VFR Flying a 182 into KLAS

Am I dumb for wanting to fly a 182T into KLAS VFR?

  • Yes

  • No

  • You're probably dumb for other reasons ...


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MetalCloud

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MetalCloud
Yes / no

I realize there are other airports nearby and I know the fees are high. Is silly to pick KLAS over KHND?

Assume fees are not a concern.
 
Last edited:
Edited with a couple parameters...
 
A little more seriously, if your final destination is within walking distance of Atlantic (the FBO) and you aren't staying longer than an overnight then no, it's not dumb.
 
A little more seriously, if your final destination is within walking distance of Atlantic (the FBO) and you aren't staying longer than an overnight then no, it's not dumb.

Now that is good advice. Gee why didn't I search for that exact thing :rolleyes:

I'll be there a few nights. Between the cheaper gas at HND and the cheaper ramp fee, it's probably not worth the hassle to do LAS via VFR
 
You may encounter a delay trying to get in VFR depending on your ETA.
Check ahead for ramp fee and fuel cost. For an overnight, the extra expense may be comparable to a taxi ride from HND or VGT to the strip.

If you are staying more than one night. The extra ramp fees for extra days will eat your savings.
 
Lots of folks go VFR into LAS. They have been known to deny VFR arrivals during peak times so have a backup plan just in case.

Having also done VGT, IMO the convince, proximity and time savings outweighs a few bucks in fees.
 
There are many discussions about flying GA in the KLAS Bravo. I think they mostly boil down to "the controllers aren't all that friendly for VFR Flight Following", "know those transition routes", and "KHND isn't always less expensive when you factor in extra ground transportation costs and time"

They also seem to end with "Have fun"
 
Lots of folks go VFR into LAS. They have been known to deny VFR arrivals during peak times so have a backup plan just in case.
Can you call the tower in advance and reserve a spot, or at least check about peak times to avoid?
 
Been there, done that, it's a easy airport, just a little spendy on the FBO side, but hey it's Vegas, it's build from the sand to be spendy! Always good for a few good shows and a few too many drinks ;)
 
Can you call the tower in advance and reserve a spot, or at least check about peak times to avoid?
You might be able to find the peak times. Pretty much plan anything between 8am to 9pm.
There is a Letter to Airman about practice IFR approaches , best between midnight to about 5am.
Then the morning east coast arrivals start coming in, and GA is done.
 
Can you call the tower in advance and reserve a spot, or at least check about peak times to avoid?

Friday afternoon/evening inbound and Sunday afternoon/evening outbound that place is slammed with everyone headed there for the weekend. Reserving a spot would be IFR, highly doubt you can VFR.

Personally I would just avoid those two windows, plan for LAS...but be ready to divert to VGT or HND with your game plan in your back pocket if you get shooed away at any other time.
 
Question to the Controller guys:

If I'm a VFR pilot destined for a Class B airport, can I be denied landing? I know FF is workload allowing, and Bravo transitions are similar, but I think if I'm VFR and the Bravo airport is VMC and has no active TFR I cannot be turned away.
 
KLAS is easy, and for an overnight usually cheaper than KHND when you take the free shuttle to your hotel.
Get the 7 gallons of their unicorn juice, and they waive the 40 bucks.
 
i've flown my Cherokee into KLAS on an IFR flight plan a couple times. It was very easy and parking at Signature was easy although we were the only piston single there. I personally feel that it is totally worth the money in many instances, especially if you are staying on the strip or southern end of it. It's a quick shuttle to a hotel and the FBO can give you a ride vs 20+ minutes each way from the other airports. Not sure about getting in VFR although I've read it can be done...
 
Question to the Controller guys:

If I'm a VFR pilot destined for a Class B airport, can I be denied landing? I know FF is workload allowing, and Bravo transitions are similar, but I think if I'm VFR and the Bravo airport is VMC and has no active TFR I cannot be turned away.
You may not be turned away, but you may get delays while they try to fit you into the flow.
 
Question to the Controller guys:

If I'm a VFR pilot destined for a Class B airport, can I be denied landing? I know FF is workload allowing, and Bravo transitions are similar, but I think if I'm VFR and the Bravo airport is VMC and has no active TFR I cannot be turned away.
Sure you can.

Cessna 12345. Remain outside of the Bravo.
 
Question to the Controller guys:

If I'm a VFR pilot destined for a Class B airport, can I be denied landing? I know FF is workload allowing, and Bravo transitions are similar, but I think if I'm VFR and the Bravo airport is VMC and has no active TFR I cannot be turned away.

