VOR Minimum Operational Network (MON)

denverpilot

denverpilot

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If you were wondering how much of the VOR Airway system will be ripped out in lieu of funding NexGen... no need to wonder anymore.

The FAA SatNav group's summer document has all the information you need, including how many VORs will remain operational (target is 497, over 232 in the Mountainous Areas of the Western U.S., 40 in Alaska), and before and after maps of the U.S. Airway system.

http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org...ibrary/satnav/media/SatNavNews_Summer2012.pdf

Approaches are being protected, but the Enroute structure will be pretty much demolished everywhere except at and above 5000' AGL from Denver West, in seven years.

The Airway system pretty much looks like a bomb went off and destroyed most of it East of the Rockies.

The document comes from here:

http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org...nits/techops/navservices/gnss/library/satnav/

For those who say all the goodies of NexGen come "for free"... no. It comes along with destroying the VOR Airway system. Always trade-offs.

Historically it's interesting, too. Much of the VOR Airway system is overlaid over the original lighted beacon Airway system mainly utilized by the early U.S. Airmail system. A lot of route history will be disappearing in this decade.

(Raise your hand if you knew that North Platte, NE was the first lighted airport in the nation.) :)
 
Progress. I turn on my VORs once a year, at the annual.

The lighted airways were amazing. Basically a string of pearls across America's midsection, each light with its own keeper. Iowa City -- where airmail was saved by Jack Knight, making it the birthplace of commercial aviation -- once had a 500 BILLION candlepower beacon! The newspapers of the day had stories of farmers some 35 miles away working by its light.

An amazing era of aviation history, soon to be joined by VORs.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
 
Wow, looks like Ohio gets to keep one VOR. One. No more /A into my home drone.
 
Looks like HGO and AKO out here in Colorado are going bye-bye. BVR was turned off last year, but ForeFlight still thinks it's there.
 
airbornejohnny said:
Newark, NJ had first control tower...
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Yep! and I was in it a few times when I worked at EWR (1986-1994). Wish I had taken some pictures back then:mad2:

I might have to go back and do that, since getting access to it would be no problem for me:)

Also first commercial airport with a hard surface runway.
 
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BVR still on the IFR Low Enroute Chart too, just north of LIMEX intersection which is based off of FQF and has an MRA of 9000' MSL.

Filing IFR into KAPA /A is a pain. The only way to file it is over FQF since that's the only published transition route to the ILS 35R without an ADF to go direct to CASSE.

But the DEN TRACON doesn't really want you over FQF at 8700' when they're landing DEN northbound.

I kept getting asked if I could go direct Centennial. ;)

"No, we're /A (or /U), but I am vector qualified!" is becoming my second most common phrase, right after my callsign. :)
 
redtail said:
Yep! and I was in it a few times when I worked at EWR (1986-1994). Wish I had taken some pictures back then:mad2:

I might have to go back and do that, since getting access to it would be no problem for me:)
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Where did you work there? My dad was with Ops. building 10 (no longer there along with the golf club tower) retired in 96...
Ops moved out to the old North Terminal I think, but building 1 I think is still there...
 
airbornejohnny said:
Where did you work there? My dad was with Ops. building 10 (no longer there along with the golf club tower) retired in 96...
Ops moved out to the old North Terminal I think, but building 1 I think is still there...
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I worked out of bldg 10 also. Port Authority electrical shop. Back then, the PA had helicopters that would land on the roof helipad!

The old tower was part of the "administration bldg" bldg-51
 
Yes if memory serves me, it was bldg-1, then they renumbered it 51. It's a national historic landmark. I left EWR in '94. They have since move the entire bldg to the other side of the airport.
 
redtail said:
I worked out of bldg 10 also. Port Authority electrical shop. Back then, the PA had helicopters that would land on the roof helipad!

The old tower was part of the "administration bldg" bldg-51
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yeah the bow claw used to land up there...got a ride in it when I was 4 I think at Family Day...my first ride in an aircraft! Electric was the same floor as terminal services, right? Or was that a different floor? Long time ago it seems...
 
Good.....

Then someone can no longer tell me, that I'm not performing basic pilot skills, because I don't use VORs. In fact, I haven't used one, for around 18 years now. Never installed Navs in the RV either.

Since most of my mountain flights, tend not to follow VOR airways, I no longer felt the need for VORs, although GPS didn't exist, when I started flying. Never had enough interest in IFR either, because I enjoy the scenery too much. Perhaps when I'm, 70 or so, I'll take it up....again.

Yes, I do much prefer modern day GPS, and associated systems. Have felt that way, ever since I noticed, that there was a better way to avoid mountain terrain, when the chips are suddenly down. And that's in addition to weather overlays, etc.

Never the less, VORs were good for their time, considering the technology is over 60 years old.

L.Adamson
 
Time marches on. I have no particular problem with eliminating VOR's (other than I have a receiver in my plane and hope the ILS systems will remain operative), but I am uncomfortable with no backup system being in place. Based on what I have read, the GPS system is pretty easy to jam. E-Loran would have made a very nice back up system. Hopefully, wiser heads than mine are making good decisions here.
 
