azure
Final Approach
About 10cm, give or take 1cm.
Wait a minute.... ice caps are not melting???
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Old Geek
Pattern Altitude
If there's one thing this thread tells me, it's that pilots should stick to flying airplanes.
PaulS
Touchdown! Greaser!
Gary F
Final Approach
I absolutely agree. That's the big reason I came here, the pristine, unspoiled beauty. People up here tend to respect the environment. There is very little trash or pollution. I don't get the fantasy that we can hop into a spaceship and head to a better life.
Plausible but I'm not certain that it is an adequate explanation.
Tom-D
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Tom-D
I have, it's pretty much rocks and more rocks.
Gary F
Final Approach
Oh no! Somebody sold Al Gore property near the ocean for about $9 million bucks. Poor guy. I hope he can swim.
Former vice president Al Gore and his wife, Tipper, bought a gated $8,875,000 ocean-view villa in Montecito, Calif., where Oprah Winfrey also owns a mansion, the Los Angeles Times reports.
http://content.usatoday.com/communi...lion-montecito-ocean-front-villa/1#.VJ3zedkeo
tlrussell
Pre-takeoff checklist
Why would you feed or care for people that can't survive without help. That is how you resolve the problem.
tlrussell
Pre-takeoff checklist
I'm all for "some"people to leave the earth.
Arrogant is a perception, not a reality, do you consider the Pope arrogant? Doesn't the Pope speak for God as well? Do you think the Pope has better access to God than you or I? All I am doing is passing on information, what you choose to do with that is up to you. It won't hurt you to think on it though.
I'm not hyper focussed on people wealthier than me except to the extent with which the greed they harbor and foist on society affects society. Wealth is not a problem, how the wealth is amassed and what is done with wealth is the problem.
I'm looking in the ONLY place answers lie, because the Earth is a closed loop system that we have outgrown the ability to supply any further.
write-stuff
En-Route
Oh, jeezus, here we go again. Guys, you're being lied to with articles like this. You may like it because they're telling you what you want to hear, but you're still be lied to. Don't be such easy marks.
We are clearly losing glaciation at an accelerating rate and this is a global phenomenon.
I keep hearing this "the climate is changing, it's always been changing" stuff implying that we're in the same old delta-T we've always experienced. And it is just plain wrong. Yes, it has always been changing. But the rate of change in all sorts of measures, oceanic temp, atmospheric temp, global ice levels, oceanic pH, are changing at increasingly faster rates. Stick your heads in the sand all you want. This slope that we're already on is getting slipperier by the year.
We are clearly losing glaciation at an accelerating rate and this is a global phenomenon.
I keep hearing this "the climate is changing, it's always been changing" stuff implying that we're in the same old delta-T we've always experienced. And it is just plain wrong. Yes, it has always been changing. But the rate of change in all sorts of measures, oceanic temp, atmospheric temp, global ice levels, oceanic pH, are changing at increasingly faster rates. Stick your heads in the sand all you want. This slope that we're already on is getting slipperier by the year.
write-stuff
En-Route
Now just why is that arrogant? Hundreds of thousands of preachers, priests, shaman, mullahs, and new profits claim they are speaking for God every frigging day. Odd that they say different things, but they still do it and you apparently don't think THEY are arrogant.
Incidentally, it's highly likely the Moses is an entirely fictional person who never existed.
I don't see how that is the slightest bit more delusional than you thinking that there's an invisible man in the sky listening to your prayers. Sheesh. If your claim that Henning is being delusional is valid, then you fall into the exact same trap.
PaulS
Touchdown! Greaser!
Uh, no they don't.
azure
Final Approach
And that's an easy conclusion to reach, but it shows a lack of analytical thinking. You only asked about the last 50 years, not about whether that average represents a constant trend, a declining trend, or an accelerating trend. As it turns out, there is some evidence that the trend is accelerating.Real danger there of flooding coastal cities.
From NOAA:
tlrussell
Pre-takeoff checklist
The scary part is I'm not telling you anything Moses or Christ didn't tell you and you call it nonsense while you say you are a devout Catholic.What I am telling you needs to happen and what the consequences of action and inaction will be is no different because the information all comes from the same place, God, you just have to listen.
The only thing I say that is any different is being able to give you a how and a why, and that is something they couldn't do. God had to inspire science for that. Well, now we have the information, you just have to look at it from the correct perspective or it makes no sense. Lots of brilliant people have done a lot of amazing experiments in the last hundred odd years. If you look at the results looking to understand everything from the perspective of the cosmos being a huge process reactor, it all comes together beautifully, and it indicates that there definitely is a God, a central intelligence lying as a duality at the core of the multiverse.
