Using flight simulation as a stepping stone and affordable means to learning to fly

Re: Using flight simulation as a stepping stone and affordable means to learning to f

Perhaps I don't understand the program, but....
Seeing as though the *sim?* time will not be beneficial to the sport pilot certificate, and sim time will still cost money, won't it increase the total cost of the certificate?
As I said, perhaps I'm missing the big picture.
 
Re: Using flight simulation as a stepping stone and affordable means to learning to f

I don't know what a "desktop ATD" is but if it sits on a desktop it can't be of much use.

This is what I think of when someone says training in a sim. This is where I got my antonov type ratings, albeit in somewhat older models than this photo.

I've seem some simulators for barons & twin cessnas but nothing smaller. For a light single, why not just get in the airplane? there really isn't any other option.

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That looks ancient
 
Re: Using flight simulation as a stepping stone and affordable means to learning to f

It's star trek compared to the AN-24

Lol!!!
It's just those 50's light blue/green seats!!
 
Re: Using flight simulation as a stepping stone and affordable means to learning to f

2 schools of thought:

1. CFIs are super important and serve more than just being a lump of flesh that weighs you down.
2. You are capable of learning yourself and a simulator can help, provided you apply discipline.

The two schools are also separated as "over 40" and "under 40." Those that believe #1 are also generally the ones that lament technology and complain because GPS is so convenient.
 
Re: Using flight simulation as a stepping stone and affordable means to learning to f

The two schools are also separated as "over 40" and "under 40." Those that believe #1 are also generally the ones that lament technology and complain because GPS is so convenient.

Guess I am an outlier as I'm in my 50's. I don't say "These damn kids want it easy, In my day you had to hang around the airport carrying buckets of prop wash around for years before you were allowed to learn anything."


(Apologies to whoever posted that line first LOL)

In the digital world we now live in, it's suicide to remain old school and we need to embrace computers and yes, flight sims as a lead in to GA.
 
Re: Using flight simulation as a stepping stone and affordable means to learning to f

It's not going to save one thin dime on GA training. The model is already out and with impressive sims Redbird, and it's pretty much a failure.
 
Re: Using flight simulation as a stepping stone and affordable means to learning to f

I think a structured sim course like the Gleim or what Wayne is describing has some potential to save some time on flight lessons and time is money but then it may be a wash depending on what you pay for the sim work.

If you were to complete the Gleim Xplane course and then started taking lessons, you may not develop any Stick and rudder skills, but you would know things like which direction the controls go in a X-wind take off.

You would also likely improve your multi tasking skills.
You would actually learn a lot and probably learn it better than if you read it in a ground school book.

Here's where i think it's applicable.

If there is a delay till when you can start flight lessons and you want to have fun and get yourself pumped up for it.

If you want to supplement your lessons with "super ground school" in a low stress environment.
 
Re: Using flight simulation as a stepping stone and affordable means to learning to f

I would like to address the CFI concern and motivation concern...

Yes, ideally, it would be great to use a CFI to facilitate group training and any one-on-one assistance that would be delivered in the virtual pilot learning and training program. However, I'm not sure a CFI is needed at this earlier stage of fueling one's passion for flight and helping one start fulfilling their dream of flying.

Note that Sporty's Learn to Fly course is structured as a self-study program. We would incorporate that learning process into a group setting. Virtual students can easily continue in a self-study mode at home as they choose. Yes, ideally a CFI could help augment the ground school learning process, but I'm not so convinced a CFI would be mandatory. The goal is to provide a solid introduction to the material which I believe can be augmented by a seasoned non-CFI pilot and the Sporty's course.

Likewise, note that Sporty's Sport Pilot Flight Training curriculum (complementing the ground school material) would be utilized to provide the virtual student a solid introduction (Sport Pilot focus only) to actual aircraft orientation, soup-to-nuts flight operation, flight maneuvers, etc. Yes, I would agree a CFI would be ideal for facilitating the flight training process by following the flight curriculum in the virtual environment. However, I don't believe it would be that critical since this whole program is to fuel the enthusiast's passion and help the enthusiast get a basic understanding. Therefore, I believe, again, the flight training process can be facilitated and augmented by a seasoned non-CFI pilot along with some modifications and/or simplifications to the Sporty's curriculum that align with a virtual static environment.

Note: this is not to replace the CFI's appropriate role once someone plunges into the real world of training and development.

Look, once a virtual pilot decides to take the plunge into the real environment (of which, by the way, could happen sometime during their virtual learning process as desired - we wouldn't hold him/her back from stepping over to the real world of training when he/she feels ready or can afford it or wants to move on or whatever the reason...), then he/she would most certainly be reviewing ground school material and flight training plans for the day with their CFI. Yes, it may seem redundant, but I'd bet in most cases the student would be fundamentally better prepared and knowledgeable once a CFI takes over. And we also acknowledge that the student pilot in the real world will most likely need to revisit all material and knowledge learned in the virtual world. But that's okay...reengagement and reinforcement of the fundamentals never hurts anyone!

