VFR Cloud Clearances - Gray Area???

mscard88 said:
But.... be careful, MSP FSDO will be watching. :)
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Unless we know the hypothetical camera magnification and the hypothetical size of the hypothetical cloud, or there’s a hypothetical 2000’ tape measure in the frame, you won’t be able to tell the hypothetical distance anyway.

So the video won’t matter.

Hypothetically speaking, of course.
 
Work out the Pythagorean Theorem ... make sure to wear a toga while doing so, and that will give you the gray volume of concern.
 
Sinistar said:
Okay I added a couple key reference points as I guess my diagram was not clear regarding up and down :)

View attachment 68801
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Why wouldn't it look like this, stay out of the red box. And the McDonalds:


upload_2018-11-6_11-12-34.png

Or in other words, if you want to be within 1000 ft above, be 2000 ft horizontal. If you want to be within 500 ft below, be 2000 ft horizontal. If you want to be within 2000 ft horizontal, be 1000 ft above or 500 ft below
 
FlySince9 said:
The answer is very simple... If you are not 500' below it or 1000 feet above it, then be 2000 feet from it!!

So in your diagram, you must be at either of the vertical clearance altitudes before getting any closer than 2000 feet from the cloud
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Dang you typed that in while I was drawing, haha.
 
exncsurfer said:
Why wouldn't it look like this, stay out of the red box. And the McDonalds:


View attachment 68853

Or in other words, if you want to be within 1000 ft above, be 2000 ft horizontal. If you want to be within 500 ft below, be 2000 ft horizontal. If you want to be within 2000 ft horizontal, be 1000 ft above or 500 ft below
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Soooo, a,b,c and d are all not legal to be in VFR.
 
I always forget to bring my laser distance measuring devices when I fly. So I can never really be sure if I am excacly 2000 horizontal, or 1000 above.
 
Maybe some of the brain trust here can answer... what constitutes a cloud?

Some are obvious. Big, opaque, obvious. Others... there's a wisp of water vapor, nothing else near it, able to see through it with no issues... "Cloud" or not? Is there an actual definition in the regs? I didn't find one on 14 CFR 1.1.
 
DaleB said:
Maybe some of the brain trust here can answer... what constitutes a cloud?

Some are obvious. Big, opaque, obvious. Others... there's a wisp of water vapor, nothing else near it, able to see through it with no issues... "Cloud" or not? Is there an actual definition in the regs? I didn't find one on 14 CFR 1.1.
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Generally if you can see through it then it's not a cloud, but ya gots to be careful!
 
Larry in TN said:
Draw the buffer zone around the airplane, instead of around the cloud, and it should be easier to visualize.
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Good idea...but I still get the same ambiguous answer (see revised drawing below)

Hank S said:
The moral of this thread is to be careful flying ti walmart and Mickey D's!
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With this newly revised drawing it is now impossible to go to McDonald's or Walmart :)

But you can no longer make it to heaven :( Hmmm....I wonder if the FAA intended that in 14.CFR.91.155?

Skyrys62 said:
Bo
duh...
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Drawing revised to use a Bonanza...OMG the answer was in the question all along!!!

VFRCloudQuestion3.jpg
 

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Sinistar said:
For this question, lets restrict it to:
  • ASEL
  • Daytime
  • Below 10,000msl
  • Above 1,200agl
  • No SVFR
  • Not within a Bravo, Charlie or Delta airspace.
So 14.CFR.91.155 indicates 500ft below, 1000ft above, 2000ft horizontal.

Can a pilot then fly in the locations A,B,C,D in the diagram?
View attachment 68794
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The glider pilots named in the investigation after they caused my emergency IFR deviation thought they could..
 
Sinistar said:
Good idea...but I still get the same ambiguous answer (see revised drawing below)
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You have to be either 500' below OR 2000' horizontally from the cloud. In your "corners" you are neither.

If clouds are above you have to be either 1000' above OR 2000' horizontally. In your "corners" you are neither.
 
Yes... clouds are not allowed to get within these distances of a Bo.


vfrcloudquestion3-jpg.68903
 
Larry in TN said:
You have to be either 500' below OR 2000' horizontally from the cloud. In your "corners" you are neither.

If clouds are above you have to be either 1000' above OR 2000' horizontally. In your "corners" you are neither.
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Yes you are. There is no cloud next to you or above or below you.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
gsengle said:
Yes you are. There is no cloud next to you or above or below you.
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That's a technical (mis)interpretation.
Actually, in the 'corners' of the drawing, you are busting two clearances at once, both horizontally and vertically.

Imagine a plane flying out of a cloud right into those corners.... you don't want to be there.
 
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