Upwind Pattern Entry

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ahypnoz

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ahypnoz
Landing on runway 36 at Peter Prince (2R4) at Milton

I am going on a trip to Pensacola Florida and was planning on landing at Peter Prince (2R4). The airport is surrounded by class c airspace on 3 sides at pattern altitude by Whiting field navel base, one mile on each side.

To enter the pattern for 36 it would seem the safest way would be to fly an upwind entry for 36, then cross wind, left down wind, left base then final instead of flying straight in, especially if someone is in the pattern.

I do not know what the normal pattern entry is at 2R4 for runway 36 and was hoping someone with local knowledge would help.

What would you do?
 
I agree if it is a slow day, straight in would be the easiest, but
What happens if it is a very busy day?

I still think that flying an upwind pattern entry would be the safest, you could see the whole pattern, you would be higher than the cross traffic and better be safer to work your way in the pattern.


I have watched every YouTube video of pilots landing at 2R4, they all come in at a 45 midfield for 18, but I have not seen how anyone enters the pattern for 36.
 
Upwind entries are fine. I'd avoid straight in if any other planes are in the pattern. One strategy when things get crowded is to come in tight behind someone else (there wont be a plane there) then extend for spacing. Don't just announce, LISTEN!
 
Do what you think is the safest for,your abilities,and aircraft.
 
ahypnoz said:
I agree if it is a slow day, straight in would be the easiest, but
What happens if it is a very busy day?

I still think that flying an upwind pattern entry would be the safest, you could see the whole pattern, you would be higher than the cross traffic and better be safer to work your way in the pattern.


I have watched every YouTube video of pilots landing at 2R4, they all come in at a 45 midfield for 18, but I have not seen how anyone enters the pattern for 36.
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Overhead pattern entry would probably be the best choice, and what I would do. Only issue may be that if the pattern is full or someone is long on interval you could get jammed at the North end up against Whitings airspace. In that case you'd have to exit opposite the pattern and try again, or stay safely above pattern altitude and work your way out and try again.
 
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I would probably be taking to Pensecola Appch (Class C) controllers on my way in, and have the CTAF preloaded and monitor in radio 2. That is tight airspace with the airports north and south.

I did not see anything special listed in the AF/D, ah, excuse me, VFR Chart Supplement, about any special restrictions or traffic flow/communications.
 
Take advantage of flight following...your tax dollars at work.

Bob Gardner
 
Palmpilot said:
Request from whom? It appears to be a non-towered field.
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CTAF,
N00Z is on a 5 mile final to 36 Peter Prince, Wait for response, be certain you are on the correct freq, report 4 mile final. etc.
IF/WHEN you see any other nordo traffic, step right and do the up wind go around.
 
BillTIZ said:
I would probably be taking to Pensecola Appch (Class C) controllers on my way in, and have the CTAF preloaded and monitor in radio 2. That is tight airspace with the airports north and south.

I did not see anything special listed in the AF/D, ah, excuse me, VFR Chart Supplement, about any special restrictions or traffic flow/communications.
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I did not find anything special in the " VFR Chart" or the 2 fbo websites or in the comment section on AirNav

That is why I wanted to see what other pilots thought.

(I love to use flight following, at 4 miles from my home airport they will usually say" looks like 4 in the pattern, no one between you and the airport, frequency changed approved)
 
An upwind pattern entry is a fine solution to this problem. Just remember to enter on the non-pattern side if at all possible, so you can keep the runway in sight at all times. Not directly over the runway or someone can climb right into you.
 
If it's a decent sized airport, I'd just go straight in.

The IFR guys seem to do alright with this method ;)
 
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lots of readers over thinking this one :)
 
I just don't understand why anyone would do an upwind entry.

Just fly straight in. It is possible to sequence a straight in even in a busy pattern.
 
unsafervguy said:
overhead break at max speed while eating coleslaw, if that doesnt work, pull the red handle.
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I hope he also followed 6PC's preflight instructional video, with the fuel sample supplement.
 
SkyHog said:
I just don't understand why anyone would do an upwind entry.

Just fly straight in. It is possible to sequence a straight in even in a busy pattern.
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Because you are working your way into the pattern instead of relying on others to work around you. And you get a look at the field and pattern before landing.
 
SkyHog said:
I just don't understand why anyone would do an upwind entry.

Just fly straight in. It is possible to sequence a straight in even in a busy pattern.
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You don't understand... is that because it's all about you? Sequencing a straight in to a busy pattern is possible, but kinda rude and selfish. If the pattern is busy, then it's gonna be really wide since most fly B-52 sized patterns to begin with. Then throw a straight-in arrival to the mix, everyone else has to make room and the pattern gets even wider yet; maybe the guy on base leg has to go around... but hey, if it works for you, then who cares about anyone else.
 