The only reason people do not understand God is because they don't want to, because with that understanding comes responsibility to others besides themselves, with that understanding comes a responsibility to everything else in the universe and God directly as well. No more eating the cracker, drinking the wine, and dropping a few bucks in the bowl to absolve their worries their conscience gives them. Christ may have given man a clean slate 2000 years ago, but we did not maintain our part of the bargain, so that crap ain't happening sorry to tell you. You need more than lip service, to accept Christ you have to accept his ways, his thoughts, his acts, as those you put forward as well. It wasn't an "I believe in you so you will save me regardless how much I act against your teachings."
Everybody has a clear channel to God, you just have to tune it in and turn the volume up.
That is enough for me.
You have no evidence of any of this. The amount of time that you can look back on is not even a speck in the scheme of things. Everything you think is self evident is just the situation right now where we happen to be. The whole reason for the word belief is that you have to have it because there is no proof it actually exists. Some things we will never know, yet blowhards will always be there to tell you what the "truth" really is. You can't even talk about it without faith or belief. Nothing you can say on a stupid forum is going to make one solitary difference other than to solidify what people feel about you.
Feeling right or righteous is a sickness, get well.
I'm sure no one will back me up because most people are polite and good. On the positive, I do think you're funny. Funny-sad.
All my life I have had to deal with a close family member who is a genius. I got a Physics degree, he got a Masters. I got my Masters in Mathematics he got a Doctorate in Theology. He has an opinion on everything, the whole family takes bets on the wildest thing they can make him claim. It used to be sad, now it's funny. Just two days ago my younger sister claimed to have a new hobby, painting. They took bets on whether they could get an opinion about brushes out of him, she won. I truly feel sorry for anyone that can't stand to see or here an opinion without having to jump in with a superior claim. I'd say get some help but in my experience it is who you are. Feel free to bloviate, some might argue once or twice. I'll bet real money you lead in one forum stat by a mile, blocked member.
Like most of us here you're probably well educated and an above average citizen. I have a science background and run a 13,000 employee company. I have to make decisions based on reality and empirical evidence. Here is what I do with know-it-all guys. Due to my life's experience with my brother I know what a KIA does to those around him. I go out of my way not to infest my company or my personal time with any.
If I get a world class prick that applies for a job my department heads make me aware of the guy. They bring me printouts of FB, LinkedIn, forums etc. You'd be shocked at the times they use the same exact ID's. Then I call every a headhunter that focuses on my industry and give them the resume. I give them an incentive to place them with my competitors. I have 3 placed right now. Know-it-alls are cancer to a company. People hate them and most businesses let them get too far up the food chain before they realized how bad it is. Good employee are worth their weight in gold and I pay mine that way. Bad one, the same, as long as they go to your competitor.
Feel free to retort but I won't see it, I've had enough of your superior knowledge and life experience. If this is in violation of some rule please feel free to delete, whatever. My night is better just saying it out loud.
Whatever!
PaulS
Touchdown! Greaser!
So you know best what to do with wealth? ............Never mind.
Look, the pope isn't telling us God said we need to move to Pluto so God can create a new species. You are.
I actually do think on what you write, and sometimes you are out there. You are an "idea man", I'll give you credit for that, but some of your ideas are whacked, there is no better description I can think of. And the earth running out of resources, there are too many people, we need to leave to another planet, is one of those whacked ideas.
That said, I think we should be spending more on space exploration and space technology development.
Yes, the best thing to do with wealth is whatever you want, wealth is completely irrelevant to our purpose in life. Wealth is nothing but a mental construct you have been bamboozled into. I have no wealth and live as well as billionairs.
Being bound to this planet can only end in extinction.
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RJM62
Touchdown! Greaser!
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Geek on the Hill
Someone ought to tell NYC Mayor de Blasio and former Mayor Bloomberg, both AGW believers and prominent apologists, and yet both of whom strongly pushed extensive zoning changes to make possible this super-ambitious Waterfront Development Plan in Brooklyn. This is one of several dozen proposed projects in part of The City that should have already have been underwater if St. Al Gore's predictions had been true.
In this Left-wing rag, de Blasio is extensively quoted regarding his plans to combat AGW, which he calls an "existential threat," and which he blames for "rising sea levels, increased temperatures and heat waves, and increasing frequency of intense storms," among other things, including Hurricane Sandy.
Of course, none of these stated concerns sufficiently bother de Blasio to the point of making him at all hesitant to endorse the waterfront projects, just as fellow AGW zealot Bloomberg did before him.
It's pretty puzzling that Bloomberg and de Blasio -- neither one being stupid by a long shot -- are willing to sink billions of dollars into developing land that probably will be underwater before the buildings are finished, if the AGW doctrinal statement statement is to be believed. Apparently the AGW religion has another thing in common with all other religions: hypocrites.