Sure you can.

Cessna 12345. Remain outside of the Bravo.

You may not be turned away, but you may get delays while they try to fit you into the flow.

Or...

"Circle southwest of X. Expect about a one hour delay. If we can work you in sooner, we will, but don't hold your breath."

Honestly though, even grumpy KLAS can usually squeak you in, if you can keep up and play along with "Fly to landmark... best forward speed... airport is at your X O'clock, seven miles... turn toward the airport expect runway Y... best forward speed.... traffic is a Boeing 737 five miles in trail... cleared to land... get off my runway... expedite... at next intersection."

They're much grumpier to aircraft not landing KLAS in my experience, trying to keep you out of the way of their arrivals and departures, than just shuffling you into the flow.

As long as you're not planning on doing a five mile 65 knot final, KLAS can usually get you in.

Where KLAS gets weird is when you're in their approach or departure airspace (it's a trapped little valley and everyone's coming in and out at nearly the same locations) and they decide to vector you toward mountains at night, and descend you toward them to get you out of the bottom of the Bravo. BTDT going into HND.

Refused the descent too, and told them I had the head on 737 in sight four miles away (only about a million candlepower pointed my way, he was pretty much impossible NOT to see), and I'd descend as soon as I cleared the ridge, but not sooner. They were fine with that, the magic words "traffic in sight" always helps them out.

It's just busy in that valley. They're not trying to be pricks to GA, there's just not a lot of places to put fast airplanes and they tend to overlap the airspace of the surrounding reliever airports.

Common visual points they'll use are the bigger and more famous casinos (Luxor, etc.) for VFR pilots, and the Stratosphere tower, since it's real obvious where those things are. Often used instead of headings, since they know you'll see them just fine out the window.

If they're busy and you start sounding confused on the radio, they'll spin you back out away from LAS in a heartbeat. Just be prepared to follow instructions, and say stuff right, and it'll work out great. Sound confused or miss calls, they'll be worried you're not keeping up, and they'll shoo you away.

Another tip for Vegas... get flight following going way outside the Bravo from Center. Let them know your destination and you'll get handled better than if you go bombing in close to the Bravo and then try. You'll just be another handoff from Center to work into the flow. Even VFR. Just make sure you get cleared into the Bravo before you're in it.
 
Refused the descent too, and told them I had the head on 737 in sight four miles away (only about a million candlepower pointed my way, he was pretty much impossible NOT to see), and I'd descend as soon as I cleared the ridge, but not sooner. They were fine with that, the magic words "traffic in sight" always helps them out.

So I was leaving the Lake Havasu area and when I finally climbed high enough to cross the eastern ridge I was right in the arrival corridor for the 737s going into Lake Havasu. Okay I'm an idiot but it was my first time there. ATC called traffic and I said in sight (at something like 7 miles) and I'll stay at 7,000 which was below him. ATC guy was real happy with the situation. The 737 driver couldn't see me (guess I don't have a million candlepower) and sounded like he didn't believe I had him in sight. He finally saw me when I called "abeam" on freq. LMAO. To be fair, I think forward vis on airliners generally sucks.
 
Another tip for Vegas... get flight following going way outside the Bravo from Center. Let them know your destination and you'll get handled better than if you go bombing in close to the Bravo and then try. You'll just be another handoff from Center to work into the flow. Even VFR. Just make sure you get cleared into the Bravo before you're in it.

Not always so easy. If approaching from the southwest at below O2 altitudes, you'll be behind a mountain to hear KLAS, and too low to hear Joshua Approach (was it Joshua, always forget).

I've never had issues just "showing up" and making a straight in 1L. I feel they are very accommodating for VFR traffic. Way better than some other B's.
 
Yes / no

I realize there are other airports nearby and I know the fees are high. Is silly to pick KLAS over KHND?

Assume fees are not a concern.
If money is no object, go to the closest airport with the best services available. You will likely see some very snazzy FBO's.
 
VGT most def in my opinion.
 
Not always so easy. If approaching from the southwest at below O2 altitudes, you'll be behind a mountain to hear KLAS, and too low to hear Joshua Approach (was it Joshua, always forget).

I've never had issues just "showing up" and making a straight in 1L. I feel they are very accommodating for VFR traffic. Way better than some other B's.
I think there is a small stretch of LAX Center between Joshua and LAS. And sometimes below center radar coverage.
 
I don't want to go to KLAS because I'm a renter. Sitting on the ground waiting for takeoff is costing me $3 a minute. Long taxi, arrival delay = $$
 
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