wanna buy a sail boat

Mistake Not...

Mistake Not...

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Mistake Not...
Took (well, taking, weather set us back a day) a sailing class at a local lake. Holy crap this is fun, and refreshingly devoid of regulation.

What's the trada-a-plane of sailboats?
 
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Don't actually know, but a friend recently got a pretty great deal on one locally by chance. Says we will go out sometime on it. Been years since I have been on a boat!
 
Mistake Not... said:
Took (well, taking, weather set us back a day) a sailing class at a local lake. Holy crap this is fun, and refreshingly devoid of regulation.

What's the trada-a-plane of sailboats?
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But to answer your question, if you're looking at something fairly small, say under 20 feet, Craigslist is a pretty good resource.
 
Sailing is flat out awesome. I took it on a whim, and had fun, and then started asking about slip prices and boat prices and...

Like this: http://www.boattrader.com/listing/2005-catalina-250-103027852

That's the same model (though much more recent) as one of the boats we used in class. This would be a partnership, and one of the partners has a wife and two small kids. A boat like that would be great, I think. Day trips, trips to the camp site, etc.

I kept asking questions, about what maintenance am I allowed to do, etc. Got these funny looks. "Everything?"
 
I have had quite a few sailboats from Lasers to Cats to keel boats....Craigslist will be you best chance for a deal. Boattrrader.com will have nicer boats but you will pay for them.

What kinda sailboat you thinkin? A 13' FJ can cost more than a 27' cabin cruiser.

On the keel boat side...the cheaper they are the more they will cost you. They can be a maintenance nightmare to keep floating and to bring it to a sailable state. The most expensive boat you can get is a free one...no kidding...sailboat parts can be like aviation parts...stupid expensive.
 
We bought our boat off of CraigsList. Boattrader.com (as you found) is also a really good resource, and probably the trade-a-plane of the boat world. A lot of it depends on how much you want to spend and whether you want to buy a boat to try it out based off of what's local and convenient, or whether you have a very specific boat in mind.

As with planes, a real question is what your mission is, and thus how big etc. you want the boat to be, also what features. In our case, we figured our mission to be shorter day trips. Usually we go out on the water for a few hours and then load up and leave. As the kids get older we'll spend more time on the lake, but the real key is no overnights. We bring out food in coolers, etc.

When we bought our boat figured it was a good "all around" boat, a 23' cuddy cabin. We expected we'd keep it for a year or two and then "upgrade" to something that was bigger, more capabilities, or just different capabilities all around. A lot of folks on here said that we would outgrow it in no time and needed to get a kitchen, etc. because we'd decide that we wanted to do overnights, or we should get a bowrider because the cuddy cabin was useless. We're coming up on 3 years since we bought the boat and it's proven to be exactly what we want. We really like the variety of capabilities it has.

So whatever you think you'll do with it, pick a boat that will do that.
 
When I was looking Sailboatlistings.com had the best selection. The interface is a bit frustrating to navigate though.
 
Shawn, it might be better to tell you my experience (like 6 hours logged). I'd like something you could take 3-4 people out on a day trip with. Lakes only, maaaaybe on the tennessee river, if that's realistic. Having bought a plane, I realize I'm at the "I JUST SOLOED! GONNA BUY A PLANE" stage. I have no idea what I need, but I DO know I don't regret paying more for a nice plane and then having no surprise annuals for the last 4 years. I'd rather be sailing instead of working on that damn boat.

Suggestions for something that would be the 172 of sail boats?
 
.....and is there such a thing as a rental market?
 
A few thoughts, from someone who's owned everything from a 16' Hobie up to a 30' cruising sailboat:

1) As others said, beware of cheap sailboats. That said, there are plenty of older boats that, if well maintained, are good options.
2) No matter how you think you'll use it, ALL sailboats are inevitably day sailors. So you can buy a 19' day sailor or a 39' day sailor. Which will cost more to buy and maintain?
3) Inboard engines are a pain in the but. A decent outboard is easier to work on.
4) I've flown more than half my life, and sailed 3/4ths of my life. I can say without a doubt I've scared myself sailing many more times than I have flying.
5) If you get a trailable sailboat, make sure it's small enough to pull with your existing vehicle.
6) Try before you buy, but renting sailboats is not that common, and it's not particularly cheap either
7) Sailboats don't share all that well, unless you're really tight with your partner. It can be done, but boats tend to be more personal than an airplane.
8) Like flying, preventive maintenance is key. Age doesn't make a big difference here; a 12 year old boat that hasn't been maintained is going to require a lot more work than a 25 year old boat maintained by a detail-oriented anal-retentive, introvert.
9)Keep it simple. Hot/cold showers, fancy galleys, etc. mean more systems to maintain and fix. I like my 19' American that I'm sailing right now because it's just fiberglass hull, sails, basic rigging, and a few lines. I can pull it with my 4 cylinder Jeep.
 