Rich
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Everskyward
I thought Al and Tipper were divorced...
Geico266
Touchdown! Greaser!
Not officially, but they are dating other moon bats.
Irish_Armada
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Irish Armada
(Fact) The climate has changed drastically back and forth since the beginning of time with or without humans, and (likely fact) us humans' CO2 emissions have an indecipherable at worst to very marginal at best impact on that otherwise independent and inevitable temperature change trend. (Opinion) To argue as Lord Gore does that humans are the primary cause of the planets' warming and that we can cure it is hubris at its worst. (Fact) Reality: humans are screwing up the environment through pollution of every kind and (likely fact) the planet surely won't be as pretty or clean or productive as it once was if better solutions for our species' byproducts are not found. (Fact) Protecting and rehabilitating what's left of our most exotically beautiful planet from the waste and resource needs of humans is the core of the larger environmental activist movement and (opinion) somethig to be generally supported. (Opinion) It is a good cause, (fact) albiet a fractured movement. (Fact) There are many loud one-issue groups pushing their respective environmental cause with varied success and failure, e.g. solar panels, e-waste, save the rain forests, electric cars, etc, but (opinion) heretofore no great unifying issue that can bring together and more importantly benefit all causes.
(Fact with dramatic flair and some editorializing) Enter stage left, global warming, now referred more cleverly to as climate change. (Dramatic setup to ultimate conspiracy theory) Imagine an environmental issue so great, so devastating in potential, that it could unite mankind, but more importantly was portrayed as solely caused by our species' activities on the planet. (Cont'd) And if a problem is solely caused by humans, it follows that a mitigation or reversal of those activities can also stop it. (Closer to conspiracy theory now...) And the best part: since every activity ever carried out by man and beast carries with it CO2 emissions, we could righteously curtail the activities of our choosing in furtherance of the righteous pursuit of preventing our otherwise inevitable self destruction. (Even closer) So under the guise of preventing climate change, any previously unsuccessful environmental cause celebre could be pushed again with renewed vigor and newfound regulatory support since it is no longer just a cheaper mothly electric bill, but a panel on my roof that will save New York from drowning.
(Conspiracy theory) This is the climate change movement, the holy grail of environmentalism, where the truth of the "cause and effect" central to the theory and necessary for its myriad solutions is ultimately irrelevant because in the process of trying to prevent calamity, societies will have embraced otherwise "good" environmental measures (see popular activist comic below). (Opinion) This makes the movement itself appear reckless and/or dishonest, because the true cause-effect-solution question has been glossed over, gone unanswered, or fashioned irrelevant since the individual measures they're pushing for are otherwise so benevolent. (Cont'd) This is a huge turnoff to reasonable people, even those who support environmental causes not unlike those that have been attached at the hip to the climate change cause. (Conclusion) Perhaps it is human myopia that has not allowed meritorious environmental causes to succeed in the past, but nontheless, it is wrong to push for those same ends by fabricating a means that is dishonest.
(Fact with dramatic flair and some editorializing) Enter stage left, global warming, now referred more cleverly to as climate change. (Dramatic setup to ultimate conspiracy theory) Imagine an environmental issue so great, so devastating in potential, that it could unite mankind, but more importantly was portrayed as solely caused by our species' activities on the planet. (Cont'd) And if a problem is solely caused by humans, it follows that a mitigation or reversal of those activities can also stop it. (Closer to conspiracy theory now...) And the best part: since every activity ever carried out by man and beast carries with it CO2 emissions, we could righteously curtail the activities of our choosing in furtherance of the righteous pursuit of preventing our otherwise inevitable self destruction. (Even closer) So under the guise of preventing climate change, any previously unsuccessful environmental cause celebre could be pushed again with renewed vigor and newfound regulatory support since it is no longer just a cheaper mothly electric bill, but a panel on my roof that will save New York from drowning.
(Conspiracy theory) This is the climate change movement, the holy grail of environmentalism, where the truth of the "cause and effect" central to the theory and necessary for its myriad solutions is ultimately irrelevant because in the process of trying to prevent calamity, societies will have embraced otherwise "good" environmental measures (see popular activist comic below). (Opinion) This makes the movement itself appear reckless and/or dishonest, because the true cause-effect-solution question has been glossed over, gone unanswered, or fashioned irrelevant since the individual measures they're pushing for are otherwise so benevolent. (Cont'd) This is a huge turnoff to reasonable people, even those who support environmental causes not unlike those that have been attached at the hip to the climate change cause. (Conclusion) Perhaps it is human myopia that has not allowed meritorious environmental causes to succeed in the past, but nontheless, it is wrong to push for those same ends by fabricating a means that is dishonest.