Also, I agree that having the virtual training in parallel with real training is ideal. Yes, being in a real cockpit is the ultimate motivator to keep someone coming back, especially if their training is not consistent throughout the month. But I believe a steady diet of virtual learning and flying on a weekly basis would keep the juices flowing, especially if you are someone who is passionate enough about your dream of flying. Plus, the virtual world is a safe place to foster one's passion before one makes the plunge into the real deal. It will definitely save someone money and/or help them make a well-informed decision that flying is actually not their cup of tea after all...without spending a lot on the tea! Believe me, this is somewhat of a paradigm shift for some - versus the traditional way of learning to fly. Again, we're only talking about learning and training in a virtual environment oriented to recreational light sport flying. Providing a bridge to the real world!

Speaking of money. The virtual flight "learning and training" program (again, not something the FAA would recognize as being applied to any license requirements) would be structured to be very affordable. In the infamous words of Donald Trump, "believe me!" It will be structured as an affordable monthly membership fee that provides access to group learning and training classes or clinics throughout the week and month, as well as provide limited one-on-one assistance as needed - not unlike say a monthly fitness membership fee.

Thanks again for listening...
 
Re: Using flight simulation as a stepping stone and affordable means to learning to f

Perhaps I don't understand the program, but....
Seeing as though the *sim?* time will not be beneficial to the sport pilot certificate, and sim time will still cost money, won't it increase the total cost of the certificate?
As I said, perhaps I'm missing the big picture.

It's not, 'not beneficial' to a sport pilot, it serves a sport pilot the same as any other. Now the Ultralight pilot won't get much but they will get a reasonable impression of what approach angle equal landings and which ones equal death, so that's an advantage when you teach yourself to fly from scratch.

Consider you can set up a nice PC sim for $1000, that $1000 can buy an infinite number of procedure practices. In a plane it buys you 50 if you plan the flights extremely efficiently with tight procedure into procedure.
 
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Re: Using flight simulation as a stepping stone and affordable means to learning to f

Even with the long posts I still don't grasp your business idea. Taking a ground course and combining it with flight sim exercises isn't fulfilling any gaps in the market place. There are a plethora of products available to an aspiring products, some of which are straight from the FAA and free to download for all.

Likewise you can also buy a $20 joystick and a $20 copy of FSX and fly all you want. As others mentioned there are lessons available that you can use, again many which are free.

You seem sold on the idea which is why you're defending it. However trying to monetize something that already has an extremely low barrier to entry is going to be your biggest challenge. Customer acquisition is always a challenge, but in this case it's amplified by the very niche market you're aiming for... People interested in a sport pilot license who doesn't have the capacity to load a flight sim at home.
 
Re: Using flight simulation as a stepping stone and affordable means to learning to f

I don't know how it will all work as a business idea, but for me, when a lesson is cancelled due to weather like today I'm going to fire up the Gleim Xplane program and at least be thinking about flying.
 
Re: Using flight simulation as a stepping stone and affordable means to learning to f

As you should... Now would you pay a monthly fee to drive somewhere and use someone else's computer?
 
Re: Using flight simulation as a stepping stone and affordable means to learning to f

I don't know how it will all work as a business idea, but for me, when a lesson is cancelled due to weather like today I'm going to fire up the Gleim Xplane program and at least be thinking about flying.

That's what you should do. Thing is, "There's an app for that" already, several in fact. It's not a great idea to spring board a "new idea" that hasn't been new in 20 years, and the market demand developed into the offerings currently available. To try to rehash what dozens have already failed at isn't going to do anybody a whole lot of good.
 
Re: Using flight simulation as a stepping stone and affordable means to learning to f

That's what you should do. Thing is, "There's an app for that" already, several in fact. It's not a great idea to spring board a "new idea" that hasn't been new in 20 years, and the market demand developed into the offerings currently available. To try to rehash what dozens have already failed at isn't going to do anybody a whole lot of good.

Yeah, I see zero benefit to a primary student. Now, for an instrument student strictly as a procedural trainer....
 
Re: Using flight simulation as a stepping stone and affordable means to learning to f

Yeah, I see zero benefit to a primary student. Now, for an instrument student strictly as a procedural trainer....

Navigate by VOR, ADF, Visual Pilotage.... All part of the primary curriculum. The potential benefit to a primary student is limited in scope, and really can be handled in other ways, but the Sim is effective and fun, and if you have a yoke and pedals, builds the hand eye. Instrument training is a much larger part of the PP curriculum now than when I got it as well.


BTW, the PTS is MINIMUM, there is nothing that says you can't learn how to fly an approach during primary training either. I find them handy as hell even in VFR when I'm trying to find an unfamiliar airport in a Megalopolis area. There are some airports tucked away in the middle of cities that I couldn't spot the runway until I was on final.
 
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