Vectors to final (VFR)

RyanB

RyanB

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So I still have this ATL landing daydream brewing in my head. I will be executing it around 12:30a in a few weeks or so. Anyway, arriving VFR from the NW I assume they’ll assign me 8L or 26R. Due to the fact that I am somewhat unfamiliar with the area and it’ll be at night, would it be okay to ask for vectors to final? I know it’s an IFR thing, but I feel like it could be useful for VFR at night into an unfamiliar area too.

Are vectors to final even a thing when flying VFR?

Comments?
 
Go ahead and ask, in that environment, they probably would rather be telling you what to do then having to guess what you are going to do.
 
They’ll most likely give you vectors anyway to follow traffic. Just load an approach into your GPS. It’s a good habit.
 
When I was taking instruction for my private certificate in the mid-sixties in Ogden, Utah, my CFI had me perform a number of non-precision VFR radar surveillance approaches. Approach Control would provide radar vectors to the runway centerline advising me frequently what my altitude should be as I descended for landing. I haven't done one since 1965, so I don't know if it's something that is still available, but it wouldn't hurt to ask. The approach radar was actually located at nearby Hill AFB IIRC.

I just googled "radar surveillance approach" and found this web page which does a nice job of explaining the procedure.

https://www.cfinotebook.net/noteboo.../radar-approaches#surveillance-approach-radar
 
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Stan Cooper said:
When I was taking instruction for my private certificate in the mid-sixties in Ogden, Utah, my CFI had me perform a number of non-precision VFR radar surveillance approaches. Approach Control would provide radar vectors to the runway centerline advising me frequently what my altitude should be as I descended for landing. I haven't done one since 1965, so I don't know if it's something that is still available, but it wouldn't hurt to ask.

I just googled "radar surveillance approach" and found this web page which does a nice job of explaining the procedure.

https://www.cfinotebook.net/noteboo.../radar-approaches#surveillance-approach-radar
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They are. I did one during my private training circa 2014.
 
Yeah I would think when u call them up inbound they’ll tell u where to go.
 
A Radar Approach, either ASR or PAR is a Published Approach just like any other Approach such as ILS, VOR etc. ATC cannot just make one up and give it to you. ATL does not have Radar Approaches.

EDIT: replying to @Stan Cooper 's post #4
 
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Ryanb said:
So I still have this ATL landing daydream brewing in my head. I will be executing it around 12:30a in a few weeks or so. Anyway, arriving VFR from the NW I assume they’ll assign me 8L or 26R. Due to the fact that I am somewhat unfamiliar with the area and it’ll be at night, would it be okay to ask for vectors to final? I know it’s an IFR thing, but I feel like it could be useful for VFR at night into an unfamiliar area too.

Are vectors to final even a thing when flying VFR?

Comments?
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If you feel funny asking for vectors to final just ask for vectors to a straight in. Like said above, they just may do it anyway
 
Just asked a bud at ATL TRACON. Said they’ve got a policy prohibiting practice approaches but on light days after 0030 you can get one in. I guess that means they break their own rules from time to time.;) Said to contact tower (119.1) outside the B to give them a heads up with your request. Depending on who’s working Local, they may or may not clear you into the B and vector you to final. If not, they’ll send you over to TRACON to get your clearance and vectors if you wish. Even though the majority of their inbound stuff is on STARS, a lot still use radar vectors.
 
luvflyin said:
A Radar Approach, either ASR or PAR is a Published Approach just like any other Approach such as ILS, VOR etc. ATC cannot just make one up and give it to you. ATL does not have Radar Approaches.

EDIT: replying to @Stan Cooper 's post #4
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Mea culpa. I guess I shouldn't have used the term "approach."

In 1965, the practice of navigating to an airport by getting radar vectors from a ground radar was part of my private pilot training. It was included to get students familiar with obtaining guidance to an airport in case the student found himself lost. Quoting from my 1965 copy of AC 61-23 Private Pilot's Handbook of Aeronautical Knowledge:

Aid From Radar Stations Any radar station in the general area of a lost airplane will attempt to locate it on the radar screen. The pilot would be requested to make a series of turns or changes of heading that would enable the radar personnel to distinguish his plane from other airplanes on their screen. Listen carefully and follow their instructions. After positive identification by the radar station, the pilot will be notified of his position He can then be given a heading to an airport or any point in the radius coverage of the radar station.
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This was before transponders were common in light aircraft, hence the series of turns for identification. Vectors to the airport were provided from the location of the airplane once it was identified on radar.
 
I got vectored without asking on my PP night flight to CHA. For the life of me, I could not see the airport. They vectored me to get aligned with runway extended centerline and then got me lined up. Very quiet night for them, think they might have been bored.

Now when I fly at night, I play "find the beacon". Getting much better at picking out airports at night.
 
Velocity173 said:
Just asked a bud at ATL TRACON. Said they’ve got a policy prohibiting practice approaches but on light days after 0030 you can get one in. I guess that means they break their own rules from time to time.;) Said to contact tower (119.1) outside the B to give them a heads up with your request. Depending on who’s working Local, they may or may not clear you into the B and vector you to final. If not, they’ll send you over to TRACON to get your clearance and vectors if you wish. Even though the majority of their inbound stuff is on STARS, a lot still use radar vectors.
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Thanks V. Just to be clear, I’m not looking for a practice approach or anything like that, just wanting to do a full-stop taxi back. The purpose for the vectors to final request would be solely to get me lined up if I have trouble getting the field in sight or catching the correct runway. I don’t imagine I would have a problem at all, just thought it might be a good tool to have in my back pocket just in case.

My plan would be to get FF on the way down and once handed off to TRACON give my Bravo request to them.

Thanks for going the extra mile and asking your bud.
 
