Verifying that a Medical is indeed good to go...

R

Rusty Shackleford

Guest
I was issued a 3rd class medical today after a call by my AME to OKC to discuss a prescription of disqualifying drug that was years ago and very short in duration. He was apparently told that it was at his discretion whether or not to issue based on the information provided. He was asked to fax some supporting documentation that I had brought in to OKC. He faxed my documentation to a 405 area code while I was in the office.

I'm just concerned about a comment he made as I was leaving: "You're good to go, unless FAA decides they need something else."

I asked if he thought that was likely and he said no. I asked if I would get anything affirming that they are satisfied, and he said also no.

Hate to spend more money on training and rentals without knowing for sure that I'm good to go. Is there a mechanism to check on this? What time frame should I allow? Is it true that they will not confirm I'm good...only potentially send me something saying I'm not good?
 
Did he hand you the 3rd class paperwork with his signature? If so, you passed.
 
He did. He signed, I signed, he told me to keep it in my logbook.

Just left it feeling like there was a chance that it'd come with strings attached in the form of FAA followup at some point in the future.
 
Rusty Shackleford said:
He did. He signed, I signed, he told me to keep it in my logbook.

Just left it feeling like there was a chance that it'd come with strings attached in the form of FAA followup at some point in the future.
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Worry about it if the letter shows up.
 
There is always a chance of the medical being kicked back from OKC,wouldn't worry about it you passed.
 
Thanks for the replies.

From FAA's Guide for Aviation Medical Examiners:

"A medical certificate issued by an Examiner is considered to be affirmed as issued unless, within 60 days after date of issuance (date of examination), it is reversed by the Federal Air Surgeon, a RFS, or the Manager, AMCD. However, if the FAA requests additional information from the applicant within 60 days after the issuance, the above named officials have 60 days after receipt of the additional information to reverse the issuance."

So 60 days is the threshold I would need to wait on it if I wanted to be absolutely sure? (Considering fractional ownership/club type scenario for training and do not want to buy in until I'm positive I'm clear).

Thanks again for replies.
 
murphey said:
Did he hand you the 3rd class paperwork with his signature? If so, you passed.
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Not exactly true. You passed today, but the FAA can pull it until you jump through some of their hoops.

In May 2013, I went to an AME and passed a Class III medical. In Aug or September, I got a letter from OKC saying "we cannot approve your application for a 3rd class medical certificate at this time" due to my history with brain surgery. And it started with the medical records. I sent them medical records going back 15 years and after that they wanted me to do some tests (MRI, CAT scan, eye field of vision test). And in the end, I had to do a SODA flight with the FAA anyway.

Took a year to finally get a medical.
 
orange said:
Not exactly true. You passed today, but the FAA can pull it until you jump through some of their hoops.

In May 2013, I went to an AME and passed a Class III medical. In Aug or September, I got a letter from OKC saying "we cannot approve your application for a 3rd class medical certificate at this time" due to my history with brain surgery. And it started with the medical records. I sent them medical records going back 15 years and after that they wanted me to do some tests (MRI, CAT scan, eye field of vision test). And in the end, I had to do a SODA flight with the FAA anyway.

Took a year to finally get a medical.
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How does that jive with the 60days presented in my quote above? That's my concern. I'm not interested in jumping through hoops...especially without warning and after significant time, money and effort have been invested.
 
bbchien said:
Rusty, look, I'm never here to "hold out". But the only way for anyone to know is to be knowledgeable and to review all your documents. That costs something. Your aviation $$s are clearly very dear to you, and you are already committed. I suggest you do NOT spend any $$s on anyone such as me to review and give you a good answer. 60 days will pass very quickly.

The reason it's 60 is that the burden of proof changes to fall on the FAA after 60 days. That is why the agency is tight sphinctered about issuing challenges in the first 60 days.

In fact much of what I do is tell airmen (1) yes you are ready, the application will be sustained, or (2) You're not ready yet. Another huge chunk is when the pilot gets the denial, or the "further information demand letter".
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Sarcasm aside, thanks for the response. I'd think that everyone's $$s, aviation or otherwise, would be dear to them, and at this point I've been issued a medical and will wait for the 60 day window to expire. Perhaps I should have consulted you prior to going to AME, but a consult with the AME prior to actual exam left me feeling pretty confident. His passing comments following the exam about "probably won't hear anything, but..." are what gave me pause, and he did not explain the 60 day window to affirmation by code. Found it in the FAR/AIM earlier today while on my white porcelain reading chair.

§67.407 (c) in part reads: A certificate issued by an aviation medical examiner is considered to be affirmed as issued unless an FAA official named in this paragraph (authorized official) reverses that issuance within 60 days after the date of issuance.