I think this is the stupidest thing the FAA could do. Yes, VORs are based on an almost 60 year old tech but its reliable and not SAT BASED! I'm all for technology progression but you need a reliable and proven fall back.

What are you going to do if you get stuck in IMC and the GPS network gets knocked out by a solar flare or worse a enemy country? Yes, the FAA has MON but you might be that poor sap who is stuck 100nm in ANY direction from a VOR or ILS approach.

So we need to keep VORs or at the very least bring back LORAN. A system based on low power AM signals are harder to jam then a barely above the noise floor GPS signal. We have already proven that with the Lightsquared screw up!!!!! GPS receivers can even be fooled into following a fake signal from a low powered mobile platform.

Ok I'm off my soap box.
 
ARFlyer said:
I think this is the stupidest thing the FAA could do. Yes, VORs are based on an almost 60 year old tech but its reliable and not SAT BASED! I'm all for technology progression but you need a reliable and proven fall back.

What are you going to do if you get stuck in IMC and the GPS network gets knocked out by a solar flare or worse a enemy country? Yes, the FAA has MON but you might be that poor sap who is stuck 100nm in ANY direction from a VOR or ILS approach.

So we need to keep VORs or at the very least bring back LORAN. A system based on low power AM signals are harder to jam then a barely above the noise floor GPS signal. We have already proven that with the Lightsquared screw up!!!!! GPS receivers can even be fooled into following a fake signal from a low powered mobile platform.

Ok I'm off my soap box.
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Well, so far, these big solar eruptions haven't done much. And if an enemy is capable of knocking out "all" those satellites, then I don't believe we'll all be routinely flying GA anyway. As to Loran, not hardly. Are we all going to go out, and re-install Loran boxes? You want reliability, then good, because it's the satellite system, that has it, by a good margin. Do remember, it's not just one satellite up there. Your GPS should easily pickup between eight and eleven. That's a good backup.

L.Adamson
 
Even when they are all decommissioned the distinctive looking VOR transmitter antennas will still be used for navigation as VFR landmarks :)
 
Well with this info does that mean by the time I plan on training for my PPL, (five years), could VOR navigation be completely removed from training curriculum?
 
My first impulse is to wonder if it's now possible for some enterprising technical person to develop some sort of navigation device that doesn't rely on satellites.

The existence of GPS was first revealed in 1983. It's just now fully realizing it's potential as a commercial system, but it's not new. Electronics, sensors and computing devices are now 1000s of times more powerful than they were when it was first envisioned.

I just have to believe it's possible to put together a navigation system maybe not accurate enough for an LPV approach, but good for just for getting around. I don't know if it could compete with a government supported system either.

How well the constellation is supported is largely dictated by the military's needs.

I've read physics headlines where researchers were looking at navigation by pulsars.
 
kontiki said:
My first impulse is to wonder if it's now possible for some enterprising technical person to develop some sort of navigation device that doesn't rely on satellites.

The existence of GPS was first revealed in 1983. It's just now fully realizing it's potential as a commercial system, but it's not new. Electronics, sensors and computing devices are now 1000s of times more powerful than they were when it was first envisioned.

I just have to believe it's possible to put together a navigation system maybe not accurate enough for an LPV approach, but good for just for getting around. I don't know if it could compete with a government supported system either.

How well the constellation is supported is largely dictated by the military's needs.

I've read physics headlines where researchers were looking at navigation by pulsars.
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There's tons of ways to navigate that aren't GPS based. The issue is that you can't legally use them IFR. The VOR Airway system is the only thing you can file... (and a couple of NDB based ones) in the U.S. of A. in most light aircraft and a whole lot of smaller commercial aircraft.
 
LJS1993 said:
Well with this info does that mean by the time I plan on training for my PPL, (five years), could VOR navigation be completely removed from training curriculum?
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It's already gone from the sport pilot curriculum. As for the PPL, I passed mine a year ago. There's a few questions on the knowledge test. On my oral, there was a question about voice communications through the VOR and on my checkride, I only had to "tune" a VOR radial and fly towards it with my GPS as my plane is not equiped with a VOR.

So even today the PPL study time for VOR use is pretty much minimal.
 
I'm wondering why the FAA doesn't fund a little bit of R&D to develop a standard miniaturized, self-calibrating new generation VOR transmitter. Stuff like AWOS weather and ADS-B range extension could be incorporated. It's almost ashamed to see all those developed sites go to waste.

Compared with GPS and ADS-B, it's pretty much child's play.
 
denverpilot said:
There's tons of ways to navigate that aren't GPS based. The issue is that you can't legally use them IFR. The VOR Airway system is the only thing you can file... (and a couple of NDB based ones) in the U.S. of A. in most light aircraft and a whole lot of smaller commercial aircraft.
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You are right of course. The concept just doesn't feel right to me yet. I'm still learning about the legacy gear.

I don't see a down side operationally. The radio stack in most of the aircraft out there for sale depreciates faster and faster lately.