When you start getting in to 20+ cruiser range, just rigging and docking the boat starts to become a lot of work. If you're just looking to do day sailing on a lake, I would look for something light enough you can beach and a couple people can lift on to a trailer. Hobies are nice and fit that bill.
 
Mistake Not... said:
I'd like something you could take 3-4 people out on a day trip with. Lakes only, maaaaybe on the tennessee river, if that's realistic.
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Day sailing? Inland lakes? Hard to beat a Flying Scot, plenty to be had at various price points, simple boat, goes decently well in light airs. it's a class boat, so if the racing bug bites, you can race. if something with a cabin is a desire, hard to argue with a Catalina 22 as a starter boat. Again, plenty to choose from. Where on the Tennessee would you be sailing?

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Definitely stick with outboard-power for sanity-sake on a starter sailboat. Catalinas and Hobbies always seem to be popular boats for those just getting into it. I'd suggest scouring boattrader and craigslist to get an idea on pricing and condition. You may even check the local classifieds around the lakes you intend to sail on, often there will be local marinas and owners who are able to provide better knowledge/help on getting into sailing/boating.
 
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Catalina 22 or 25 is a good solid first day sailer. If you want smaller a buccaneer (or similar) 14-18' can haul a couple people.
To me the tail dragged of lower cost boats would be a hobie 16 or 18. fast and fun but will keep you on your toes. nothing like being on the trapeze on an 18 in a good wind
 
Mistake Not... said:
Suggestions for something that would be the 172 of sail boats?
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Cal or Catalina 22-27 range fits you mission and that description, but there are a lot of other options out there as well in that range. Some faster, some more spacious.

As other have said, get an outboard motor and just make sure it has been regularly sailed...just like planes, the longer they sit the faster they rot and harder and more expensive hey are to bring back to life.

My last sailboat was a '73 Cal 25 and it was an awesome booze cruise bay day sailer. I was not gonna win any races but it was a great time on the water.

The smaller you go, the more work and active they are gonna be to sail. My 13' FJ was non stop higher paced sailing where the Cal 25 was kick back with a beer in my hand cruiser...while my Hobie Cat 16 was just an adventure to try and keep it upright on a windy day and rarely did I come back dry!

A dagger board boat you can flip...and they are designed to be able to do that. A fixed keel boat would have to go though the equivalent of an airplane in thunder storm to knock it over.
 
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Sac Arrow said:
When you start getting in to 20+ cruiser range, just rigging and docking the boat starts to become a lot of work. If you're just looking to do day sailing on a lake, I would look for something light enough you can beach and a couple people can lift on to a trailer. Hobies are nice and fit that bill.
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Sac,

In a previous life I owned a "Shearwater" planing hulled catamaran. It was speedy but had a critical speed at which it took a dive. Fun riding the trapeze till that happened. Fond memories of stopping suddenly and getting dunked. YAHOO!
 
wrbix said:
.....and is there such a thing as a rental market?
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There are rentals in more of the resort destinations but many require a checkout or certification just like a plane rental. There are however sailing clubs that give you access to a few boats just like a flying club would...those are a lot more commonplace to find anywhere with an active sailing community.

That may be a great way to start before jumping into the ownership market.

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Sailing kicks ass! One of my favorite things to do when not flying! If you are looking for a comfortable day sailor I would recommend any of the Catalina Capri boats, they're a great balance for someone who is either a beginner or who wants to push the boat a little harder, bury the rails, etc.

If you are looking for a little more performance, and a disproportionate loss in comfort, than any of the J-Boats are a good pick as well

I personally grew up sailing on father's C&C 40, which wile a great cruising boat for a couple days with good performance is honestly too much boat for a Saturday afternoon on the water
 
upstateny said:
I second http://www.sailboatlistings.com/
Used it to find/sell several boats.