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Fact, it has changed more rapidly since the beginning of the industrial revolution than ever before in the ice record, same goes for the rate of rise of CO2 in the ice record. The geological record is much harder to read, but times that indicate worse conditions also are conjunction with periods of mass extinctions.
azure
Final Approach
But not the fastest in geological history, as a recent study on the PETM shows. Interesting read, with parallels drawn to the current situation.
TEFLONSEAN
Line Up and Wait
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Teflonsean
Aww geeze...not this again...
Wait till the Chinese make another 10 billion people....and find out what Mother Earth has to say.
She keeps plugging along....in her past she has dealt with more CO2 than we as humans could ever deal to her...She actually likes it. Billions of years to her name make this fact.
SINGULARLY WE ARE HARDLY A BLIP ON A MICROSCOPE....WE AS A HUMAN RACE ARE THE EQUIVELENT TO A HEMROID...AN IRRITATION FOR SURE BUT SHE HAS HAD THEM MUCH WORSE IN HER PAST...MOTHER EARTH DOEST GIVE A CRAP WHAT YOU DO.
Keep trying to figure it out until your blue in the face...your life is short and she will keep chugging along.
Wait till the Chinese make another 10 billion people....and find out what Mother Earth has to say.
She keeps plugging along....in her past she has dealt with more CO2 than we as humans could ever deal to her...She actually likes it. Billions of years to her name make this fact.
SINGULARLY WE ARE HARDLY A BLIP ON A MICROSCOPE....WE AS A HUMAN RACE ARE THE EQUIVELENT TO A HEMROID...AN IRRITATION FOR SURE BUT SHE HAS HAD THEM MUCH WORSE IN HER PAST...MOTHER EARTH DOEST GIVE A CRAP WHAT YOU DO.
Keep trying to figure it out until your blue in the face...your life is short and she will keep chugging along.
Florida Cracker
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Florida Cracker
I understand that, but as I said, those periods are linked to mass extinctions.
I think the Pope has the exact same link to God that you, I, and everything in the universe has.
The only way we're going to add even 2 BB more is to change our methodology of using energy resources so we get food and fresh water as a byproduct of our energy consumption.You're right, nature doesn't give a crap about us and we are a major hemmoroid. The though that we will be able to just keep raping and pillaging the planet and not get spanked by nature for it. There's a dozen things coming together, within 20 years the hemmoroid that is us will either go away of its own accord, or Islam will exact surgery on us.
azure
Final Approach
Most are, but the interesting thing is, the PETM is not. It must have been quite unpleasant to live through, and many new species emerged including early primates. But for some reason, no mass extinctions.
Yeah, wasn't that when there were a couple super volcanoes that blew off? And the earth only had to support lesser developed species.
Lindberg
Final Approach
I'm quite thankful for Global Warming. I was taught in school that impending Global Cooling was sure to freeze us all to death. So I guess we fixed that. Mission accomplished! I much prefer the warm weather anyway.
Thing is the energy involved. What warming does is increase the volatility of weather, driving higher highs which will lead to lower lows.
The real problem though is we are losing fresh water. The atmospheric temps don't really mean anything except to see the range of temps.
Gary F
Final Approach
If you say so. Fair trade in my opinion.
How are we losing fresh water? I must be really smart as I relocated to the vicinity of a substantial supply of the stuff. I just looked out the window and it seems that all 12,100 cubic kilometers is still there. Wanna buy some?
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Ice caps hold the most fresh water on the planet. After it flows into the ocean it requires a lot of energy to desalinate.
Gary F
Final Approach
Fresh water tied up in ice caps is at best a reserve supply of fresh water. I don't know of anybody who is dependent on those for their daily needs.
And our water is actually fit to drink. That's more than I can say for some places I've been.
The entire planet will be in 15 years. Collecting and tankering glacier water off of Greenland and Antarctica is a simple and low cost process, ships already make steam to keep the fuel liquid, it can also be used to dig a sump for a pump and keep the sump filled until the tanker is full. Way cheaper than buying our Great Lakes water back from China as Nestle is selling it to them in bottles.
We could avoid it by using SOFCs to turn Natural Gas into electricity and reclaiming the water for indoor agriculture, but I doubt we will do it. Nobody has the slightest interest in increasing process efficiency in the most critical issues facing mankind. So we will die off of our own stupidity, yay us. Pilots are supposed to be smart, Doctors too, but they just can't seem to want to change anything because they willfully blind themselves to reality as it develops around them.
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I attribute about as much credibility to that as the claim we were going to run out of oil back in the seventies.
azure
Final Approach
Depends on your definition of lesser developed. Certainly there were early mammals then, in fact I think early primates emerged around, if not at, that time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paleocene%E2%80%93Eocene_Thermal_Maximum