do better in the same price range? Can I do "a lot" better for spending "a little" more (definitions of "a lot" and "a little" left open to interpretation for the time being).

Would the Red Barons be OK to let the occasional pax use? I'm talking probably short day or overnight XC flights once a month tops, all other flying would probably be me solo or with an instructor. Would the answer change if the primary pax was your wife?

IDK, just don't really know a thing about picking a good headset, don't know where to research info (besides here), and don't know where to go to try on different headsets and see and feel whats comfortable. I don't really have a budget in mind, but I don't want to have a top of the line headset and then not be able to afford to go flying either :P
 
B&TPilot said:
By the way guys already down 10lbs since my introductory lesson 3 weeks ago we'll see how much a difference it makes on the seat belt tomorrow ;)
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:D Funny how that works out isn't it?

I bought the 235 to get rid of useful load concerns and then lost like 75 pounds at the same time so I wouldn't have had any. I do that - fixing problems that I fixed.
 
elmetal said:
Yep. It's pretty much that easy.

just say you want a 3rd class medical/student pilot cert (Or if you plan to fly for money just go ahead and get a 2nd, it's like 10 dollars more usually)

it's really really simple and straight forward
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I would caution anyone with any health issues set up that appointment as a Consultation for a Class x medical. Make sure you have all your ducks in a row before the exam so you don't risk a deferal or denial unnecessarily.
 
So, at risk of opening a big can of worms, I'm wondering about headsets. My instructor keeps "reminding" me I need to get one. He is suggesting starting out with SoftComm C-40-10 Red Barons - they sell them at the club where I take lessons for ~$130. He said I can always upgrade to David Clarks after I get my PPL and then use the Red Barons as a spare or for pax.
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Good advice IMO. Where you buy is up to you of course.

I started with a pair of SoftComm that cost about $90 (2005 dollars) from Aircraft Spruce or the like. I didn't like them. Hard to hear my CFI, noisy, uncomfortable over the long haul. I quickly upgraded to a fancy ANR headset. Doesn't sound like a positive endorsement, does it?

Then I had to send the new headset in for warranty repairs. The ANR was humming and bumming me out. They replaced the headband of all things...said it was broken and not clamping sufficiently/maintaining a good seal...worked better after that. I was without my nice ears for almost a month though. You can bet I was happy to have the Softcomm then.

The Softcomm has worked every time I've needed it, without fail, which is more than I can say for the fancier ANR models.

Also, students can make dumb mistakes with headsets. I know someone (and no this wasn't me but if I hadn't heard his story I might've done the same once or twice) who, as a student, bought a nice David Clark headset for his training. Not long after (before soloing), he broke the plugs off in the plane, on the ground, before a flight.

It wasn't entirely his fault...the plane manufacturer was "clever" and mounted the intercom jacks in a vertical orientation behind the seats at about shoulder level. The idea was to keep the cord out of the way, and it works with a few caveats. One of them: you must plug in before you get into the aircraft. The cord naturally drapes down onto the seat. If you don't move it off before you get in, your weight compressing the seat pulls on the cord and...snap. He had to break off (ahem) training to mail the headset back to DC for service, and I bet he wished he'd been flying Softcomm when he heard the snap.
 
ziege said:
It wasn't entirely his fault...the plane manufacturer was "clever" and mounted the intercom jacks in a vertical orientation behind the seats at about shoulder level. The idea was to keep the cord out of the way, and it works with a few caveats. One of them: you must plug in before you get into the aircraft. The cord naturally drapes down onto the seat. If you don't move it off before you get in, your weight compressing the seat pulls on the cord and...snap. He had to break off (ahem) training to mail the headset back to DC for service, and I bet he wished he'd been flying Softcomm when he heard the snap.
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David Clark has good service. They probably fixed it for free, or next to free.
 
B&TPilot said:
So, at risk of opening a big can of worms, I'm wondering about headsets. My instructor keeps "reminding" me I need to get one. He is suggesting starting out with SoftComm C-40-10 Red Barons - they sell them at the club where I take lessons for ~$130. He said I can always upgrade to David Clarks after I get my PPL and then use the Red Barons as a spare or for pax.

What do you guys think? Can I do better in the same price range? Can I do "a lot" better for spending "a little" more (definitions of "a lot" and "a little" left open to interpretation for the time being).

Would the Red Barons be OK to let the occasional pax use? I'm talking probably short day or overnight XC flights once a month tops, all other flying would probably be me solo or with an instructor. Would the answer change if the primary pax was your wife?

IDK, just don't really know a thing about picking a good headset, don't know where to research info (besides here), and don't know where to go to try on different headsets and see and feel whats comfortable. I don't really have a budget in mind, but I don't want to have a top of the line headset and then not be able to afford to go flying either :P
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There's two ways of looking at it:

One, you can "save" money by buying a cheap headset now and using it for pax later, or...

Two, you can buy a decent headset now, it'll last you longer, and it'll be something you won't mind giving to pax.

Also, remember that you can't buy back lost hearing later. With that in mind, I'll suggest to you what I suggest every time someone is looking for a budget headset: Go for a reasonably-priced ANR, in particular this one: http://gca.aero/detail/5990/Headsets/GCA/GCA-ANR-II/ It's basically an OEM version of the Lightspeed QFR Solo only with ANR.

Do that, and not only will you do a better job of keeping your hearing, you'll have something that you don't mind giving your wife later on.

If you want to try out a bunch of headsets, ask your CFI to do a cross country flight down to I69 and go to Sporty's. There's probably not a better place to try before you buy, and you're within fairly easy range.
 
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