That was the answer to my primary concern. My AME had me thinking it was a never closing window of time where the FAA might decide to reverse things or ask for more info. Again, in spite of the sarcasm, (if I'm detecting it correctly...apologies if you were being genuine) I hope with the holidays, 60 days will indeed pass very quickly.

 
bbchien said:
Would you point out where I have been sarcastic?
Jay_us, no good deed ever goes unpunished at this board.
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Your first paragraph struck me as sarcastic. I read it to be saying that the smart money would have been on paying you to review my files. I apologize. I apparently misread, or more accurately read too much into it. Danger of the single dimension nature of internet communication. I genuinely meant "thank you for the answer", in spite of the perceived sarcasm. No harm or ill will intended.
 
Rusty Shackleford said:
He did. He signed, I signed, he told me to keep it in my logbook.

Just left it feeling like there was a chance that it'd come with strings attached in the form of FAA followup at some point in the future.
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Congrats!

But I do not keep my medical in my logbook. As a student you may be required to fly with your log book, so that is fine, you'll have your medical with you. As a rated pilot, I do not fly with my logbook, so my medical is in my wallet sandwiched between my certificates.
 
BillTIZ said:
Congrats!

But I do not keep my medical in my logbook. As a student you may be required to fly with your log book, so that is fine, you'll have your medical with you. As a rated pilot, I do not fly with my logbook, so my medical is in my wallet sandwiched between my certificates.
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This. Logbook stays at home and medical is in my wallet
 
Rusty Shackleford said:
How does that jive with the 60days presented in my quote above? That's my concern. I'm not interested in jumping through hoops...especially without warning and after significant time, money and effort have been invested.
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They have to notify you within 60 days but once notified, they can keep sending letters for more information pretty much "forever" if they want to.

We can't tell you any more without knowing what the drug and the diagnosis was that got you the prescription. Example: If the drug prescribed was on the list that the Doc can issue in office and wasn't related to brain function or something similar in the "OMG you have a chance of becoming incapacitated any second", and it was some drug for some temporary medical condition that is long gone, you're likely to never hear a thing. If it's for something on the naughty list like an antidepressant or similar, expect a letter.

That's just my general observation as a pilot. An AME like Bruce or others who regularly handle difficulty cases is far more up to speed on what trips their triggers in OKC these days, and even your own AME should know if they've asked for more information from their own patients who've been on the same drug with the same diagnosis.

This is why, after learning about Doc Bruce's style, I DO NOT LIKE the method most other AMEs use. They do the least possible work in advance and don't PLAN to get a "yes" from FAA right up front, including having the patient do all necessary exams and have all necessary letters from previous docs in hand BEFORE starting the application.

So much easier having a pile of "here's what they're going to want for this condition" DONE prior to even applying than the silly back and forth.

Brice makes these other AMEs look like amateur hour. Seriously. I do so wish there were many many more like him.

jordane93 said:
This. Logbook stays at home and medical is in my wallet
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Yup. Carting the logbook around is only ever done during heavy training when it's needed for CFIs to write in, and then stays home. Too easy to misplace it, have a bag with it inside stolen, all sorts of bad things. If it doesn't need to be at the airport it's locked up somewhere else.
 
piggybacking on the OP's topic - I had my 3rd class exam last month. Today, the FAA database shows that date (MMYY) for the exam, but then includes this line

*** PLEASE CONTACT AAM-300 AT 405-954-4821 FOR MEDICAL INFORMATION ***

Is this something new? I haven't looked at the database in quite a while, but don't recall seeing this comment before.
 
gkainz said:
piggybacking on the OP's topic - I had my 3rd class exam last month. Today, the FAA database shows that date (MMYY) for the exam, but then includes this line

*** PLEASE CONTACT AAM-300 AT 405-954-4821 FOR MEDICAL INFORMATION ***

Is this something new? I haven't looked at the database in quite a while, but don't recall seeing this comment before.
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where do you check this information?
 
OP - you need your medical cert when you solo, are you there yet? if not, dont carry it around with your log book, you will take it out after every flight and chances are that small piece of paper will do a falling leaf on its own and you wont even know it
 
Mine says:

No Medical Available.
*** PLEASE CONTACT AAM-300 AT 405-954-4821 FOR MEDICAL INFORMATION ***

What does it all mean? I'm so depressed.
 
gkainz said:
maybe it's the SI ... I have SI for OSA ...
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It's supposed to be neutral. All it really means is the current version of the database shows there has been an application but there is no medical. It can mean a lot of things, from medical in process to revocation to a delay in the system.

If you have a medical and the confirmed SI in hand, don't worry about it. It's probably just a leftover from when the SI was in process.
 
midlifeflyer said:
It's supposed to be neutral. All it really means is the current version of the database shows there has been an application but there is no medical. It can mean a lot of things, from medical in process to revocation to a delay in the system.

If you have a medical and the confirmed SI in hand, don't worry about it. It's probably just a leftover from when the SI was in process.
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Thanks, Mark. I've had the SI for over 10 years and haven't seen this before. Guess I'll contact my AME next week and ask.
 
Could it also be HIPAA related? The old message about "not valid without SI xxxx" was an information disclosure, it didn't specify what the patient had but it disclosed that they didn't meet the standards for the class that they held.
 
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