I've flown over ATL many times, but not landed there. I would imagine they would give you vectors regardless, but at 12:30 am they may just let you do a "visual approach" (i.e. get yourself there) if you report seeing the airport. Being VFR, do you know how to load an approach? It's not hard, but you may not have done it before. Any of them to the runway you are going to should be fine at ATL; ILS or GPS. You really only need the final segment in.
 
Stan Cooper said:
Mea culpa. I guess I shouldn't have used the term "approach."

In 1965, the practice of navigating to an airport by getting radar vectors from a ground radar was part of my private pilot training. It was included to get students familiar with obtaining guidance to an airport in case the student found himself lost. Quoting from my 1965 copy of AC 61-23 Private Pilot's Handbook of Aeronautical Knowledge:



This was before transponders were common in light aircraft, hence the series of turns for identification. Vectors to the airport were provided from the location of the airplane once it was identified on radar.
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Ah. Gotcha. The link you posted was about Radar Approaches so I assumed that where you were flying had a "Surveillance Approach" and that was what you were talking about. I'll bet you did some DF Steers back then also.
 
Ryanb said:
Thanks V. Just to be clear, I’m not looking for a practice approach or anything like that, just wanting to do a full-stop taxi back. The purpose for the vectors to final request would be solely to get me lined up if I have trouble getting the field in sight or catching the correct runway. I don’t imagine I would have a problem at all, just thought it might be a good tool to have in my back pocket just in case.

My plan would be to get FF on the way down and once handed off to TRACON give my Bravo request to them.

Thanks for going the extra mile and asking your bud.
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Also, make sure you get the right runway. They've got 5 parallels.
 
luvflyin said:
Ah. Gotcha. The link you posted was about Radar Approaches so I assumed that where you were flying had a "Surveillance Approach" and that was what you were talking about. I'll bet you did some DF Steers back then also.
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Yes, you're right. My CFI back then (1964) noted in my log "practiced radar surveillance approaches to airport", so this morning I googled "radar surveillance approach" and found that link in post #4. My bad.

...and yep, we did do DF steers using a Narco ADF. Remember Nancy Narco? :)
 
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EdFred said:
Also, make sure you get the right runway. They've got 5 parallels.
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That’s partially why I’m asking my question. Wouldn’t be an issue during the day, but at night I think it’d be helpful in assuring the correct runway.
 
Almost guaranteed you will be on vectors once inside the Bravo because you won't be on a STAR.
 
All this talk about getting vectors to find the airport takes me back 40 years ago when I was working on my PPL, when I was taking lessons out of Lambert-St. Louis (that's another story).

I was coming back from a night solo flight and I couldn't find the airport due to all the city lights.

I notified Tower of my predicament and they raised & lowered the brightness of the runway lights to make it stand out..I felt pretty special :)
 
If you happen to own a reasonably recent Garmin GTN navigator, they have a cool Visual Approach mode that does almost exactly what you're looking for. Being VFR, you can do a similar thing on your iPad...get with an instructor for an hour and I'm sure he can get you up to speed if you don't know how to do it.
 
Vince R said:
If you happen to own a reasonably recent Garmin GTN navigator, they have a cool Visual Approach mode that does almost exactly what you're looking for. Being VFR, you can do a similar thing on your iPad...get with an instructor for an hour and I'm sure he can get you up to speed if you don't know how to do it.
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He’s not asking about doing an approach, he’s asking about being vectored to the airport which I guess I find a little strange. It’s class bravo I think he’s asking about so when you call them up and tell them what you wanna do they are gonna tell u how to do it and that’s pretty much all there is to it. If you’re not sure how to work with atc and you’re not sure how to line up with a runway you probably shouldn’t be flying into a bravo at night for zero reason at all but that’s just me.
 
eman1200 said:
He’s not asking about doing an approach, he’s asking about being vectored to the airport which I guess I find a little strange. It’s class bravo I think he’s asking about so when you call them up and tell them what you wanna do they are gonna tell u how to do it and that’s pretty much all there is to it. If you’re not sure how to work with atc and you’re not sure how to line up with a runway you probably shouldn’t be flying into a bravo at night for zero reason at all but that’s just me.
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Trust me, you better check my temperature before I take off.... leaving the pattern for a 100nm night cross country..what am I nuts??

Nah, I don’t imagine any trouble at all finding the airport or anything like that, I just thought ‘hey, this might be a good idea to have, just in case I need to use it.’ Worse case, I’ll just bring enough gas so I can fly around til day break and then land.
 
On your initial call to approach let them know you are unfamiliar with the local procedures. They should just guide you along. When you get passed over to tower I would reiterate that so there is no confusion.

In my few years of flying out of the Salt Lake bravo I’ve heard tower chastise a pilot once for doing something unexpected because they were not familiar with the local landmarks.
 
I suspect most Class B (and many Class C) approach controllers prefer vectoring VFR aircraft to final without even being asked. It keeps them out of the arrival/departure lanes and helps assure the often-unfamiliar VFR pilot is lined up for the correct runway. Way too easy to go to a relatively simple Class B primary airport like Charlotte and line up for 36C because you an see 36L, when they want you on 36R , let alone one like ATL with 5 runways (and their parallel taxiways) all pointing in the same direction.
 
Ryanb said:
Trust me, you better check my temperature before I take off.... leaving the pattern for a 100nm night cross country..what am I nuts??

Nah, I don’t imagine any trouble at all finding the airport or anything like that, I just thought ‘hey, this might be a good idea to have, just in case I need to use it.’ Worse case, I’ll just bring enough gas so I can fly around til day break and then land.
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Your doing this at O’dark thirty when it’s slow. Maybe they’ll let you do a touch n go on all five runways. You gonna record this?
 
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