Catalina 22 seems to be everyone's first boat.
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My mom had one of those. Pleasant and easy to sail, but slow. A J/22 is sportier and faster, but a little less comfortable, it all depends on what you want. there's also the Capri 22, which is somewhere in between those two. Hunter-Marlow builds a 22 footer that is more modern in design, but would be more expensive. The name "Hunter 22" covers three different boats, you want the latest one. If it were me, looking for a smallish keelboat to take friends and family, and maybe do some casual racing, I'd look for a Capri 22.

22 feet is a convenient length for a first keelboat, it's big enough to get a group out on but small enough to handle easily.

Tantalum said:
By the way, if you are looking for a slightly more aggressive and un-PC version of PoA but for the sailing world then the forums over at SailingAnarchy can be occasionally fun

http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?/forum/1-sailing-anarchy/
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Sailing Anarchy is inhabited by a bunch of racerheads. If you're just wanting to noodle around out on the lake their advice may be a little skewed in the wrong direction.
 
What a time timely post. I've been reading about sailing and taking the online boating cert course for Maryland.

Not sure where I'm headed but a get-away liveaboard that I could fly to peaks my interest. Some of the trawlers look interesting too.

Good luck with your search.
 
wrbix said:
.....and is there such a thing as a rental market?
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Don't know about day sailers but there are several companies that charter larger keel boats from bases all over the world. For many years now I have chartered Beneteau and Bavaria monohulls in England, the Med region and West Coast NA. It beats the hell out of owning a boat, avoids the cost of positioning it across the Atlantic, and I've never had a boat older than 3 years out of the factory.

Makes for fantastic vacations. A new waterfront view every day. Better than a hotel package by a million miles.

Mistake Not... said:
Took (well, taking, weather set us back a day) a sailing class at a local lake. Holy crap this is fun, and refreshingly devoid of regulation.
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There seem to be a very large number of pilots who also sail (not boating, sailing). Not surprising given the sails are a wing on end. ;)

As for looking for a boat the only two bits of advice I have is: a) Do not buy a lightly rigged boat if you sail in northern USA waters. The rigging of some southern USA boats (e.g. boats designed and built for Florida conditions) will not stand up to a good blow in the Great Lakes, Minnesota, the Pacific Northwest or New England. Squalls will happen, often suddenly, and even a day sailer that loses its rigging is more than a PITA; it can be injurious. & b) Like airplanes, sailboat designs are compromises. Beamy hulls with lots of room for passenger comfort (e.g. Hunters, for example) generally tend to be less exciting to sail than something with a performance hull, that will inevitably be less pure comfort (such as a J-boat). My all time favourite boat was a J-24 owned by one of my brothers. He went on to race bigger and better things, and I "inherited" it. That thing could point up on a close haul better than any other boat I've ever skippered, but overnight trips were like going camping in a Corvette.
 
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GRG55 said:
Don't know about day sailers but there are several companies that charter larger keel boats from bases all over the world. For many years now I have chartered Beneteau and Bavaria monohulls in England, the Med region and West Coast NA. It beats the hell out of owning a boat, avoids the cost of positioning it across the Atlantic, and I've never had a boat older than 3 years out of the factory.
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A local sailing school rents Catalina 22s and a Quickstep 24 as daysailers. If you haven't done our training with them, they require ASA-101 and a checkout. Of course, on weekend days when they have most of their classes, availability of the boats is very limited.

Many years ago, I was a member at a community sailing center. That was a pretty neat setup and geared towards introducing kids to sailing. After you finished ASA-101, taking out the 23ft keelboats was included in the monthly dues. The dues themselves were pretty minimal. There was a work requirement in the winter, but they were not terribly orthodox about it.
 
Mistake Not... said:
Suggestions for something that would be the 172 of sail boats?
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Catalina 22 would be the 172 of sailboats.

weilke said:
Sailboat ownership makes a plane owner look like a financial genious.
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Depends on the boat and the plane. Comparing a Skyhawk to a Catalina 22, the boat is way less expensive. It's less expensive to buy, less expensive to operate, and less expensive to maintain, especially if it's in fresh water. A marina slip is more expensive than a tiedown in most locales, but less expensive than a hangar. A suit of sails lasts a very long time unless you are a hardcore racer, and the rest of the rigging is durable. My father has had a couple of sailboats it the 23 foot range, and about the only maintenance that we had to pay for was to have the boat hauled out and painted every few years. In salt water that happens more frequently. Fuel burn? A Skyhawk is what, 8 gallons per hour? Our little outboard didn't consume 8 gallons per year.
 
