Wake Turbulance on go around

SixPapaCharlie

SixPapaCharlie

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Probably not something that comes up much.
Flying tonight It is dark and moonless, I am sort of 45 degrees-ish north-ish heading south-ish thinking I will get a downwind leg.

There is a Citation 14 miles south.

"I get 6PC, cut your Base in tight cleared to land".
And Hear "Citation, please reduce your speed as much as practical" or something.

Another plane is departing to the north (King air I think).

Well I botch my tight base / diving at the threshold approach and call Going around. It just wasn't looking good and I was trying to force the plane down and I had setup poorly.

I was somewhat rattled as go arounds tend to be a quick decision and as I am climbing upwind, I rock left and then rock right. That startled me. I had hit the wake from the previously departing plane.

Continued my pattern and landed just fine. But had never considered hitting wake on a go around. Something to think about as you are already solving a somewhat unexpected problem quickly and then the bottom drops out all the sudden.

First time I have been in the plane just thinking "I really want to be on the ground right now."

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it was all your imagination
 
Damn. A four engine Citation. That thing must haul. ;)

Anyway... At KAPA when they ask me to do that, I'll immediately ask to land long. King Air depature notwithstanding, if I have to aim for the numbers sideways, the new aim point for landing is somewhere around the location of the King Air in your drawing.

But we also have 10,000 of runway to play with and I only need about 300-600' of it depending on weight and density altitude, less if I stand on the brakes. ;)

I'll land "way over there" midfield and the Citation won't be anywhere near running up my butt.

(I'm guessing you're on a fairly good sized runway also if the King Airs and jets are playing there too, but I don't know what distances you need for that plastic airplane with the shooing cart on the nose.) ;)

Heck in your airplane I thought you'd just say "unable! Pulling the chute!" LOL. ;) :)
 
You can hit a wake pretty much anywhere. A couple weeks ago I got...
tower: "Cessna 345, traffic 3 o'clock, same altitude, a Pilatus"
Me: "Traffic in sight"
tower: "good, follow the Pilatus and make right traffic"

A few seconds later, *thump* *thump*. Not enough for an upset but enough to know that I should have known better.
 
My flight instructor flies a regional jet for one of the airlines and was on an approach in IMC when they got suddenly rolled about 45degrees. They called ATC to figure out what happened. Turns out they were 3 miles in trail of an A380. They were still miles out early in the approach, and they were far enough separated that they didn't expect it to be an issue, but it was.
 
StinkBug said:
My flight instructor flies a regional jet for one of the airlines and was on an approach in IMC when they got suddenly rolled about 45degrees. They called ATC to figure out what happened. Turns out they were 3 miles in trail of an A380. They were still miles out early in the approach, and they were far enough separated that they didn't expect it to be an issue, but it was.
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Heck.... I wouldn't get within 10 miles of a A-380...:no::no:.


And to BrYan.... I have had the exact same thing happen to me on a go around.... It did get my attention..:yikes:
 
I've hit my own wake doing ground reference maneuvers, especially steep turns. Bump, bump!
 
denverpilot said:
Damn. A four engine Citation. That thing must haul. ;)

Anyway... At KAPA when they ask me to do that, I'll immediately ask to land long. King Air depature notwithstanding, if I have to aim for the numbers sideways, the new aim point for landing is somewhere around the location of the King Air in your drawing.

But we also have 10,000 of runway to play with and I only need about 300-600' of it depending on weight and density altitude, less if I stand on the brakes. ;)

I'll land "way over there" midfield and the Citation won't be anywhere near running up my butt.

(I'm guessing you're on a fairly good sized runway also if the King Airs and jets are playing there too, but I don't know what distances you need for that plastic airplane with the shooing cart on the nose.) ;)

Heck in your airplane I thought you'd just say "unable! Pulling the chute!" LOL. ;) :)
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He also asked me to expedite my turn off by the 1st or 2nd taxi way if possible due to Mr. Citation. It was all a little hopeful.

Mr. Cirrus does not like to be forced to do anything. He likes to be negotiated with.
 
StinkBug said:
My flight instructor flies a regional jet for one of the airlines and was on an approach in IMC when they got suddenly rolled about 45degrees. They called ATC to figure out what happened. Turns out they were 3 miles in trail of an A380. They were still miles out early in the approach, and they were far enough separated that they didn't expect it to be an issue, but it was.
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Same runway, he should have been 5 miles in trail for wake turbulence.
 
I'd decline a modified approach if I wasn't comfortable with it.

I routinely fly under 747s, 737s, and military transport and fighters. The scariest wake turbulence I ever experienced was in trail of a C-206 on floats, mostly because I didn't expect it. Live and learn.
 
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I got it coming out of San Jose one night behind a Boeing of some flavor I can't recall. I was in a Citabria, just after dark they had me on a para runway, but turning back across the main runway, and I have no idea why. So I make my upwind turn, and a few seconds later whoa!, hey, no acro below 3500'. I had to really stir the pot for a bit. I was going to get on the radio and complain but nothing to do about it now. There was that second or so at full aileron deflection and still going the wrong way roll that I considered just pulling the stick and rolling it, but discretion won out and I got it back right side up.

