Unwritten rule....

S

SinkorSwim

Pre-takeoff checklist
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St. Charles MO or WDW Fla
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HFC1969
As I begin my CFI studies.... I can't get over the statistic that 90% fail on the first attempt...:yikes:

I can't help but think this is some type of unwritten code with other CFI's...:dunno:
 
SinkorSwim said:
As I begin my CFI studies.... I can't get over the statistic that 90% fail on the first attempt...:yikes:

I can't help but think this is some type of unwritten code with other CFI's...:dunno:
Click to expand...

Fail what? Fail checkride. Fail stage check? I think what you refer to is 90% fail to continue to checkride. So what? So do 90% of incoming freshmen in computer science change majors. No one told them about all the math they needed to get thru the program.
 
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murphey said:
Fail what? Fail checkride. Fail stage check? I think what you refer to is 90% fail to continue to checkride. So what? So do 90% of incoming freshmen in computer science change majors. No one told them about all the math they needed to get thru the program.
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I refer to that 90% of CFI's do not pass the oral/practical on the first try..

I can not find any current FAA results... found some from 2005.. :dunno:
 
SinkorSwim said:
I refer to that 90% of CFI's do not pass the oral/practical on the first try..

I can not find any current FAA results... found some from 2005.. :dunno:
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"90% do not pass" is not the same thing as "90% fail". What percentage of CFI students go on to take the test?
 
While the CFI oral and exam is a challenge (and it should be), my informal sampling of folks who've taken the CFI ride with the Dulles FSDO shows a much higher pass rate than 10%.
 
Rotor&Wing said:
That's not a true statement.
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I hope not...

My question is.... Why is the percentage so much higher for a CFI ride? I can point out mistakes that everyone makes on any of the other rides and the DPE takes pity on them..

I am wondering if the CFI failure is more of a right of passage then anything else.. :dunno:

TMetzinger said:
While the CFI oral and exam is a challenge (and it should be), my informal sampling of folks who've taken the CFI ride with the Dulles FSDO shows a much higher pass rate than 10%.
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I agree.. don't give me the certificate if I don't deserve it or earn it...

Two of STL's elder CFI's quoted me 85% to 90%.. maybe I should go elsewhere for my ride.. :idea:
 
You can ask the local FSDO what their percentage pass rate is for CFI. They know and should be willing to tell you.
They can also tell you what areas the majority of failures fall into.
Hubby recently passed his CFI checkride on the first attempt. He was aware of the areas to be certain about. In his case, he made ABSOLUTELY certain that all of the paperwork on the aircraft was totally up to date and that two mechanics had gone over the plane with a fine-tooth comb. In addition, he made ABSOLUTELY certain that all of his own paperwork was perfect.
Other things as well, but these pieces of trivia got my attention.
 
SinkorSwim said:
I hope not...

My question is.... Why is the percentage so much higher for a CFI ride? I can point out mistakes that everyone makes on any of the other rides and the DPE takes pity on them..

I am wondering if the CFI failure is more of a right of passage then anything else.. :dunno:



I agree.. don't give me the certificate if I don't deserve it or earn it...

Two of STL's elder CFI's quoted me 85% to 90%.. maybe I should go elsewhere for my ride.. :idea:
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Your asking them the wrong question. The question is how many of them don't go on to get their CFI Rating.

Failing the check ride is not the end of the world and does not mean you won't become a CFI. It just means that you and your CFI haven't covered an area adequatly enough to get to the "instructional knowledge" level.

The problem with the CFI it is isn't enough to just know the material, you have to know it well enough to teach and explain it, and there is a lot of material to be able to teach and explain.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL
 
murphey said:
Fail what? Fail checkride. Fail stage check? I think what you refer to is 90% fail to continue to checkride. So what? So do 90% of incoming freshmen in computer science change majors. No one told them about all the math they needed to get thru the program.
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LOL we called the "Information Systems" degree the "Used to be CS" degree.
 
More fail than pass. Just be better than most and you'll have no problem.
 
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jesse said:
More fail than pass. Just be better than most and you'll have no problem.
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I think I am...

My real question is... do FAA chosen DPE's have some sort of code or mind structor going that a CFI needs to be failed on their first attempt? :dunno:

Do a google search on it... wow :yikes: There are tons of threads about not passing on the first attempt.. Is this some sort of snowball affect that started years ago?
 
SinkorSwim said:
I think I am...

My real question is... do FAA chosen DPE's have some sort of code or mind structor going that a CFI needs to be failed on their first attempt? :dunno:

Do a google search on it... wow :yikes: There are tons of threads about not passing on the first attempt.. Is this some sort of snowball affect that started years ago?
Click to expand...
I passed on the first attempt with the FSDO. But the inspector did tell me I was the first he has ever passed on the first attempt.

It's also very common to get stopped because of the airplane. Make SURE it is airworthy and perfect. They inspect the hell out of it and the logs.
 
I don't have any idea if the 10% is true or not,
But I would be happy if it was. The hardest thing for almost any instructor to do is to fail someone that needs to fail. That is one of the hardest things to teach a teacher. If they themselves have experienced failing they will gain a better appreciation of its impact and importance.
 
JOhnH said:
I don't have any idea if the 10% is true or not,
But I would be happy if it was. The hardest thing for almost any instructor to do is to fail someone that needs to fail. That is one of the hardest things to teach a teacher. If they themselves have experienced failing they will gain a better appreciation of its impact and importance.
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Very true. I do not like telling someone that they're going to need to fly some more before I'll sign their IPC or Flight Review. But sometimes it has to be done.
 
SinkorSwim said:
I refer to that 90% of CFI's do not pass the oral/practical on the first try..

I can not find any current FAA results... found some from 2005.. :dunno:
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I'd like to see those data, because it would be news to me. AFAIK, the pass rate in our district is running somewhere around 75% or better, and hasn't dipped much below that for a very long time (if ever).

But it is a rumor I've heard repeated a lot without data to back it.
 
SinkorSwim said:
As I begin my CFI studies.... I can't get over the statistic that 90% fail on the first attempt...:yikes:
Click to expand...

Your statistic appears to be bogus. Take a look at the "Flight Instructor Certificates" rows in tables 19 and 20 and let me know what you see there (You'll need an MS Excel viewer if you don't have Excel; MS has a free one available here):

http://www.faa.gov/data_research/aviation_data_statistics/civil_airmen_statistics/2010/

I can't help but think this is some type of unwritten code with other CFI's...:dunno:
Click to expand...
You're in luck! I have here a list of all those unwritten rules:

.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
 
I have heard the fail rate was 80%, not 90%, however considering the evidence posted that does seem to be bogus.

Jim Logajan said:
Your statistic appears to be bogus. Take a look at the "Flight Instructor Certificates" rows in tables 19 and 20 and let me know what you see there (You'll need an MS Excel viewer if you don't have Excel; MS has a free one available here):

http://www.faa.gov/data_research/aviation_data_statistics/civil_airmen_statistics/2010/
Click to expand...

Interesting table. I am surprised the CFI pass rates between Inspectors and DPE's are basically the same.

Though I am surprised at the 67% pass rate for a ground instructor certificate. :eek: But it's not statistically significant. I am assuming there was some kind of paperwork flaw on that one.
 
dmspilot said:
Interesting table. I am surprised the CFI pass rates between Inspectors and DPE's are basically the same.
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I'm not, considering how careful the FSDO's are about which DPE's they let give initial CFI rides. For example, the one around here is a retired Inspector who used to work in this FSDO.
 
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