FormerHangie said:
Depends on the boat and the plane. Comparing a Skyhawk to a Catalina 22, the boat is way less expensive. It's less expensive to buy, less expensive to operate, and less expensive to maintain, especially if it's in fresh water. A marina slip is more expensive than a tiedown in most locales, but less expensive than a hangar. A suit of sails lasts a very long time unless you are a hardcore racer, and the rest of the rigging is durable. My father has had a couple of sailboats it the 23 foot range, and about the only maintenance that we had to pay for was to have the boat hauled out and painted every few years. In salt water that happens more frequently. Fuel burn? A Skyhawk is what, 8 gallons per hour? Our little outboard didn't consume 8 gallons per year.
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Yes, that class of sailboat can be owned on a budget. And if you know you can't sail for a season, you can just keep it on the trailer and annoy your neighbors with it ;-) There seems to be a bit of an inflection point at 30ft. That's when you need to pay others to do some jobs. You need a crane/travellift to get out of the water and the square footage of things to paint and repair goes up. Also, bathrooms, kitchens, miles of electrical wire to corrode etc.

Of course, as always, this is highly location dependent. A year-around slip in San Diego is going to set you back more than 4 months somewhere in rural Virginia. But then, you also get a lot more use out of a boat in SD.
 
GRG55 said:
Don't know about day sailers but there are several companies that charter larger keel boats from bases all over the world. For many years now I have chartered Beneteau and Bavaria monohulls in England, the Med region and West Coast NA. It beats the hell out of owning a boat, avoids the cost of positioning it across the Atlantic, and I've never had a boat older than 3 years out of the factory.
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Yes, once you get a little water under your keel, do a learning vacation and go to a school and get your bareboat charter cert. I did so a number of years back, it was great fun. Best of all, as GRG above says, you can then charter all over the world. Last year we did the BVIs, next year I'm thinking it's time to visit the western Med/Croatian coast. :yes:
 
My first job at 14 was in a sail loft taking out the trash and race crew on weekends and put my self through University racing IOR boats at the time...my sailing now and need to own a boat is met by bare boating one or twice a year in places like the BVI...I get my fix for a week and give the boat back and spend less than I would for a slip for the boat for a year. I have been doing it long enough and get Owners time for the most part. My kids (Now Adults) think its the best vacation ever and always beg to go along...Its a nice goal to have if you start sailing. I will be on a Sunsail 44 Cat 7-14 August with four queen staterooms and full AC for $3800.00 for the week...back down at the end of October for the cat fight but next year we have a crew for the Interline regatta...which in itself is a bucket list item.
 
Bill Jennings said:
Yes, once you get a little water under your keel, do a learning vacation and go to a school and get your bareboat charter cert. I did so a number of years back, it was great fun. Best of all, as GRG above says, you can then charter all over the world. Last year we did the BVIs, next year I'm thinking it's time to visit the western Med/Croatian coast. :yes:
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Its difficult to find a bad place to sail, but the eastern Med region is particularly lovely, and you will really enjoy it. I went back to that region repeatedly when I lived overseas.

The Dalmation islands off the coast of Croatia have not yet been spoiled with endless hotel developments along the shoreline. Take some time at the beginning or end to explore Dubrovnik on foot.

The Dodecanese islands in the Aegean were another find. Entering the ancient harbour of Rhodes and accidentally discovering the stunningly beautiful Greek island of Simi off the coast of Turkey were two highlights. You may be drawn back yet again to explore the Ionian Sea with it's uncannily consistent anabatic winds every single afternoon.

With a boat you can get to off-beat places the fly-in Northern Europeans cannot. I refer the privacy of swinging on the hook overnight, using the dinghy to get ashore in the evening, as every little island has a least one family run taverna.

Edit added: one other place I highly recommend is the Solent in the summer, off the southern coast of England and the Isle of Wight. If you can time it for Cowes Week, all the better!
 
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