Un-fun when you don't expect it.
 
Unless I had to pee real bad, I think I would have let the Citation go ahead of me. That looked like a tight turn with a get down and get off. I can usually do two of the three but not all three.
When I do get a get down and get off, I try to hit a spot that will allow me to slow just enough to make the turn off. Something worth practicing if you use an airport with allot of traffic.
 
StinkBug said:
My flight instructor flies a regional jet for one of the airlines and was on an approach in IMC when they got suddenly rolled about 45degrees. They called ATC to figure out what happened. Turns out they were 3 miles in trail of an A380. They were still miles out early in the approach, and they were far enough separated that they didn't expect it to be an issue, but it was.
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I'm amazed how frequently we hit wake flying the CRJ. Yesterday they cleared a UPS 747 for takeoff when we were on a five mile or so final. The controller had to remind him to get going as he didn't react immediately. He finally rolled but I was poised for a go around. He lifted 3/4 down the 10,000' runway. I commented I'd be down and off the runway well before that. Over the threshold he got jostled pretty good....from the turbine wash! I hadn't thought about that, as I was focused on the wing tip vortices.
 
Velocity173 said:
You guys use additional sep for 380s?



Edit: Man, I guess you do have additional sep. call them "Super" as well. Biggest I worked were C-5 so it was just "heavy."



http://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Notice/N7110.582.pdf
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The minimums (for a lot of aircraft) are a lot less now.

I used to get an operational error if I allowed an SR22 less than 4 miles behind a CRJ. Now it's considered "too much room."

But an SR22 is now 7 miles behind a B747, rather than the old 6.

Yes. One mile means a lot.
 
MarkZ said:
The minimums (for a lot of aircraft) are a lot less now.

I used to get an operational error if I allowed an SR22 less than 4 miles behind a CRJ. Now it's considered "too much room."

But an SR22 is now 7 miles behind a B747, rather than the old 6.

Yes. One mile means a lot.
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How many categories are there now?
 
Seanaldinho said:
How many categories are there now?
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Wake RECAT rules changed the categories from five (small, large, 757, heavy, super) to six (category A to F).

It has not been implemented in all facilities yet, but many of the major ones (C90, A80, N90) and the big cargo facilities like SDF and MEM use wake RECAT.
 
MarkZ said:
Wake RECAT rules changed the categories from five (small, large, 757, heavy, super) to six (category A to F).

It has not been implemented in all facilities yet, but many of the major ones (C90, A80, N90) and the big cargo facilities like SDF and MEM use wake RECAT.
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I was aware a change was being made, but had not delved into it yet. How do you think it will play out?
 
Seanaldinho said:
I was aware a change was being made, but had not delved into it yet. How do you think it will play out?
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We are doing it now. It took a few vector sessions to get used to the new spacing requirements, but it can save a lot of miles on final during our heavy push.
 
MarkZ said:
The minimums (for a lot of aircraft) are a lot less now.

I used to get an operational error if I allowed an SR22 less than 4 miles behind a CRJ. Now it's considered "too much room."

But an SR22 is now 7 miles behind a B747, rather than the old 6.

Yes. One mile means a lot.
Click to expand...

About time. There were a lot of excessive situations with small, light turbojets having to be considered "large" along with the heavier turbojets.
 
Velocity173 said:
Same runway, he should have been 5 miles in trail for wake turbulence.
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I could be remembering the number wrong too, he told me about this a couple of months ago just after it happened. Regardless they were in IMC so they were following at whatever distance ATC put them at and still got an upset. May also have been parallel runways.
 
StinkBug said:
I could be remembering the number wrong too, he told me about this a couple of months ago just after it happened. Regardless they were in IMC so they were following at whatever distance ATC put them at and still got an upset. May also have been parallel runways.
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Yeah I bet it was parallel. Mark would know but I think they can get you within 3 miles diagonally on the turn in. Wind from the right direction could blow his wake towards your friend.
 
Seeing that you were not landing at KDTO (you would have been landing 36, not 35 last night), I would have not landed.

If you were in a time warp back to 2007 and it was 35, you would not land since you would not be PIC as you did not have your license.

If your drawing is wrong and you were landing 36 KDTO, I would have landed on taxiway Alpha and told Brenda to shut up since it was for safety and you were PIC.

:D
 
texasag93 said:
Seeing that you were not landing at KDTO (you would have been landing 36, not 35 last night), I would have not landed.

If you were in a time warp back to 2007 and it was 35, you would not land since you would not be PIC as you did not have your license.

If your drawing is wrong and you were landing 36 KDTO, I would have landed on taxiway Alpha and told Brenda to shut up since it was for safety and you were PIC.

:D
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HAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
MarkZ said:
The minimums (for a lot of aircraft) are a lot less now.

I used to get an operational error if I allowed an SR22 less than 4 miles behind a CRJ. Now it's considered "too much room."

But an SR22 is now 7 miles behind a B747, rather than the old 6.

Yes. One mile means a lot.
Click to expand...


Gotta start wedging more airplanes into the same runway so they can say ADS-B was a success. LOL. (Kidding kidding. Well not really...)
 
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