VFR pilot and ownership

At some number of hours, owning becomes less expensive than renting. Somewhere around 100 per year. But OWNING one of your own anything (skiis, golf clubs, musical instrument, house, car etc) has advantages. Like someone said, "I bought an airplane so I could leave my sunglasses, logbook and charts in the airplane. Nuff said."
 
Flyfeld said:
I would have to have a GPS like a Garmin etc, I have flown G1000 glass and really like traffic not that I would spend the coin on the G1000 but a 430 or better would be in the cards.
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You do not need a 430 to fly VFR. You don't need a panel mount GPS at all. The portables and iPad apps are more than capable. You can also vent get XM weather on Foreflight if you really have that need.
 
GRG55 said:
You do not need a 430 to fly VFR.
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No, but many of us are recommending a 430 or better for the OP in a pruchase if IFR is even a possibility down the road as he indicated and it is going to be a regularly flown long XC machine.

Buy once, cry once.
 
Yeah it costs a fortune to get anything new installed in the panel, better to buy something with everything you might want down the line now than have to pay to put it in later.
 
Not all airplane owners are instrument rated, and not all airplanes are approved for instrument flying. If owning an airplane is what you want to do and within your budget, go buy one and enjoy it. Also, buy the airplane that you want, and you think fits your interests and goals, not what someone tells you that you want.

As far as instrument flying goes in light airplanes, it's overrated. I've flown all over the US and part of Canada and can probably count on one hand how many flights I've taken that were made possible due to having an instrument rating. Some of those trips were taken in VFR only airplanes too, so an instrument rating would have done no good. In my area summer brings thunderstorms and winter brings ice, neither of which the typical small airplane is really equipped to handle.
 
VFR with nearly 400 hrs since 2008. I fly an IFR equipped RV-10 that my family helped build in our garage. I will probably never get my IFR ticket, as I am self-employed and rarely fly more than 25 hrs/yr right now. I wanted to be IFR equipped for better resell, a coupled autopilot, safety and just in case I ever wanted to get my ticket. Like Cowman and others, we have been stuck on ONE FL trip for 4 days waiting on TS. I would say we have made 80% of our trips. Only because we can climb up and over some weather systems(16,500' max so far), our schedule is flexible and also due to the 160 kt cruise we can get around systems or mountains quickly. Good luck in your search for a plane. We are the 1%'ers.
 
I flew all over Alaska VFR by pilotage, dead reckoning and with a hand held GPS. Not one made for aviation, but one that hunters used to find their truck/snow machine/dog sled after the hunt. I had to find the coordinates of where I wanted to go and plug them in. I think I paid 49.99 for it. And these planes were barely VFR equipped. We flew them day and night VFR, marginal VFR and less.

Your question was should you buy a plane while not instrument rated. Yes, many others fly the same way. You just need to really learn weather and plan for unexpected wx stops. In other words don't be in a hurry, and have fun..!!!
 
RV10flyer said:
VFR with nearly 400 hrs since 2008. I fly an IFR equipped RV-10 that my family helped build in our garage. I will probably never get my IFR ticket, as I am self-employed and rarely fly more than 25 hrs/yr right now. I wanted to be IFR equipped for better resell, a coupled autopilot, safety and just in case I ever wanted to get my ticket. Like Cowman and others, we have been stuck on ONE FL trip for 4 days waiting on TS. I would say we have made 80% of our trips. Only because we can climb up and over some weather systems(16,500' max so far), our schedule is flexible and also due to the 160 kt cruise we can get around systems or mountains quickly. Good luck in your search for a plane. We are the 1%'ers.
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Yeah, no.

I'm all for VFR, I enjoy it much more, but there is a reason I spent the extra cash to get my last plane with a killer panel. I would have missed a day of work within the last week alone had she not been IFR.

Having the ability to do IMC is huge, it's not 80% of my flying in my plane, that's low level VFR contact flying, but that 20ish percent is huge, those flights are often high priority ones, I won't push weather, but that ability can't be understated.

And as far as "topping weather" the other plane I fly is pressurized and can do nearly 30k, the bad stuff, that thing ain't even topping, so the mid teens and 160kts isn't anything as far as weather avoidance.
 
Like others have mentioned, knowing the weather is very important. I set my limits, stick to them and have made several 180's. We are always prepared to land and walk to town if need be. Makes for some great stories. I do not mess with ice, thunderstorms or scud running.
 
Using fore flight with my GPS antenna I put on the dash now works great and is sufficient for what I do, I will probably add the Stratus for enhanced weather awareness. The thing I would like to add is the ability to charge my I Pad and GPS antenna while in flight, portable power or install a couple of USB ports. This may turn out to be an expensive conversation for me, thanks for the great input from people who have been through the process!
 
Flyfeld said:
Using fore flight with my GPS antenna I put on the dash now works great and is sufficient for what I do, I will probably add the Stratus for enhanced weather awareness. The thing I would like to add is the ability to charge my I Pad and GPS antenna while in flight, portable power or install a couple of USB ports. This may turn out to be an expensive conversation for me, thanks for the great input from people who have been through the process!
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What are you flying? I gathered from your OP that you were renting, and most airplanes available for renting have an electrical system and a "cigarette lighter" like that in a car, that you can use for charging your iPad. This usually works quite well for keeping my iPad charged; I just plug it in when I start the engine and keep it on charge for the whole flight.
 
