VRF departure from a Class C and climbing into Class B

Rebel Lord

Rebel Lord

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Rebel Lord
Hey guys, just passed my Private checkride last week. :) Haven't posted on here since my first solo but I have a question. If Im departing from a Class C(Which I have never done) I used to getting FF from ground Control but class C and B have a clearance frequency. So do I use the Clearance Frequency to set up FF and will they give me clearance into the C and B there?
 
Rebel Lord said:
Hey guys, just passed my Private checkride last week. :) Haven't posted on here since my first solo but I have a question. If Im departing from a Class C(Which I have never done) I used to getting FF from ground Control but class C and B have a clearance frequency. So do I use the Clearance Frequency to set up FF and will they give me clearance into the C and B there?
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ATIS -> Clearance -> Ground -> Tower.

Clearance for FF, and they may or may not give you the Bravo transition. They could tell you to remain clear and vector you away from the upper shelf. Worst case.... ask. Just two people having a conversation. And congrats on the PPL!!
 
Depends on the airport. Usually the ATIS will tell you the answer. Sometimes they'll say contact ground or contact clearance. You'll be good going through Class C but don't bust through Class B unless you have clearance from that controller.
 
MetalCloud said:
ATIS -> Clearance -> Ground -> Tower.

Clearance for FF, and they may or may not give you the Bravo transition. They could tell you to remain clear and vector you away from the upper shelf. Worst case.... ask. Just two people having a conversation. And congrats on the PPL!!
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zFrRmjv.png



This is a good example, its a class D but it has a clearance freq. Its directly under the class B at 2000, I would want to take off and be able to climb to a comfortable altitude, So can I get a clearance into the bravo from the clearance freq?
 
Rebel Lord said:
zFrRmjv.png



This is a good example, its a class D but it has a clearance freq. Its directly under the class B at 2000, I would want to take off and be able to climb to a comfortable altitude, So can I get a clearance into the bravo from the clearance freq?
Click to expand...
Negative. You'd contact the approach controller and they would give you clearance into the B.
 
Whether or not to use CD for VFR departures at Class C is a total dice-throw. Hopefully ATIS will tell you. If it doesn't, call CD and they will hand you off to Ground if that's not what they want. No big deal.

You will almost never get a B clearance from CD, unless you're IFR (and then, it's an IFR clearance) or you're already inside the B surface area. You get that from Approach. And don't count on it.

1900 MSL still puts you some 1400 feet above the highest obstructions.
 
If I were you I would be prepared for not getting a clearance into the bravo. Can you not be comfortable at less than 2000ft for a few miles?
 
Rebel Lord said:
Hey guys, just passed my Private checkride last week. :) Haven't posted on here since my first solo but I have a question. If Im departing from a Class C(Which I have never done) I used to getting FF from ground Control but class C and B have a clearance frequency. So do I use the Clearance Frequency to set up FF and will they give me clearance into the C and B there?
Click to expand...

You should get your Bravo clearance from clearance delivery at the C airport if you will be entering Bravo. They should also give you all your turning vectors after you give them your destination.
 
Croomrider said:
If I were you I would be prepared for not getting a clearance into the bravo. Can you not be comfortable at less than 2000ft for a few miles?
Click to expand...

I mean yes but I like a good margin for error. I guess I'm just scared of the idea of being that close to the bottom of the bravo.
 
Rebel Lord said:
Hey guys, just passed my Private checkride last week. :) Haven't posted on here since my first solo but I have a question. If Im departing from a Class C(Which I have never done) I used to getting FF from ground Control but class C and B have a clearance frequency. So do I use the Clearance Frequency to set up FF and will they give me clearance into the C and B there?
Click to expand...

Unless stated in the ATIS, at any airport with CD I always start with CD in making my FF request. They will simply push you to ground if that is where they want ya absent any other instructions. If my route involves immediately climbing through Bravo, I will make that request as well but the ability to issue that Bravo Clearance will depend on the operating agreement with the adjacent facilities. If I will eventually need a Bravo transition...I wait till I am in contact with approach to make that request. Typically it is the approach controller that will issue that Bravo clearance, not CD, Ground or Tower...but that is not absolute. Never hurts to ask as early as possible in the chain if unfamilair, they will advise otherwise how to proceed. Always remember, to enter Bravo as VFR you need to receive explicit clearance. Never assume you are cleared into Bravo.

To enter Charlie however, if you have established FF on the ground and receive the handoff from Tower to Departure...you have met the requirements to enter C or D which is simply to have established and maintained communication with ATC (that has jurisdictional control) unless you have received explicit instructions to remain clear or otherwise. You never need a "clearance" to enter C or D.

In your example above from a Delta, I would expect to remain clear of Bravo until you have been handed off to departure and able to make that request with them...and just for clarification...Approach, Departure, TRACON...all just different names for often the same controller.
 
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Rebel Lord said:
zFrRmjv.png



This is a good example, its a class D but it has a clearance freq. Its directly under the class B at 2000, I would want to take off and be able to climb to a comfortable altitude, So can I get a clearance into the bravo from the clearance freq?
Click to expand...

Specifically at KDWH, coordinate your FF through Ground. You will be told to "remain clear of Bravo until cleared in by Approach" and probably be reminded of this by Tower on your takeoff clearance. Once they hand you off to Approach, they may or may not clear you into the Bravo at some point.
 
Just don't end up like this guy. Although it was a departure from class D, there's a narrow B umbrella (who according to some is iffy in getting a transition) that he wanted to avoid, and in doing so ran smack dab into the side of a mountain. Very sad ordeal all around.
 
He probably wont hit a mountain near Houston.
 
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