I've never heard or practiced a up wide entry, if its not standard pattern work how will the other aircraft know your intentions?
 
tecprotb said:
I've never heard or practiced a up wide entry, if its not standard pattern work how will the other aircraft know your intentions?
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They don't necessarily need to know your intentions ahead of time, which is one of the advantages over a straight in. You simply fly over slightly offset from the runway and turn downwind on your interval. If you pass someone lifting off, you can call your turn to downwind but he should see you turn and he will take interval on you. If he will make his turn to downwind before you can, you extend and follow him. It works out pretty well.
 
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What does "on the interval" mean?
 
Although I usually don't make straight-ins myself unless I'm on an instrument approach, I don't think ill of those who do, and I yield the right-of-way to them if that's what it takes to avoid a conflict, as required by the regulations.
 
Palmpilot said:
What does "on the interval" mean?
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Sorry, I thought it was a common term. Interval is the spacing you take on the aircraft you are following in the pattern, and in casual language sometimes refers to the aircraft itself.
 
Here's what I would do.....


About 10 miles from the Charlie, call up approach, request vectors and let them get me there. They are going to know the local TP and put you on it.
 
How far out do you call your straight in. In miles, in minutes?
 
The thing is, some pilots in the pattern think they have to pull out and circle because they don't know how fast or when the plane will arrive. Don't really know how long it takes them to get from where they are to the taxiway either. So they pull out to get out of the straight in guys way.

How long does it take to get from midfield downwind to the taxiway?

Frankly, I think straight ins should be called in minutes, not miles....but thats just me, no one does it that way.
 
coloradobluesky said:
The thing is, some pilots in the pattern think they have to pull out and circle because they don't know how fast or when the plane will arrive. Don't really know how long it takes them to get from where they are to the taxiway either. So they pull out to get out of the straight in guys way.

How long does it take to get from midfield downwind to the taxiway?

Frankly, I think straight ins should be called in minutes, not miles....but thats just me, no one does it that way.
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I think that's a good idea, if the pilot involved is able to provide a reasonably accurate estimate.
 
coloradobluesky said:
The thing is, some pilots in the pattern think they have to pull out and circle because they don't know how fast or when the plane will arrive. Don't really know how long it takes them to get from where they are to the taxiway either. So they pull out to get out of the straight in guys way.

How long does it take to get from midfield downwind to the taxiway?

Frankly, I think straight ins should be called in minutes, not miles....but thats just me, no one does it that way.
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Well I guess like everything else, it depends. If someone calls out a 5 mile final, they're going to be anywhere from 2.5 for 120kts and 5 mins for 60kts. In any event, if someone's on a 5 mile final and you're at the hold short, you're gonna be fine. If they're at 1 mile, you better wait.
 
jbDC9 said:
You don't understand... is that because it's all about you? Sequencing a straight in to a busy pattern is possible, but kinda rude and selfish. If the pattern is busy, then it's gonna be really wide since most fly B-52 sized patterns to begin with. Then throw a straight-in arrival to the mix, everyone else has to make room and the pattern gets even wider yet; maybe the guy on base leg has to go around... but hey, if it works for you, then who cares about anyone else.
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That is just silly. You telling me you can't sequence yourself into a straight in without affecting others in the pattern, but you could if you added a bunch of time and turns to it?
 
SkyHog said:
That is just silly. You telling me you can't sequence yourself into a straight in without affecting others in the pattern, but you could if you added a bunch of time and turns to it?
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So being courteous to your fellow pilots in a busy pattern is silly? Consider it from another's perspective; I'm flying in a busy pattern... I'm about to turn base behind a guy turning final... then some dude decides to do a straight-in. Now I have to change my plan and extend out while Mr Self Important who doesn't want any extra time or turns to fit into the traffic flow just barges on through. Gee, thanks.

Yes, I can and have flown straight-in approaches. I've done it when there's been another plane or two in the pattern. But when it gets busy, I don't; I see it as rude and cutting off the other guy.
 
jbDC9 said:
So being courteous to your fellow pilots in a busy pattern is silly? Consider it from another's perspective; I'm flying in a busy pattern... I'm about to turn base behind a guy turning final... then some dude decides to do a straight-in. Now I have to change my plan and extend out while Mr Self Important who doesn't want any extra time or turns to fit into the traffic flow just barges on through. Gee, thanks.

Yes, I can and have flown straight-in approaches. I've done it when there's been another plane or two in the pattern. But when it gets busy, I don't; I see it as rude and cutting off the other guy.
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Then some remedial training is in order so that you can learn how to space your entry so that you don't just cut people off.

Remember all those basic maneuvers that you learned in primary training? Use em.
 
It can depend on traffic, use the radio to state intentions and fit in.

At some airports no one is around to be an issue. The larger worries are geese and other critters on the runway.
 
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