I usually fly a 172 Skyhawk rental, it does not have a cigarette type outlet for charging but that would be easy to add if and when I purchase.
azure said:
What are you flying?
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Flyfeld said:
I usually fly a 172 Skyhawk rental, it does not have a cigarette type outlet for charging but that would be easy to add if and when I purchase.
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You may find that modification in a certified airplane is more expensive than you expect. I use a high capacity rechargeable battery pack - the kind that is often used to recharge cell phones. It more than doubles the time the iPad will operate and keeps that navigation source completely independent of the airplane and its electrical system.
 
One other thing to consider is that you may need to add an ADS-B out unit if you buy. Appareo has one and my avionics guy said he could put in the USB for an iPad when he did the install.
 
I bought my Cherokee 140 after about 10 lessons. The one rental plane in my city was always taken when I was able to fly. I think that if you can afford to rent and take lessons, you can afford to buy. Even with a hangar, I am spending the cost of about 3 rental hours a month (fuel extra). I have not regretted it at all!
 
Hangar rental is kinda like a mortgage payment. At first you think you can't afford it and you'll be totally destitute, but then you adjust to the new normal.

Hey, your kids can work to put themselves through college, right? :)
 
Hangar rental is about $500 monthly in my area, where I am looking to keep also has covered tie downs with electric for about 260 monthly which may be a good alternative for me.
 
TylerSC said:
I bought my Cherokee 140 after about 10 lessons. The one rental plane in my city was always taken when I was able to fly. I think that if you can afford to rent and take lessons, you can afford to buy. Even with a hangar, I am spending the cost of about 3 rental hours a month (fuel extra). I have not regretted it at all!
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I should add that buying a lower-end VFR only plane with basic instruments is very affordable - but I will have to buy another plane to get much practical use out of flying. I am not really flying for practical reasons, just for fun.
 
Flyfeld said:
Hangar rental is about $500 monthly in my area, where I am looking to keep also has covered tie downs with electric for about 260 monthly which may be a good alternative for me.
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That's absolutely insane. Totally insane.

CA somewhere?
 
Bonchie said:
That's absolutely insane. Totally insane.

CA somewhere?
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That.

My big t hangar is less then their tie downs, come to think of it I don't know anyone who pays for tie downs.


Flyfeld said:
I usually fly a 172 Skyhawk rental, it does not have a cigarette type outlet for charging but that would be easy to add if and when I purchase.
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Not sure this is really needed, I fly with my mini and I've never charged it while flying, never had the need, I just charge after I shutdown and get home/hotel/camp/etc
 
The trick is to put the iPad in Airplane Mode, then turn the wireless back on to connect with the Stratus. The cellular and bluetooth are the ones that suck down the battery.

I installed a cigarette lighter in my Archer, and rarely use it. When I do, it doesn't really charge anything, just keeps the level from dropping further. I carry a spare battery pack, just in case, but have also never had to use it.
 
why not just get a used 430WAAS installed down the road? You can get them for about $7k used.
 
One thing I have learned is buy once and try to get something that will fit future missions, in the end thats cheaper than buying and selling several times.This holds true for boats as well as airplanes IMO.
 
GRG55 said:
You may find that modification in a certified airplane is more expensive than you expect. I use a high capacity rechargeable battery pack - the kind that is often used to recharge cell phones. It more than doubles the time the iPad will operate and keeps that navigation source completely independent of the airplane and its electrical system.
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Or sometimes a lot cheaper than you expect. Installing a charge plug in a C150 is a 10 minute job. Same for 152/172 (although it would be 24V not 12V).
 
midcap said:
why not just get a used 430WAAS installed down the road? You can get them for about $7k used.
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The WAASs are going a hair over that on average, plus the nav head, plus the harness, PLUS THE INSTALL.
 
James331 said:
That.

My big t hangar is less then their tie downs, come to think of it I don't know anyone who pays for tie downs.
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There was a nominal fee for tie-downs at KVLL and I'm pretty sure they're not free here either... but yes, I pay less for space in the community hangar here than those tie-downs. $260 for a tie down??!! Absolutely outrageous.
 
mtuomi said:
Or sometimes a lot cheaper than you expect. Installing a charge plug in a C150 is a 10 minute job. Same for 152/172 (although it would be 24V not 12V).
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I hate to risk this thread spiralling down the rabbit hole, but maybe someone should ask Tom-D if this modification to the airplane electrical bus needs to be signed off in the log book. ;)

btw, were you planning to put in a circuit breaker for it, or just run it off any breaker that happens to be under ten minutes to solder on to? :rolleyes:
 
GRG55 said:
I hate to risk this thread spiralling down the rabbit hole, but maybe someone should ask Tom-D if this modification to the airplane electrical bus needs to be signed off in the log book. ;)

btw, were you planning to put in a circuit breaker for it, or just run it off any breaker that happens to be under ten minutes to solder on to? :rolleyes:
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Ain't that hard. Read the AD about it.
Logbook entry would say something like "installed plug A as optional Cessna equipment not originally installed, xyz abc".
 
GRG55 said:
I hate to risk this thread spiralling down the rabbit hole, but maybe someone should ask Tom-D if this modification to the airplane electrical bus needs to be signed off in the log book. ;)

btw, were you planning to put in a circuit breaker for it, or just run it off any breaker that happens to be under ten minutes to solder on to? :rolleyes:
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Of course it needs a log entry. The question beyond that is whether it is a major alteration or not, and if it needs a 337...
 
James331 said:
The WAASs are going a hair over that on average, plus the nav head, plus the harness, PLUS THE INSTALL.
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so about 11k? at least you get new Comm radios too.

At that point though you get to be a follower of the mgenta line :D
 
Nice area. I'm father north and we have a spot in our partnership open so I thought I'd ask.
 
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