A lot of that gear will be worth $0 dollars by Jan 2020 (the ADS-B deadline).
 
I did briefly consider that the ILS is still a good Cat 1 approach, if we could just cobble some IFR approved method together for getting to the IAP, folks might stretch it.

That solution doesn't provide any non-precision approach capability where the VORs are decommissioned.

It's probably still better to pull all the old stuff and upgrade.
 
The thing is most of the VOR approaches now have GPS overlays - and they'll all be overlaid by the time we get there -

its gonna be pretty hard to get a VOR check in some places - I'm sure the VORs will have GPS 'intersections' added to where they used to be -

they may have to substitute ILS approaches in visual conditions for the VOR check in some areas
 
Interesting approach, and at first examination I can't find any major flaws in their reasoning. But, they'll probably have to modify the minimum fuel requirements to allow for the potential extra flying distance in the event of an outage...

I'd imagine that AOPA will be picking through it and also asking members how they'll be affected, same as they did with NDB's several years ago.
 
The "designed for above 5000' AGL coverage" is interesting too, in the Rockies. FL 190 to receive?

All those airways that look "intact" in the West aren't really if that's the 5000' AGL airway map.

Obviously they're generalizing. No one will have to be at 5000' AGL to receive a VOR 25 miles away. But then those long distances inbetween become a problem in high terrain areas.
 
denverpilot said:
The "designed for above 5000' AGL coverage" is interesting too, in the Rockies. FL 190 to receive?

All those airways that look "intact" in the West aren't really if that's the 5000' AGL airway map.

Obviously they're generalizing. No one will have to be at 5000' AGL to receive a VOR 25 miles away. But then those long distances inbetween become a problem in high terrain areas.
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Nate, I took it to mean 5000 AGL outside of the Mountain West Area or whatever they called it. I think the reason they're leaving the network intact in the mountains is precisely because of the difficulty some planes have climbing that high in that area. Hell, I flew airways for the first few hundred miles out of Washington last month despite being in a bird that later climbed to FL190 - It gave me a chance to get stabilized in cruise, double-check the heck out of everything (new airplane to me), and THEN mess with getting the oxygen flowing properly and checked out before initiating a further climb.

Airways are useful near the big rocks! :yes:
 
Like most docs written by FAA it's impossible to say what they mean, since it's written badly.

By the letter of the document, you'd assume they think VORs are only receivable above 5000' AGL. Hahaha.

We shall see. I'm not going to hold my breath on their technical writing ability getting any better. ;)
 
denverpilot said:
Like most docs written by FAA it's impossible to say what they mean, since it's written badly.

By the letter of the document, you'd assume they think VORs are only receivable above 5000' AGL. Hahaha.

We shall see. I'm not going to hold my breath on their technical writing ability getting any better. ;)
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I understood it ok... Then again, I have no problem understanding the FAR's either. Maybe I'm just wired funny. :goofy:
 
kontiki said:
My first impulse is to wonder if it's now possible for some enterprising technical person to develop some sort of navigation device that doesn't rely on satellites.

The existence of GPS was first revealed in 1983. It's just now fully realizing it's potential as a commercial system, but it's not new. Electronics, sensors and computing devices are now 1000s of times more powerful than they were when it was first envisioned.

I just have to believe it's possible to put together a navigation system maybe not accurate enough for an LPV approach, but good for just for getting around. I don't know if it could compete with a government supported system either.
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Maybe we could call it 'loran'.

Sent via teletype
 
Putting all their eggs in one basket. A basket hung in space impossible to repair. Just doesn't seem terribly wise.
 
steingar said:
Putting all their eggs in one basket. A basket hung in space impossible to repair. Just doesn't seem terribly wise.
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We have been spoiled by the overlap in technology. For most of the history of aviation there have only been one primary nav method with questionable backup solutions. Only recently have we realistically had three (VOR, GPS and Loran).
Also consider, DoD keeps replacing the GPS constellation, and eventually the FAA will add the Europe Galileo system as a fallback. I do not see the FAA ever approving the Russian one though.

Tim
 
Does this mean no more making fun of "children of the magenta line," which I am. Doesn't mean I can't navigate via vor's, but rarely do. I used to put in a vor that was close to my route for back up, however I have never needed it and have stopped doing it.
 
I tune in my VOR occasionally just to see if it works and if the GPS and it jibe...so far, they do.
 
I'm going to buy up as much ADF equipment as possible.
When the space alien invasion/killer asteroid sweeps into orbit and destroys the GPS satellites, I'm going to make a killing, you just wait and see.
 
Since this necrothread has been revived, I'll just put in that I still try to do VOR checks every 30 days, just in case I need to use them, and I do keep my Sandel's bearing pointers tuned to a couple on long cross countries, just for added situational awareness. But I may stop doing that soon (the bearing pointers thing, not the VOR checks), as with ForeFlight and even the map page on my 480, they add little to my SA.
 
Very sad to see VOR's go. Guess I will do as much VOR flying as I can before they are gone
 
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